Golf 2022

[WhiteTrash]

I will say that the PGA's initial reaction of threatening to ban people, etc. was not a smart one.  They should have used this as a call to reform and listen to the players.  Instead they just set themselves up to not being able to match what the Saudis were eventually going to offer.

Especially since the USGA has said that LIV golfers can play in the US Open.  What if The Open follows suit?  And if the Masters wants these guys in the field, they are going to be in the field.

You comment on the PGA using this as an impetus for 'reform' , or whatever you want to call it, I think is correct. Herman mentioned conversations with PGA fat cats and my friend worked with the PGA for the BMW a few years ago that was at his club; he wasn't impressed with the PGA brass. Thought the whole thing was top heavy and he's no corporate guru of running a tight ship; he's loves the country club lifestyle and gives little thought to business. This is about all I know, so I maybe incorrect on what is really going on at the PGA. 

[RJax55]

The big question is whether LIV events will get OWGR points. If not, this is going to be a problem for them. That will limit some of the poaching in the short-term.

Also, I hope LIV players continue to stay eligible for the majors because on the whole I think they are going to struggle in them moving forward. There is plenty to criticize the Tour for, but the one big positive it has going for it is that the environment is hyper-competitive. I think it will show that the Tour is the best environment to prepare for and play well in the major championships. In my opinion, that will help the Tour keep the majority of it's best young talent.

LIV is going to be nothing like that. Limited events, no cuts, 54 holes, team events, etc. And, at the moment, limited younger players pushing the older guys. Plus, the best LIV golfers have a ton of guaranteed cash coming to them no matter their performance. All-in-all, I don't believe this is a combination that going to have these guys playing great golf come the majors. And, outside a few figures, pro golf is not a game where guys can simply turn it on.

[RJax55]

They've been trying for years.  Look at their soccer team purchases.  I think the PGA is the only major US based league that has the ability to be turned like that.  You don't need a full league worth of players like you would in other sports to have a comparable product.

True. I should have stated going all-in. Norman & Co. have an open checkbook on LIV. Spend until it works.

[cheebs09]

The big question is whether LIV events will get OWGR points. If not, this is going to be a problem for them. That will limit some of the poaching in the short-term.

Also, I hope LIV players continue to stay eligible for the majors because on the whole I think they are going to struggle in them moving forward. There is plenty to criticize the Tour for, but the one big positive it has going for it is that the environment is hyper-competitive. I think it will show that the Tour is the best environment to prepare for and play well in the major championships. In my opinion, that will help the Tour keep the majority of it's best young talent.

LIV is going to be nothing like that. Limited events, no cuts, 54 holes, team events, etc. And, at the moment, limited younger players pushing the older guys. Plus, the best LIV golfers have a ton of guaranteed cash coming to them no matter their performance. All-in-all, I don't believe this is a combination that going to have these guys playing great golf come the majors. And, outside a few figures, pro golf is not a game where guys can simply turn it on.

That will be interesting. When Johnson was listing how he was exempt for many of the majors, I was kind of curious how those exemptions would come in the future. Most are based on ranking, performance in PGA Tour events, and performance in the majors. It seems like other than the last one, those options are gone.

I'm sure adjustments could be made, but with the unique format and limited players now, I'm curious how they work it in.

[MU82]

Eh, why should the occasional beheading get in the way of making easy money?

Seriously, LIV already is a real threat and definitely could be a bigger one. Is it out of the realm of possibility that stars like McIlroy and Spieth change their minds and go for the dough? How about the likes of Zalatoris, Morikawa, Smith and Young? All of them are starting to see that there are few real repercussions of leaving the tour. I wouldn't be surprised if agents for at least a few of them, and others, have started checking with sponsors to gauge the reaction.

[MuggsyB]

True. I should have stated going all-in. Norman & Co. have an open checkbook on LIV. Spend until it works.

Saudi Arabia's main motive is not money.  It's essentially for world perception to "change" on their human rights record.  We all know these golfers and Norman are pawns. Apparently they don't know but the vast majority of the public understands this.  The Saudi government isn't going to run out of money to fund the LIV tour.  It's also ironic It's called LIV.

[The Sultan]

Apparently they don't know but the vast majority of the public understands this.

Do they though?  And, if they do, do they actually care?

I mean the World Cup is going to draw massive television numbers despite the horrible human rights abuses of Qatar.

[RJax55]

Saudi Arabia's main motive is not money.  It's essentially for world perception to "change" on their human rights record.  We all know these golfers and Norman are pawns. Apparently they don't know but the vast majority of the public understands this.  The Saudi government isn't going to run out of money to fund the LIV tour.  It's also ironic It's called LIV.

