Golf 2022

[WhiteTrash]

As long as they are willing to lose a crap ton of money on the front end.

"crap ton of money" is a relative term. If the Saudi's loose $100MM per year over a few years, that is a drop in the bucket (especially with oil at $100+ per barrel). Now $100MM to the XFL or PGA is a death sentence.

[JWags85]

Agree 100%.

I admit that I underestimated the threat to the PGA Tour at first. I now think it's a very real threat. There is nothing stopping LIV from luring most of the top-50 players, as well as up-and-coming young players. They've already started.

I don't think this is one iota like the XFL, etc.

What is interesting to me as this plays out...Ok, yes, LIV and Saudi money is morally questionable.  But what if this was being fronted by Rob Walton (who just bought the Broncos) and his $60B?  Or  Francois Pinault in France with tons of sponsorships and tie-ins from luxury brands under his Kering umbrella. 

Its obviously a pure hypothetical, but I wonder how much of the PGA's support here comes just from the shadiness of the money behind the upstart.

[Uncle Rico]

Yes.  Basically the PGA's chip is the Majors.  My take is they can't be suspended from the PGA tour, they have to be banned.  If Kevin Na got say 25-50 mill to switch to LIV this has to cause some animosity among PGA players.  As you said this is generational wealth.  If Cam Smith, Zalatoris, or some young superstar leaves it's a big problem for the PGA tour. Clearly LIV has billions it can throw at these guys.    I really think banning them from the Majors is their only trump card (no pun intended).  And who's to say that will even work??

PGA Tour doesn't own the majors

[MUBurrow]

What is interesting to me as this plays out...Ok, yes, LIV and Saudi money is morally questionable.  But what if this was being fronted by Rob Walton (who just bought the Broncos) and his $60B?  Or  Francois Pinault in France with tons of sponsorships and tie-ins from luxury brands under his Kering umbrella. 

Its obviously a pure hypothetical, but I wonder how much of the PGA's support here comes just from the shadiness of the money behind the upstart.

Yup, this.  Its what makes Mickelson's unforced error earlier this year so unbelievable.  Not like the Saudi support wouldn't have been an issue, but he made it THE issue.  Heck he made it bad enough that DJ had to falsely swear allegiance to the Tour until the immediate press blowback blew over.  I think the LIV lost at least a handful of players because of Mickelson's comments.

I also wonder if it cost Mickelson money.  The way he went silent, and then was a late add to the London event makes me think there may have been some shady "renegotiations" between Phil and the Saudis.  If the Saudis were pulling the strings on Phil before, its 100x worse now.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Reportedly Tiger turned down a deal from the LIV in the high 9 figures.

[WhiteTrash]

Reportedly Tiger turned down a deal from the LIV in the high 9 figures.

Over $500,000,000?!? Did he injure his head in the car accident too? He's "only" made $121,000,000 from the PGA so far (like 30 years or so). What it must be like to walk away from that kind of money? Crazy.

[Uncle Rico]

Over $500,000,000?!? Did he injure his head in the car accident too? He's "only" made $121,000,000 from the PGA so far (like 30 years or so). What it must be like to walk away from that kind of money? Crazy.

Some people don't have a price to sportswash for the Saudi's. 

[MU82]

Over $500,000,000?!? Did he injure his head in the car accident too? He's "only" made $121,000,000 from the PGA so far (like 30 years or so). What it must be like to walk away from that kind of money? Crazy.

The vast majority of Tiger's career earnings -- more than $2 billion -- have come from his deals with sponsors. Nike alone has paid him upwards of $500M, with his current deal paying him about $200M even though he has played very little golf since signing it.

So yes, he can afford to turn down the Saudis, thereby not alienating Nike and his other major sponsors.

[MuggsyB]

The vast majority of Tiger's career earnings -- more than $2 billion -- have come from his deals with sponsors. Nike alone has paid him upwards of $500M, with his current deal paying him about $200M even though he has played very little golf since signing it.

So yes, he can afford to turn down the Saudis, thereby not alienating Nike and his other major sponsors.

Haven't we all here turned down $500 m?  Even non blood money $500 m? 

[The Sultan]

Haven't we all here turned down $500 m?  Even non blood money $500 m? 

