Olympics & Nationality

[Galway Eagle]

Dual citizenship countries:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-that-allow-dual-citizenship

More info:
https://citizenpath.com/dual-citizenship-in-the-us/

Hmm interesting. Well I'll happily blame the article that prompted this thread for that one and consider myself an impressionable reader.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I thought the US allowed dual nationality.

My wife and kids are dual citizens of Poland.  Both of my kids were born in the USA.
It helped my older daughter studying in France this semester.  She did not have to pay to obtain a student visa from France as she entered on the Polish Passport. 

[CTWarrior]

Uhhh gang, I don't think you want to go to deep with this one.

In 1976, Butch Lee of our beloved Marquette Warriors competed for Puerto Rico.

While he was born in Puerto Rico, he went to school in New York and was recruited from New York by Coach McGuire.

At the time of the Olympics, he lived in Milwaukee and yet competed for Puerto Rico.

As Marquette folklore goes, Mr. Lee almost single-handedly took down the high and mighty U.S. Olympic Men's Basketball Team. A legendary game that probably was the first time a Marquette guy drove Dean Smith absolutely crazy.

I don't have a problem with someone who didn't make their own country team get a chance elsewhere, like Butch Lee did (I may be wrong, but he may not have even been invited to tryout).  I don't like US citizens competing for other countries as their first choice, but who am I to judge?  They may have good reasons that I don't know or understand.  Anyway, what I think is right and what is fair may be the same thing to me, but may not be to other people.

[Galway Eagle]

I don't have a problem with someone who didn't make their own country team get a chance elsewhere, like Butch Lee did (I may be wrong, but he may not have even been invited to tryout).  I don't like US citizens competing for other countries as their first choice, but who am I to judge?  They may have good reasons that I don't know or understand.  Anyway, what I think is right and what is fair may be the same thing to me, but may not be to other people.

Could you elaborate on this? Is it only if they medal/are favorited?

[CTWarrior]

Could you elaborate on this? Is it only if they medal/are favorited?

I thought I did above.  If they are excluded from their home country team because they didn't make it or weren't invited or something, then certainly I have no problem with someone wanting to go to the Olympics and competing for someone else.  If you are good enough to compete for your country, then you should compete for your country.  And that goes for the hockey guys and the basketball guys.  If you are a citizen of Russia or Nigeria, then play for Russia or Nigeria if they'll have you, not the US.  Just my two cents, I really don't care all that much, especially about the Winter Olympics, which I've watched maybe an hour of so far. 

[Billy Hoyle]

Curious to everyone's thoughts on the various USA born individuals competing for other countries?

What about the various foreign individuals competing for the USA?

How should the Olympics define who you can compete for.

Seems like a bigger deal's being made about it this year than previously because of the Chinese-American athletes, but we benefit from it to (Hakeem Olajuwon)

I prefer the FIFA rules that say once you compete for one country you cannot switch to another. I'm also not a fan of the government fast-tracking citizenship to get individuals on our Olympic team (we've poached a few from Canada) when we have so many stuck in the citizenship queue.

I thought I did above.  If they are excluded from their home country team because they didn't make it or weren't invited or something, then certainly I have no problem with someone wanting to go to the Olympics and competing for someone else.  If you are good enough to compete for your country, then you should compete for your country.  And that goes for the hockey guys and the basketball guys.  If you are a citizen of Russia or Nigeria, then play for Russia or Nigeria if they'll have you, not the US.  Just my two cents, I really don't care all that much, especially about the Winter Olympics, which I've watched maybe an hour of so far. 

My wife is a dual citizen and was going to try and make the national team of a country her parents are from she's lived in for one year of her life because she knew she had no chance at the US team (circumstances took her out of the sport though). I don't have an issue if there is legit citizenship ties.

[forgetful]

Letting athletes from other countries compete for a different nation, strictly so that nation can be better at that sport is reprehensible.

I mean, look at this nations program for recruiting elite runners to win more golds. The US would never do such a thing to get a competitive advantage.

https://theundefeated.com/features/u-s-armys-world-class-athlete-program-puts-runners-on-fast-track-to-citizenship/

https://www.armywcap.com

Let athletes compete for whatever nation the want, and whatever gets them the most benefit for their talents. For the olympics some form of citizenship or at least heritage would make sense. But it is hypocritical to criticize other nations for it.

