Vaccine Misinformation

[MUDPT]

Along those lines, I think there were a couple of studies that initially said in spring 2021 that vaccines significantly reduced transmission.  As Delta came about in Summer 2021, that definitely changed.  There was certainly a "spiking of the football" that the vaccines were a cure all by the Biden administration, but most of the epidemiologists were definitely more reserved. Bottom line: vaccines work, including the new fall boosters.  They protect from severe infection and they also reduce the amount of viral load and chance of transmission. 

[JWags85]

I'm ok with the playing Devil's advocate on this one, it is a reasonable question and one that should be asked, but in this case your hypothetical is misguided and inaccurate and the Devil's advocate position you are taking is based on the unfortunate reality that our media is ridiculously biased, and sucks at reporting accurately (please don't take the below as an attack...it is just providing information).

Your Devil's advocate position is based on the idea that Pfizer lied to the world regarding transmission. But they never made that claim. Pfizer in their own press releases and reports made clear that they never tested on that, instead they emphasized that it provided 95% protection from symptomatic infection.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577

And even went on the media and flat out told everyone that they could not comment on whether people could still be infected and transmit to others.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/3-vaccine-executives-say-after-approval-distribution-will-be-main-n1249928

Even the FDA made all this clear in their announcements on it being approved.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-takes-key-action-fight-against-covid-19-issuing-emergency-use-authorization-first-covid-19

"The vaccine was 95% effective in preventing COVID-19 disease among these clinical trial participants with eight COVID-19 cases in the vaccine group and 162 in the placebo group. Of these 170 COVID-19 cases, one in the vaccine group and three in the placebo group were classified as severe. At this time, data are not available to make a determination about how long the vaccine will provide protection, nor is there evidence that the vaccine prevents transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from person to person." (emphasis added)

So the media portraying the "big lie" regarding the vaccines are following revisionist history. There was no big pharmaceutical conspiracy. They reported exactly what the data said, that it protected (95%) against symptomatic infection of the prevailing strains, and 100% admitted they did not know about whether it protected against spread.

Others in the media/government indicated it reduced spread of the existing strains, which was true, but all that was based on epidemiological data and trends, not any official trial...and no one ever claimed otherwise.

Thanks for the thorough and thoughtful response.

Yea, I never bought some of the vast pharma conspiracy. I think the misguidance in vaccine testing/performance was news/media headlines and blurbs, which people naturally never read into.

Along those lines, I think there were a couple of studies that initially said in spring 2021 that vaccines significantly reduced transmission.  As Delta came about in Summer 2021, that definitely changed.  There was certainly a "spiking of the football" that the vaccines were a cure all by the Biden administration, but most of the epidemiologists were definitely more reserved. Bottom line: vaccines work, including the new fall boosters.  They protect from severe infection and they also reduce the amount of viral load and chance of transmission. 

Yea thats sort of where I was getting at.  Epidemiologists and hard science professionals kept things in perspective even if their words or findings were being phrased incorrectly in headlines or news reports.

[MU82]

Vaccine hesitancy is fueling a measles resurgence in Columbus, Ohio. Most of the 81 infected children are old enough to get vaccinated, but their parents chose not to, officials said.

Measles is a highly contagious virus that undermines the immune system, making those infected more susceptible to other diseases. The World Health Organization and CDC called it an "imminent" global threat.

Perfect.

[MU82]

Looks like chickenpox, too.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/12/26/vaccine-hesitancy-measles-chickenpox-polio-flu/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F38aa837%2F63a9d100ef9bf67b2337a827%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F10%2F70%2F63a9d100ef9bf67b2337a827&wp_cu=b1005792a416de1fbe1f17e5cf366b7d%7CB1FF71CA724A36FAE0530100007F88D6

More than a third of parents with children under 18 — and 28 percent of all adults — now say parents should be able to decide not to vaccinate their children for measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) to attend public schools, even if remaining unvaccinated may create health risks for others, according to new polling by the Kaiser Family Foundation, a health-care research nonprofit.