I mean, he has enough money to support his family for generations.  At what point does he need more?  And at what cost to his reputation?

[The Sultan]

LOL

https://twitter.com/edsbs/status/1534279469070000132?s=20&t=oLYXSfz5bns19ktTyvYg-Q

[Herman Cain]

Tiger not playing in US Open , is focusing on The British Open.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TigerWoods/status/1534198107608604674

[Pakuni]

Over $500,000,000?!? Did he injure his head in the car accident too? He's "only" made $121,000,000 from the PGA so far (like 30 years or so). What it must be like to walk away from that kind of money? Crazy.

Tiger has "F*ck you" money.

[Uncle Rico]

LOL

https://twitter.com/edsbs/status/1534279469070000132?s=20&t=oLYXSfz5bns19ktTyvYg-Q

Considering Phil and his wife are swingers and DJ likes to try and sleep with everyone's wives, they seem like a natura fit

[MuggsyB]

I mean, he has enough money to support his family for generations.  At what point does he need more?  And at what cost to his reputation?

It's called sarcasm Fluffy if that's who you are now. 

[WhiteTrash]

The vast majority of Tiger's career earnings -- more than $2 billion -- have come from his deals with sponsors. Nike alone has paid him upwards of $500M, with his current deal paying him about $200M even though he has played very little golf since signing it.

So yes, he can afford to turn down the Saudis, thereby not alienating Nike and his other major sponsors.

I never addressed his career earning from sponsorships. Playing in LIV I doubt would dry up his sponsorship deals. I would expect they may take a hit (his recent reduction in performance level and playing frequency may play into it also) but I am confident the LIV money would more than make up for it. If he could make $5,$6,$7,$8 or maybe $900MM from LIV it could possibly out pace what he's done in his career. Plus add the continuing/new sponsorship deals.

But, I agree with your point that if he were to lose essentially all his endorsement deals, it may be a wash and thus smart to turn down.

I guess it really comes down to 1. what is "high 9 figures"? $500MM or $990MM (usually in banker speak it would be north of $700MM; "mid 9 figures" would be $4-$700MM)? and 2. How long of a deal? 5 or 10 or 20 years?

I think the theory, mentioned in previous posts, that he has an issue with the Saudi's makes the most sense as to why he'd turn down the pay increase. It's crazy to an average Joe like me but I can respect a man for standing on principle.

Lastly, of course he can afford to turn down the money. He could have afforded to stop playing and endorsing products 15 years ago.

[Uncle Rico]

I never addressed his career earning from sponsorships. Playing in LIV I doubt would dry up his sponsorship deals. I would expect they may take a hit (his recent reduction in performance level and playing frequency may play into it also) but I am confident the LIV money would more than make up for it. If he could make $5,$6,$7,$8 or maybe $900MM from LIV it could possibly out pace what he's done in his career. Plus add the continuing/new sponsorship deals.

But, I agree with your point that if he were to lose essentially all his endorsement deals, it may be a wash and thus smart to turn down.

I guess it really comes down to 1. what is "high 9 figures"? $500MM or $990MM (usually in banker speak it would be north of $700MM; "mid 9 figures" would be $4-$700MM)? and 2. How long of a deal? 5 or 10 or 20 years?

I think the theory, mentioned in previous posts, that he has an issue with the Saudi's makes the most sense as to why he'd turn down the pay increase. It's crazy to an average Joe like me but I can respect a man for standing on principle.

Lastly, of course he can afford to turn down the money. He could have afforded to stop playing and endorsing products 15 years ago.

I'd argue he's made a calculated decision as well that by staying with the tour, he'll actually increase his current income.  It won't offset what he was offered but his name will still mean a lot being attached to course designs and other ventures. 

[Goose]

The biggest gamble for Phil is the endorsements. Arnie was one of the highest paid athletes in endorsements until he died and Phil likely had similar staying power. My guess, he is betting that the endorsements come back if LIV is a success or a major failure and he is welcomed back to the PGA. While I am disappointed he left, I think he ultimately ends up in good graces and has endorsements for twenty more years. I think he ends up a major winner financially above and beyond the LIV windfall.