[Galway Eagle]

I thought I did above.  If they are excluded from their home country team because they didn't make it or weren't invited or something, then certainly I have no problem with someone wanting to go to the Olympics and competing for someone else.  If you are good enough to compete for your country, then you should compete for your country.  And that goes for the hockey guys and the basketball guys.  If you are a citizen of Russia or Nigeria, then play for Russia or Nigeria if they'll have you, not the US.  Just my two cents, I really don't care all that much, especially about the Winter Olympics, which I've watched maybe an hour of so far.

You for sure sort of touched on it but I was more curious about your thoughts on dual citizens or people who might have a choice (puerto Rico, N Ireland) those types of instances was more what I was hoping you'd elaborate on. As you said you don't care and that's cool, I'm just here trying to figure out my own thoughts on the matter and open a dialogue.

[The Sultan]

Or maybe the Olympics should be more about their accomplishments as individuals and less about the countries they represent.

[Uncle Rico]

Or maybe the Olympics should be more about their accomplishments as individuals and less about the countries they represent.

That's a novel idea

[CTWarrior]

You for sure sort of touched on it but I was more curious about your thoughts on dual citizens or people who might have a choice (puerto Rico, N Ireland) those types of instances was more what I was hoping you'd elaborate on. As you said you don't care and that's cool, I'm just here trying to figure out my own thoughts on the matter and open a dialogue.

I never even considered dual citizenship, it never occurred to me.  In that case it should be entirely up to the athlete.  I guess I don't like that someone who is born and raised in one country, used that countries coaches and resources to develop their skills, and has no ties to another country other than ancestry, chooses to play for another country when they would have been welcomed on their home country team.  I think that has enough caveats, though I probably missed a few.

[Galway Eagle]

Or maybe the Olympics should be more about their accomplishments as individuals and less about the countries they represent.

So like a place where athletes don't represent anything but themselves and get paid sponsorships and paid to do so while competing against the other best athletes in the world? If only such a concept existed...

What's the point of Olympics if you take away the country thing? It's just a pro sports festival with Hockey and Basketball headlining each season and a bunch of openers.

[Billy Hoyle]

I never even considered dual citizenship, it never occurred to me.  In that case it should be entirely up to the athlete.  I guess I don't like that someone who is born and raised in one country, used that countries coaches and resources to develop their skills, and has no ties to another country other than ancestry, chooses to play for another country when they would have been welcomed on their home country team.  I think that has enough caveats, though I probably missed a few.

what is your cutoff? Parents are immigrants so you can compete for their country but that's as far back one can go (my wife's situation, though interestingly enough her younger siblings were not eligible for dual citizenship)? Or you can only compete for the country where you were born and raised?

[Sir Lawrence]

So like a place where athletes don't represent anything but themselves and get paid sponsorships and paid to do so while competing against the other best athletes in the world? If only such a concept existed...

What's the point of Olympics if you take away the country thing? It's just a pro sports festival with Hockey and Basketball headlining each season and a bunch of openers.

Oddly enough, from the Olympic Charter: 

The Olympic Games are competitions between athletes in individual or team
events and not between countries. They bring together the athletes selected
by their respective NOCs, whose entries have been accepted by the IOC. They
compete under the technical direction of the IFs concerned.

[Galway Eagle]

Oddly enough, from the Olympic Charter: 

The Olympic Games are competitions between athletes in individual or team
events and not between countries. They bring together the athletes selected
by their respective NOCs, whose entries have been accepted by the IOC. They
compete under the technical direction of the IFs concerned.

Huh interesting. Well I'll just huff right off into a corner now.

[Warriors4ever]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_changes_in_figure_skating#Pairs_and_ice_dancing

I believe the International Skating Union requires residency and that one member of a pair be a citizen, so that applies to things like the Grand Prix and World  Championships, where you can indeed have mixed citizenship for couples. The International Olympic Committee requires one be a national, commonly seen as citizenship - each country gets to determine that part.
If someone can legitimately claim citizenship under a country's rules, so be it. One of the issues with China is that it does not recognize dual citizenship , requiring one to renounce other citizenships, but apparently they have decided not to apply that to the hockey players they recruited, and probably the skier who won the gold medal, who refuses to answer directly, and who knows who else ( though not the figure skater apparently - she did not drive such a hard bargain it seems and maybe jumped the gun...).

[Dr. Blackheart]

Oddly enough, from the Olympic Charter: 

The Olympic Games are competitions between athletes in individual or team
events and not between countries. They bring together the athletes selected
by their respective NOCs, whose entries have been accepted by the IOC. They
compete under the technical direction of the IFs concerned.