Public sentiments against vaccine mandates have grown significantly since the pandemic, said Jen Kates, a Kaiser senior vice president. A 2019 poll by the Pew Research Center found that less than a quarter of parents — and 16 percent of all adults — opposed school vaccination requirements.

The growing opposition stems largely from shifts among people who identify as or lean Republican, the Kaiser survey found, with 44 percent saying parents should be able to opt out of those childhood vaccines — more than double the 20 percent who felt that way in 2019.

Why vaccinate your kids against serious diseases that had been all but wiped out when you can scream "FREEDOM!" instead?

[Jockey]

The growing opposition stems largely from shifts among people who identify as or lean Republican, the Kaiser survey found, with 44 percent saying parents should be able to opt out of those childhood vaccines — more than double the 20 percent who felt that way in 2019.
[/i]
Why vaccinate your kids against serious diseases that had been all but wiped out when you can scream "FREEDOM!" instead?

Pro-lifers. 

[MU_B]

Vaccine hesitancy is fueling a measles resurgence in Columbus, Ohio. Most of the 81 infected children are old enough to get vaccinated, but their parents chose not to, officials said.

Measles is a highly contagious virus that undermines the immune system, making those infected more susceptible to other diseases. The World Health Organization and CDC called it an "imminent" global threat.

Perfect.

"Perfect" 

Well you kind of used some facts.

The number has since spiked, and as of Thursday morning, Columbus Public Health reported at least 82 cases, including 32 hospitalizations. All of those cases are among children 17 and younger, with nearly 94% of those cases infecting infants, babies and children up to the age of 5, health data shows. No children have so far died in the outbreak.

It so far appears that all of the children impacted by the outbreak are at least partially unvaccinated, meaning they have only received one dose of the necessary two for the measles-mumps-rubella vaccine, known as MMR, although four children still have an unknown vaccination status. Children are recommended to get their first dose between 12 and 15 months of age and the second between the age of 4 and 6.   (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ohio-measles-outbreak-82-children-infected-unvaccinated-babies-toddlers/)


It's not vaccine hesitancy, it's the fact that most of them aren't old enough to get the 2nd dose.  But don't let the facts get in the way of the picture you constantly want to paint.

[MU82]

"Perfect" 

Well you kind of used some facts.

The number has since spiked, and as of Thursday morning, Columbus Public Health reported at least 82 cases, including 32 hospitalizations. All of those cases are among children 17 and younger, with nearly 94% of those cases infecting infants, babies and children up to the age of 5, health data shows. No children have so far died in the outbreak.

It so far appears that all of the children impacted by the outbreak are at least partially unvaccinated, meaning they have only received one dose of the necessary two for the measles-mumps-rubella vaccine, known as MMR, although four children still have an unknown vaccination status. Children are recommended to get their first dose between 12 and 15 months of age and the second between the age of 4 and 6.   (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ohio-measles-outbreak-82-children-infected-unvaccinated-babies-toddlers/)


It's not vaccine hesitancy, it's the fact that most of them aren't old enough to get the 2nd dose.  But don't let the facts get in the way of the picture you constantly want to paint.

I didn't make up what I wrote. State health officials were quoted in published reports. Thanks for providing more recent detail, which doesn't mean some parents aren't putting their kids in danger by refusing vaccinations for these diseases.

[MUDPT]

"Perfect" 

Well you kind of used some facts.

The number has since spiked, and as of Thursday morning, Columbus Public Health reported at least 82 cases, including 32 hospitalizations. All of those cases are among children 17 and younger, with nearly 94% of those cases infecting infants, babies and children up to the age of 5, health data shows. No children have so far died in the outbreak.