[Uncle Rico]

The biggest gamble for Phil is the endorsements. Arnie was one of the highest paid athletes in endorsements until he died and Phil likely had similar staying power. My guess, he is betting that the endorsements come back if LIV is a success or a major failure and he is welcomed back to the PGA. While I am disappointed he left, I think he ultimately ends up in good graces and has endorsements for twenty more years. I think he ends up a major winner financially above and beyond the LIV windfall.

He'll blow it.  Once a degenerate, always a degenerate

[Goose]

Rico

There is no doubt he could blow it, but I think he makes another major score in endorsements in next 2-3 years. I am afraid LIV might have legs and change the sport I love, even more than MU basketball. The Saudi's can lose whatever money they want for a long time and will continue to lure players there. Truthfully, there might be 20 guys that I could argue would be silly going and DJ would have been one of them.

[MuggsyB]

Rico

There is no doubt he could blow it, but I think he makes another major score in endorsements in next 2-3 years. I am afraid LIV might have legs and change the sport I love, even more than MU basketball. The Saudi's can lose whatever money they want for a long time and will continue to lure players there. Truthfully, there might be 20 guys that I could argue would be silly going and DJ would have been one of them.

Goose,

I love golf too but more than MU hoops???  Are you feeling alright?

[Uncle Rico]

Rico

There is no doubt he could blow it, but I think he makes another major score in endorsements in next 2-3 years. I am afraid LIV might have legs and change the sport I love, even more than MU basketball. The Saudi's can lose whatever money they want for a long time and will continue to lure players there. Truthfully, there might be 20 guys that I could argue would be silly going and DJ would have been one of them.

Men's professional golf will end up like boxing and American open wheel racing.  And when we have our pending economic recession/downturn, the public won't have much time for golf leagues spending millions-to-billions on trust fund kids

[Herman Cain]

Men's professional golf will end up like boxing and American open wheel racing.  And when we have our pending economic recession/downturn, the public won't have much time for golf leagues spending millions-to-billions on trust fund kids

Some of the PGA Tour top brass live in my neighborhood . In chewing the fat with these guys, they have told me they have an incredible thing going as the PGA Tour is a multi billion dollar annual revenue nonprofit whose management answers to no one. Senior Management has the ultimate life sinecure . So really this battle is just about player money as it is about who gains control of the revenue flow going forward .  So throw in PGA Tour management in as part of the entitled groups the public won't have much time for.

[Uncle Rico]

Some of the PGA Tour top brass live in my neighborhood . In chewing the far with these guys, they have told me they have an incredible thing going as the PGA Tour is a multi billion dollar annual revenue nonprofit is whose management answers to no one. Senior Management has the ultimate life sinecure . So really this battle is just about player money as it is about who gains control of the revenue flow going forward .  So throw in PGA Tour management in as part of the entitled groups the public won't have much time for.

They're definitely part of the problem and why the sport (professionally) may be imploding on itself

[MU82]

I never addressed his career earning from sponsorships. Playing in LIV I doubt would dry up his sponsorship deals. I would expect they may take a hit (his recent reduction in performance level and playing frequency may play into it also) but I am confident the LIV money would more than make up for it. If he could make $5,$6,$7,$8 or maybe $900MM from LIV it could possibly out pace what he's done in his career. Plus add the continuing/new sponsorship deals.

But, I agree with your point that if he were to lose essentially all his endorsement deals, it may be a wash and thus smart to turn down.

I guess it really comes down to 1. what is "high 9 figures"? $500MM or $990MM (usually in banker speak it would be north of $700MM; "mid 9 figures" would be $4-$700MM)? and 2. How long of a deal? 5 or 10 or 20 years?

I think the theory, mentioned in previous posts, that he has an issue with the Saudi's makes the most sense as to why he'd turn down the pay increase. It's crazy to an average Joe like me but I can respect a man for standing on principle.

Lastly, of course he can afford to turn down the money. He could have afforded to stop playing and endorsing products 15 years ago.

Tiger has more money than he, his kids, his kids' kids, his kids' kids' kids, etc, can ever spend. He has a legacy, too. Plus all those hundreds of millions of dollars in sponsorship deals. It sounds crazy, but he literally doesn't need their money.

Is Tiger "standing on principle"? Well, neither of us knows what's in his heart and mind. But Tiger hasn't been very big on that so far in his professional life.