Except the IOC limits the number of athletes who can compete in an event by country. Which is why these other athletes country shop.

[warriorchick]

I have dual U.S./German citizenship due to being born on an Army base in Germany to U.S. parents.

If I was an athlete that couldn't qualify for the U.S. Olympic team, but could compete for Germany,  I would do it in a hot second.  I would be sad that I wouldn't be in a U.S. uniform, but attending the Olympics would be an opportunity I would never pass up.

[Galway Eagle]

I have dual U.S./German citizenship due to being born on an Army base in Germany to U.S. parents.

If I was an athlete that couldn't qualify for the U.S. Olympic team, but could compete for Germany,  I would do it in a hot second.  I would be sad that I wouldn't be in a U.S. uniform, but attending the Olympics would be an opportunity I would never pass up.

Yeah that makes sense, I mean you don't seem to have a connection to the country and it's just a perk of life to get you through security faster in the EU?

I have three citizenships, two passports (no point in paying for the Italian one) if I couldn't compete for Ireland or USA I don't think I'd suddenly get the Italian passport if I could qualify for their team. I mean I'd feel fake walking out behind a flag I don't have a connection to, if I medaled I wouldn't know the anthem, etc. but who knows maybe it's those sensibilities that make us be Olympic viewers and not athletes

[Spotcheck Billy]

Don't look too hard at Qatar's upcoming World Cup team.

China's men's hockey team is a better example IMO.

[Galway Eagle]

China's men's hockey team is a better example IMO.

they blatantly recruited anyone of chine ancestry (one guys family came to Canada in the mid 1800s) and couldn't fill a roster so just started grabbing people who play in China but to be fair Qatar also did that, 6-7 players with no real connection to the country (most from Sudan)

[MU82]

Wait ... have the Olympics started?

[JWags85]

they blatantly recruited anyone of chine ancestry (one guys family came to Canada in the mid 1800s) and couldn't fill a roster so just started grabbing people who play in China but to be fair Qatar also did that, 6-7 players with no real connection to the country (most from Sudan)

Oh its better than that, if you play for China's lone KHL team, Kunlan Red Star, congrats, you're now Chinese!  They have a journeyman AHL goalie from Detroit with zero Chinese ancestry, a Canadian Jewish player who actually has an Israeli passport, and my favorite...f*ing Chris Chelios' son, about as Chinese as can be.

As I mentioned with Qatar, its different, most of those African players (Sudan, Algeria, Egypt) came to Qatar when they were young (in their late teens) to play in the Qatari league or for the academies.  Looking through the roster, pretty much everyone had been their either since they were 17-18 or 8-10+ years.  Thats not unreasonable and not abnormal.  Not like the hockey players who have been playing for China for 2 years and come back immediately in the offseason.

[dgies9156]

I have dual U.S./German citizenship due to being born on an Army base in Germany to U.S. parents.

If I was an athlete that couldn't qualify for the U.S. Olympic team, but could compete for Germany,  I would do it in a hot second.  I would be sad that I wouldn't be in a U.S. uniform, but attending the Olympics would be an opportunity I would never pass up.

Ditto for both my children. My daughter was born in Belarus and adopted at Age 2. She is a naturalized American citizen but has a "right of return" granted her by the Republic of Belarus. Not that she'd ever want to return, mind you, but she has dual nationality.

My son also is a naturalized American from far eastern Ukraine. Not sure where he would be granted citizenship -- Ukraine or Russia!!!!!!

I doubt either of my children would want to be associated with their birth countries. Neither of them speak the language, their families and friends are Americans and their lives are here. So, were either to be an Olympian, the only team I could ever see them representing is our's!

[Galway Eagle]

Oh its better than that, if you play for China's lone KHL team, Kunlan Red Star, congrats, you're now Chinese!  They have a journeyman AHL goalie from Detroit with zero Chinese ancestry, a Canadian Jewish player who actually has an Israeli passport, and my favorite...f*ing Chris Chelios' son, about as Chinese as can be.

As I mentioned with Qatar, its different, most of those African players (Sudan, Algeria, Egypt) came to Qatar when they were young (in their late teens) to play in the Qatari league or for the academies.  Looking through the roster, pretty much everyone had been their either since they were 17-18 or 8-10+ years.  Thats not unreasonable and not abnormal.  Not like the hockey players who have been playing for China for 2 years and come back immediately in the offseason.

It's a bit curious that they haven't tried a similar approach with Olympic basketball. I'd imagine that them being good in basketball would be more valuable to them than hockey after all.