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Author Topic: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz  (Read 19466 times)

#UnleashSean

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #125 on: January 13, 2022, 07:09:06 PM »
Scoop has a 5 page thread on a tweet from Duane Wilson on buzz Williams. Congrats.

Duane Wilson ended up being a bust who bailed on mu his senior year. Either from injuries, or from a long line of milwaukee area players busting in college. He is not only salty about a coaching maneuver that happens at every college that's not a blue chip, but also upset over being left out of the tbt by marquette alumni.

He's a has been/never was who is now looking for attention. Who cares.


Buzz was the 2nd best coach for Marquette ever. Period. We lost very hard on the buzz leaving train. We got stuck with a useless choir boy for 7 years. It's now almost been a decade since marquettes last ncaa tournament win. We are currently irrelevant. Hopefully Shaka changes that.

TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #126 on: January 13, 2022, 07:46:35 PM »
You pushed it to 6 pages. Congrats.
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #127 on: January 13, 2022, 08:28:36 PM »
Scoop has a 5 page thread on a tweet from Duane Wilson on buzz Williams. Congrats.

Duane Wilson ended up being a bust who bailed on mu his senior year. Either from injuries, or from a long line of milwaukee area players busting in college. He is not only salty about a coaching maneuver that happens at every college that's not a blue chip, but also upset over being left out of the tbt by marquette alumni.

He's a has been/never was who is now looking for attention. Who cares.


Buzz was the 2nd best coach for Marquette ever. Period. We lost very hard on the buzz leaving train. We got stuck with a useless choir boy for 7 years. It's now almost been a decade since marquettes last ncaa tournament win. We are currently irrelevant. Hopefully Shaka changes that.

Duane transferred from MU after he graduated, not during his senior year. He led the BE frosh in scoring his first year, in a great BE class. He led MU to a NCAA appearance and kept JjJ at MU as they believed in Wojo who eventually recruited over them (but not well).

Duane is rightly pissed as he was ready to return to Buzz's crappy team as the starting PG after his injury. Then he got the flu and Buzz sat down with the Wilsons and said don't waste a year like Junior, trust me, I will be here. So Duane redshirted. Buzz flamed out and left the Wilsons at the altar which handcuffed his transfer when Wojo came in.

Wojo talked the talk but didn't walk the walk. The list was long and the MKE AAU deserted Wojo. And later the Ellenson and Hauser Mafia.

Duane was a trooper. MU screwed him.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2022, 08:32:54 PM by Dr. Blackheart »

Pakuni

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #128 on: January 13, 2022, 08:45:43 PM »
Scoop has a 5 page thread on a tweet from Duane Wilson on buzz Williams. Congrats.

Duane Wilson ended up being a bust who bailed on mu his senior year. Either from injuries, or from a long line of milwaukee area players busting in college. He is not only salty about a coaching maneuver that happens at every college that's not a blue chip, but also upset over being left out of the tbt by marquette alumni.

He's a has been/never was who is now looking for attention. Who cares.


jesmu84

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #129 on: January 13, 2022, 08:57:47 PM »
Buzz was to VaTech as to what Kevin O'Neill was to Marquette.  Debating if Buzz is a very good basketball coach is silly.

Anyone care to think what would have happened if Wojo came in after Crean?  Think that team would have thrived?  For the 100th time too, Buzz left Wojo 7 Top 100 kids.  Wojo was a horsecrap coach, that's why he finished 154 in his first year at MU, and why his best player transferred out.

The fact Wojo got blown out by 17 and 32 in his two NCAA tourney appearances with a lot of talent on those rosters tells you all you need to know.  FIGHT!  PLAY ANGRY!  COMPETE, COMPETE, COMPETE.  Total meathead.

"Top 100"

rocky_warrior

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #130 on: January 13, 2022, 09:16:12 PM »
"Top 100"

Ners still can't reconcile that buzz, MUs 2nd best coach ever, also couldn't win with those 7.  But hey, math no matta.