It so far appears that all of the children impacted by the outbreak are at least partially unvaccinated, meaning they have only received one dose of the necessary two for the measles-mumps-rubella vaccine, known as MMR, although four children still have an unknown vaccination status. Children are recommended to get their first dose between 12 and 15 months of age and the second between the age of 4 and 6.   (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ohio-measles-outbreak-82-children-infected-unvaccinated-babies-toddlers/)


It's not vaccine hesitancy, it's the fact that most of them aren't old enough to get the 2nd dose.  But don't let the facts get in the way of the picture you constantly want to paint.

If the people that could have been vaccinated, were vaccinated, then the ones that did get the Measels, who were partially vaccinated, wouldn't have gotten it.  It's how vaccines work.

[MU82]

If the people that could have been vaccinated, were vaccinated, then the ones that did get the Measels, who were partially vaccinated, wouldn't have gotten it.  It's how vaccines work.

Thanks for trying to provide information to the willfully misinformed.

[The Sultan]

I didn't make up what I wrote. State health officials were quoted in published reports. Thanks for providing more recent detail, which doesn't mean some parents aren't putting their kids in danger by refusing vaccinations for these diseases.

You said:  "Most of the 81 infected children are old enough to get vaccinated, but their parents chose not to, officials said."

I don't know where you got this information, because you didn't provide a source or a link, but apparently it was wrong.

Thanks for trying to provide information to the willfully misinformed.

Says the guy who literally passed along misinformation.

[MU82]

You're misinformed.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't know where you got this information, because you didn't provide a source or a link, but apparently it was wrong.

Looks like it was from here but the original author didn't provide a source either

https://captimes.com/opinion/dave-zweifel/opinion-growing-aversion-to-vaccines-puts-us-all-at-risk/article_ee9466f7-f120-5d99-85d1-fbd39ced3d79.html

[The Sultan]

Looks like it was from here but the original author didn't provide a source either

https://captimes.com/opinion/dave-zweifel/opinion-growing-aversion-to-vaccines-puts-us-all-at-risk/article_ee9466f7-f120-5d99-85d1-fbd39ced3d79.html

LOL, Dave Zweifel? Been a long time since I saw that name. I didn't know that guy was still alive much less writing. Anyway, a poor job by a former newspaper editor...or excuse me..."editor emeritus." 

[forgetful]

You said:  "Most of the 81 infected children are old enough to get vaccinated, but their parents chose not to, officials said."

I don't know where you got this information, because you didn't provide a source or a link, but apparently it was wrong.


Says the guy who literally passed along misinformation.

The statement literally comes directly from the link embedded in the article MU82 provided. It is cited in the article.

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/columbus/viz/MeaslesPublicReport/MeaslesPublicReport?publish=yes


Which shows that 74 of the 82 children infected were unvaccinated.

[The Sultan]

nm 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The statement literally comes directly from the link embedded in the article MU82 provided. It is cited in the article.

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/columbus/viz/MeaslesPublicReport/MeaslesPublicReport?publish=yes


Which shows that 74 of the 82 children infected were unvaccinated.

First MMR dose is supposed to come between 12-15 months (parent of a toddler). So what this data tells us is that 23 of the 74 unvaccinated were certainly not old enough to receive it so not due to parents' choice. 23 certainly were old enough to receive it which on some level makes it a parents choice (whether that's because of anti-vax stance, ignorance, lack of money, etc we don't know). That leaves the 36 1-2 year olds that were old enough to receive that vaccine but we don't know if the parent was choosing not to vaccinate them or if they just hadn't had that doctor's appointment yet (probably safe to assume that at least a majority of them were at least late getting that first dose). I assume the 4 partially vaccinated fall into this group as well. There's also the 4 with unknown vaccination statuses.

I think what we can say certainty from this data is that at least 28% of the cases involve a child whose parents have chosen not to vaccinate them. 28% of the cases involve a child who was not old enough to vaccinate.