JWags85

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #131 on: January 13, 2022, 09:20:41 PM »
They weren't DePaul, dude. You're cherrypicking here. They made a tragically bad decision to replace Seth Greenberg with James Johnson, which led to three abyssmal seasons. From 2007 t0 2011, VaTech won 109 games, i.e. 22 a season, under Greenberg. DePaul has had one 20-win in the last 15 years.

Before Seth Greenberg, they had 10 straight losing seasons.  People mock Buzz's soft schedule this year, but there is a reason Greenberg's team's won 109 games and made 1 NCAA.  All in a much weaker ACC. Greenberg made a bad program into an ok one, then downturned and yes they made a disastrous hiring. 

I was speaking to what he walked into, the cupcake of the ACC for the last few seasons.  Of course they weren't abysmal as Depaul for 15 years, but its not like it was some great program that had a brief downturn

Yeah, it's exactly what it means. A Final Four > 10 Sweet 16s.
Though, I admit, every time I'm in the Fiserv I gaze up in awe at those Sweet 16 banners.

So Jim Larranaga>Leonard Hamilton in terms of coaching credentials and career.  Paul Hewitt>Matt Painter.  Got it

But this isn't really true. Their winning percentages at MU were nearly identical. Throw out TC's first season, when he had zero of his own recruits and a, shall we say, roster lacking in talent (John Mueller and John Cliff were starters!) Crean has a definite edge, .681 to .668.

...in CUSA.  Hardly the same level of competition.  Cincy went undefeated in conference that year.  Look at the conference schedule for the majority if Buzz's tenure vs Crean's.  I really don't think its like for like, IMO


DoctorV

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #132 on: January 13, 2022, 09:40:53 PM »
This thread makes me really happy I had a busy day at the office

Pakuni

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #133 on: January 13, 2022, 10:11:48 PM »
Before Seth Greenberg, they had 10 straight losing seasons.  People mock Buzz's soft schedule this year, but there is a reason Greenberg's team's won 109 games and made 1 NCAA.  All in a much weaker ACC. Greenberg made a bad program into an ok one, then downturned and yes they made a disastrous hiring. 

By what metric are you saying the ACC was "much weaker" when Greenberg was at VaTech. Conference RPI? Final Fours? KenPom?
Show us your work.
Regardless, glad we can agree that VaTech was not DePaul when Buzz took over, as some here have claimed.

Quote
So Jim Larranaga>Leonard Hamilton in terms of coaching credentials and career.  Paul Hewitt>Matt Painter.  Got it

You're obviously being disingenuous here since nothing I've written would lead to such a conclusion.
That said, yeah, Larranaga > Hamilton.
Better career winning percentage. Way better winning percentage at the same school (Miami). Same number of ACC titles in 10 fewer ACC seasons. More Final Fours.
In 14 seasons at George Mason, Larranaga got to 5 NCAA tournaments. In 14 seasons at Miami and Okie State combined, Hamilton got to 3.
What am I missing? Larranaga has consistently had at least as much success, if not more, at historically lesser programs.

Quote
...in CUSA.  Hardly the same level of competition.  Cincy went undefeated in conference that year.  Look at the conference schedule for the majority if Buzz's tenure vs Crean's.  I really don't think its like for like, IMO

Goalpost shifting.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2022, 10:13:27 PM by Pakuni »

rocky_warrior

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #134 on: January 13, 2022, 10:15:49 PM »
This thread makes me really happy I had a busy day at the office

crap, I thought this *was* the office. Guess I should check the address on those paystubs.

MarquetteMike1977

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #135 on: January 13, 2022, 10:36:09 PM »
In The Old Big East Buzz made the Big Dance All 5 Years he was in it. 8 NCAA wins, Made 1 Elite 8, 3 Sweet 16s, 4 Round of 32s if you count overlap. Why would anyone run the best coach while at MU besides AL McGuire out. Agree with Billy Hoyle, Fluffy Blue Monster And Lennys Tap. As Fluffy Blue Monster said Buzz was not run out of town. Buzz would be here yet if he wanted. As Billy Hoyle said Buzz bailed since he did not believe in the New Big East for MU. Refs who once nodded at Buzz shook their heads at Buzz.  In the New Big East Buzz did not even make the NIT.
Say some Prayers for Mr Cords. Heard he was hospitalized today. It was Mr Cords who whispered in my ear at the press  conference announcing Marquette Joining  the Old Big East. Whispering Marquette would be very good for a very long time. It was a Cords who said Marquette would be rebuilding when it was announced Marquette was joining the New Big East.

Viper

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #136 on: January 13, 2022, 10:37:08 PM »
I think he means if KO didn’t bring us out of the dumpster fire we may have been rooting for an inferior team in an inferior conference.  Same for Crean and his success getting the AL built and helping get us into the Big East.  At least I think that is what was meant and it’s hard to argue.
ah…got it. I agree w/you both.
Moron? Maybe. Dork? Possibly. Lost? Definitely.

Viper

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #137 on: January 13, 2022, 10:39:00 PM »
Coaches should build the program upon the success from their predecessor. Buzz wouldn't have had the starting point that he did if not for Crean. And Crean wouldn't have had the starting point he did if not for KO (though Deane tried to f*ck it up).

It looked like Buzz was going to build on Crean's success. The first three years of course had fun moments but weren't any better than the Crean years. Then he managed two consecutive 3 seeds in years 4 and 5 and it looked like maybe he could get the program to the next step in its evolution. Then Blue declared, the house of cards fell and we went from a 3 seed to missing the NIT.  A steep drop. To add insult to injury, he left after that year, blowing up a top recruiting class, and left a mess for the next coach to figure out.

So what I think Pakuni was saying, was that KO elevated the program. TC elevated the program. Buzz at best maintained it and I would argue left it in worse shape than he got it. Doesn't mean his accomplishments at MU should be ignored or even that he's a bad coach. Just means he couldn't get us to the next level as program. And to be fair, the better a program gets, the harder it is to move up.
agree. Thx.
Moron? Maybe. Dork? Possibly. Lost? Definitely.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #138 on: January 13, 2022, 10:41:39 PM »
Say some Prayers for Mr Cords. Heard he was hospitalized today. It was Mr Cords who whispered in my ear at the press  conference announcing Marquette Joining  the Old Big East. Whispering Marquette would be very good for a very long time. It was a Cords who said Marquette would be rebuilding when it was announced Marquette was joining the New Big East.

Prayers out

JWags85

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #139 on: January 13, 2022, 10:51:36 PM »
By what metric are you saying the ACC was "much weaker" when Greenberg was at VaTech. Conference RPI? Final Fours? KenPom?
Show us your work.
Regardless, glad we can agree that VaTech was not DePaul when Buzz took over, as some here have claimed.

You are telling me an ACC without Louisville, ND, and Cuse and a pre-Tony Bennett UVA (with 1 NCAA win in the last 15 years at that point) is equal to the current iteration? Or basically on par?

With the exception of Pitt, none of the schools added since Seth left were cupcakes or lesser programs than VT.  And with UVA, and to a lesser extent FSU turning it on around 2012, you had some additional secondary heft to the top heavy UNC/Duke. If you truly don’t agree, then we can agree to disagree. All good


You're obviously being disingenuous here since nothing I've written would lead to such a conclusion.

I wasn’t trying to be. A bit snarky, sure. But you literally said “Final Four>10 Sweet Sixteens” with an additional snarky comment to show I was a fool for thinking otherwise.
If that wasn’t your point, clearly i missed it.

So I made a comparison of coaches who had more S16s but didn’t have a F4.


Goalpost shifting.

Alright here’s where I’ll dig in. How the F is it goalpost shifting?