[cheebs09]

First MMR dose is supposed to come between 12-15 months (parent of a toddler). So what this data tells us is that 23 of the 74 unvaccinated were certainly not old enough to receive it so not due to parents' choice. 23 certainly were old enough to receive it which on some level makes it a parents choice (whether that's because of anti-vax stance, ignorance, lack of money, etc we don't know). That leaves the 36 1-2 year olds that were old enough to receive that vaccine but we don't know if the parent was choosing not to vaccinate them or if they just hadn't had that doctor's appointment yet (probably safe to assume that at least a majority of them were at least late getting that first dose). I assume the 4 partially vaccinated fall into this group as well. There's also the 4 with unknown vaccination statuses.

I think what we can say certainty from this data is that at least 28% of the cases involve a child whose parents have chosen not to vaccinate them. 28% of the cases involve a child who was not old enough to vaccinate.

Having a 2 year old, the amount of times our vaccination appointment gets cancelled due to not having any vaccines is crazy. I think we are on our 3rd or 4th try and have tried a few spots. Plus she needs 3 doses. She would fall into the category of not being fully vaccinated, but it's not due to a lack of effort.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Having a 2 year old, the amount of times our vaccination appointment gets cancelled due to not having any vaccines is crazy. I think we are on our 3rd or 4th try and have tried a few spots. Plus she needs 3 doses. She would fall into the category of not being fully vaccinated, but it's not due to a lack of effort.

That's really unfortunate. We've been lucky, haven't had that happen to us yet

[JWags85]

Having a 2 year old, the amount of times our vaccination appointment gets cancelled due to not having any vaccines is crazy. I think we are on our 3rd or 4th try and have tried a few spots. Plus she needs 3 doses. She would fall into the category of not being fully vaccinated, but it's not due to a lack of effort.

My son got his 2 month shots 2 days shy of his 2 month mark.  If we had waited till after the 2 month mark, we had at least a 10-14 day delay due to scheduling and availability.

I know anti-vax became a big deal with COVID but I feel the narrative extending to all vaccines and inoculations is getting a bit much and stretching.  Empirically, I know 6-7 couples who were against the COVID vaccine, most I believe still have no gotten it.  None have withheld other vaccines from their kids, and 3 of those couples had kids aging into the standard rounds of vaccines all anti-vaxxers ardently avoid, since COVID vaccines were out.

[forgetful]

First MMR dose is supposed to come between 12-15 months (parent of a toddler). So what this data tells us is that 23 of the 74 unvaccinated were certainly not old enough to receive it so not due to parents' choice. 23 certainly were old enough to receive it which on some level makes it a parents choice (whether that's because of anti-vax stance, ignorance, lack of money, etc we don't know). That leaves the 36 1-2 year olds that were old enough to receive that vaccine but we don't know if the parent was choosing not to vaccinate them or if they just hadn't had that doctor's appointment yet (probably safe to assume that at least a majority of them were at least late getting that first dose). I assume the 4 partially vaccinated fall into this group as well. There's also the 4 with unknown vaccination statuses.

I think what we can say certainty from this data is that at least 28% of the cases involve a child whose parents have chosen not to vaccinate them. 28% of the cases involve a child who was not old enough to vaccinate.

The original article states that "most of them were unvaccinated" and "most were eligible age wise for vaccination" the data supports this.

I wasn't disagreeing with anything or debating numbers, just pointing out to Sultan who claimed that MU82 was spreading false information, and not providing links to the data, when both the article and the link within it supported what was published and what MU82 wrote.

[The Sultan]

Never mind . You're just being intellectually dishonest now.

[cheebs09]

That's really unfortunate. We've been lucky, haven't had that happen to us yet

Just to clarify, this is just Covid shots luckily. We haven't had any issues with other shots.

[Jay Bee]

Sounds like an equity issue

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Diamond, of Diamond & Silk, just totally owned the libs.

Please proceed, anti-vaxxers.

[reinko]

I am sure Diamond from Diamond and Silk who is currently hospitalized with the CoCo is enthralled by your "data".

🤔