You LITERALLY brought up their records while coaching at MU. I specifically pointed out that CUSA competition, aka 16 of Creans games per year, was significantly different competition than Buzz playing 18 BE games a year. If you think the mid 2000s CUSA slate with East Carolina, USF, TCU, UAB, and So Miss was as rigorous as the BE slate that Buzz’s team was facing, then ok. Agree to disagree. I shifted nothing, just pointed out that just because they both coached at MU, that doesn’t meant the competition was equal.

Viper

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #140 on: January 13, 2022, 11:04:11 PM »
Say some Prayers for Mr Cords. Heard he was hospitalized today. It was Mr Cords who whispered in my ear at the press  conference announcing Marquette Joining  the Old Big East. Whispering Marquette would be very good for a very long time. It was a Cords who said Marquette would be rebuilding when it was announced Marquette was joining the New Big East.
Buzz clearly made a mistake re: the new Big East. Too bad for him. The new Big East is very good. Has produced a national champ good, in fact. Marquette rebuilding for 8/9 years is all on Marquette. When football, tv and greed resulted in massive conference realignments, Cords probably recognized  something within Marquette’s leadership would mean less than stellar results for a while. Ft Wild was retired. University leadership was no doubt not basketball savvy and did not grasp how basketballcentric MU truly is. Hence, from what you’ve said here, it appears Cords was prophetic. And, thankfully, MU stayed with the BE rather than go into some CUSA-type conference of no names and schlubs. Finally, there may be some light at the end of the tunnel of mediocrity MU has been traveling. (I realize this is way off from a Duane Wilson tweet…but kind of how this discussion has evolved)
Moron? Maybe. Dork? Possibly. Lost? Definitely.

Pakuni

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #141 on: January 13, 2022, 11:58:31 PM »
You are telling me an ACC without Louisville, ND, and Cuse and a pre-Tony Bennett UVA (with 1 NCAA win in the last 15 years at that point) is equal to the current iteration? Or basically on par?

So, no metrics or rationale, then?
Fair enough.

Quote
Alright here’s where I’ll dig in. How the F is it goalpost shifting?
You LITERALLY brought up their records while coaching at MU.

No, you LITERALLY wrote "but no coach since (Al) was better at winning basketball games, including March, than Buzz."
When I pointed out that this, in fact, was not true, you changed your argument to say that the actual winning of games - the factor you chose, mind you - doesn't matter because some of Crean's wins came in C-USA.
That, my friend, is shifting goalposts. When shown that Crean and Buzz won games at the same rate - and Crean was even better with his own recruits than Buzz was - you decided that winning games didn't matter as much as conference affiliation.
Except during Crean's three years coaching Marquette in the Big East, the team had a .690 winning percentage and won an average 23 games per season. Buzz's winning percentage at Marquette (all Big East, of course) was .668 and he won 23.2 games per season.
So even when accounting for conference affiliation, they won games at the same rate.

But again, this all misses the point. Crean took over a program in a bad (or at best mediocre) place and left it in a good place. Buzz took over a program in a good place and left it in a mediocre place.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 12:03:28 AM by Pakuni »

#UnleashSean

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #142 on: January 14, 2022, 08:05:30 AM »
Duane transferred from MU after he graduated, not during his senior year.

Are we going to split straws here? Graduate transfers are considered 5th year seniors. Who cares past that point for basketball.

Duane "led" marquette to the tournament? Now that's a hot take. Do we consider everyone who was on the team to "lead" them?

Duane was over recruited. D1 basketball is a business. That happens, and there's nothing wrong with that.


Galway Eagle

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #143 on: January 14, 2022, 08:21:03 AM »
Are we going to split straws here? Graduate transfers are considered 5th year seniors. Who cares past that point for basketball.

Duane "led" marquette to the tournament? Now that's a hot take. Do we consider everyone who was on the team to "lead" them?

Duane was over recruited. D1 basketball is a business. That happens, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I believe you've mentioned you didn't go to MU which there's nothing wrong with but the "he didn't bail on MU" point is more relevant to any MU alum who would say that. He didn't bail on MU any more so than any of us with non MU post grad degrees did.

I agree he certainly didn't lead us to the tournament.

It's hard for me to believe he was "over recruited" averaging 11.5 pts is freshman and sophomore years. That to me seems like a case of either misuse (he was supposed to be a PG but was playing SG as I recall) or rightfully feeling a bit slighted by Wojo despite being fairly effective in his first two years.

Maigh Eo for Sam

Skatastrophy

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #144 on: January 14, 2022, 08:47:56 AM »
crap, I thought this *was* the office. Guess I should check the address on those paystubs.

When is the Scoop earnings call?

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #145 on: January 14, 2022, 09:07:16 AM »
Are we going to split straws here? Graduate transfers are considered 5th year seniors. Who cares past that point for basketball.

Duane "led" marquette to the tournament? Now that's a hot take. Do we consider everyone who was on the team to "lead" them?

Duane was over recruited. D1 basketball is a business. That happens, and there's nothing wrong with that.

For some reason you don’t like Duane, and you ripped him in your post. I tried to counterbalance your negative comments and add context. I am sorry I pissed in your cornflakes.

The only difference I guess for me on the definition of senior who “bails” and a graduate like Duane is, is the diploma he earned. As a MU graduate, that means something to many of us. Katin “bailed” on MU (the university) the minute MU lost to South Carolina, for instance.

As to the word “led”, he was part of a group who played significant minutes and made significant contributions (even though playing through a leg injury), including the Nova game (which was the reason MU got off the bubble). I don’t think that team had any “leader” in fact. But he was the veteran glue guy and I believe captain of that team. And I didn’t think anyone who was remotely watching that team would think he was the star.

shoothoops

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #146 on: January 14, 2022, 09:43:47 AM »
So, no metrics or rationale, then?
Fair enough.

No, you LITERALLY wrote "but no coach since (Al) was better at winning basketball games, including March, than Buzz."
When I pointed out that this, in fact, was not true, you changed your argument to say that the actual winning of games - the factor you chose, mind you - doesn't matter because some of Crean's wins came in C-USA.
That, my friend, is shifting goalposts. When shown that Crean and Buzz won games at the same rate - and Crean was even better with his own recruits than Buzz was - you decided that winning games didn't matter as much as conference affiliation.
Except during Crean's three years coaching Marquette in the Big East, the team had a .690 winning percentage and won an average 23 games per season. Buzz's winning percentage at Marquette (all Big East, of course) was .668 and he won 23.2 games per season.
So even when accounting for conference affiliation, they won games at the same rate.

But again, this all misses the point. Crean took over a program in a bad (or at best mediocre) place and left it in a good place. Buzz took over a program in a good place and left it in a mediocre place.

I think you mean KO instead of Crean here. Crean came into a Sweet 16 team, league title, two straight NCAA appearances program.

What one does during a tenure, and how one leaves it, are two separate things. You’d prefer both but what they accomplish while they are there matters most. (Buzz)

As for Duane, that isn’t coach specific or MUBB specific. Several players weren’t thrilled when Crean left etc….

And for MUBB fans, (also not program specific) some (not all) will always make a villain out of any coach that chooses to leave on his or her own for a different school. Crean or Buzz or insert a future coach that does it here. And the more recent coach often takes more of the brunt of it over time.

I think a reasonable observation os to say when MUBB was staring into the abyss, KO, Crean, Buzz all added different things to the program at higher levels than Deane or Wojo.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 09:51:14 AM by shoothoops »

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #147 on: January 14, 2022, 09:45:47 AM »
Crean came into a Sweet 16 team, league title, two straight NCAA appearances program.


What?
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shoothoops

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #148 on: January 14, 2022, 09:48:31 AM »

What?

O’Neill accomplished those things just before Crean arrived. The poster said that Crean inherited a program in a bad or mediocre place.

Billy Hoyle

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Re: Duane Wilson has some thoughts on Buzz
« Reply #149 on: January 14, 2022, 09:50:27 AM »

What?

He was obviously thinking “Jim Crews,” not “Tom Crean.”
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