Oh, I know.

That's why I feel the Tour is somewhat a victim here in what's happening. This isn't a remotely fair fight. Some (not on Scoop) like to pretend that LIV is just another upstart sports league. It ain't. LIV's funding and motives are entirely different than any other sports league.

Also, most of these golfers jumping ship know what they are doing. They are not that dumb. So some blame The Tour and pretend they are reformers who had no choice but to go to LIV (See Phil). Others talk about "growing the game" or that the game will bring good things to the Saudi people nonsense (See McDowell). Others simply don't care as long as the check clears (See DJ). At least, the last group is honest.

[MuggsyB]

Eh, why should the occasional beheading get in the way of making easy money?

Seriously, LIV already is a real threat and definitely could be a bigger one. Is it out of the realm of possibility that stars like McIlroy and Spieth change their minds and go for the dough? How about the likes of Zalatoris, Morikawa, Smith and Young? All of them are starting to see that there are few real repercussions of leaving the tour. I wouldn't be surprised if agents for at least a few of them, and others, have started checking with sponsors to gauge the reaction.

I don't think the PGA tour can compete monetarily but it wouldn't surprise me if they make some changes.  Perhaps top 50 players will get additional compensation for their actual ranking....something like that.

[Uncle Rico]

Oh, I know.

That's why I feel the Tour is somewhat a victim here in what's happening. This isn't a remotely fair fight. Some (not on Scoop) like to pretend that LIV is just another upstart sports league. It ain't. LIV's funding and motives are entirely different than any other sports league.

Also, most of these golfers jumping ship know what they are doing. They are not that dumb. So some blame The Tour and pretend they are reformers who had no choice but to go to LIV (See Phil). Others talk about "growing the game" or that the game will bring good things to the Saudi people nonsense (See McDowell). Others simply don't care as long as the check clears (See DJ). At least, the last group is honest.

The PGA Tour is dead

[MuggsyB]

Oh, I know.

That's why I feel the Tour is somewhat a victim here in what's happening. This isn't a remotely fair fight. Some (not on Scoop) like to pretend that LIV is just another upstart sports league. It ain't. LIV's funding and motives are entirely different than any other sports league.

Also, most of these golfers jumping ship know what they are doing. They are not that dumb. So some blame The Tour and pretend they are reformers who had no choice but to go to LIV (See Phil). Others talk about "growing the game" or that the game will bring good things to the Saudi people nonsense (See McDowell). Others simply don't care as long as the check clears (See DJ). At least, the last group is honest.

Ya....most of the answers I've heard from these players are a joke and knowingly dishonest.  Now, it's true there are other athletes that take big cash through endorsements in China.  I think the difference is the actual fund that will be paying these golfers comes directly from the Saudi Government.  The whole thing stinks to high heaven imo.

[MuggsyB]

The PGA Tour is dead

Ya think?  I won't watch but the shotgun starts are super weird if they are interested in fan interest and making their tournament watchable.

[cheebs09]

Ya think?  I won't watch but the shotgun starts are super weird if they are interested in fan interest and making their tournament watchable.

Wouldn't it shorten the time needed to broadcast? Baseball can barely keep people entertained for 3 hours. I would assume doing a shotgun starts means more of the tournament is captured by TV and increases how much of the tournament people watch.

[MuggsyB]

Wouldn't it shorten the time needed to broadcast? Baseball can barely keep people entertained for 3 hours. I would assume doing a shotgun starts means more of the tournament is captured by TV and increases how much of the tournament people watch.

I don't think it works nor is it necessary for 54 players.  You could have guys competing to win on holes 3, 7, and 12.  It seems like a clown show to me. 

[tower912]

It is an exhibition for now.    Like 'The Match', only with some more names and a lot more Saudi money.

[WarriorFan]

I think it's great to give the PGA tour some competition.  They have been bullies too long.  For example,  When I lived in Asia, every Asian tour event would invite some PGA players to give the tournament some extra draw for TV and on-site spectators.  Inevitably one of the PGA players would win and inevitably the PGA would not give the same player an exception to return to that tournament the next year to defend his title!!! 

Guys could make good money on LIV, go and play a few more events on the European or Asian tour, and really boost the global game of golf at a time when it needs it. 

If you have a problem with Saudi money, stop putting fuel in your car.  I think it's great that they are spending some of their money to improve a sport I enjoy!

[Uncle Rico]

I think it's great to give the PGA tour some competition.  They have been bullies too long.  For example,  When I lived in Asia, every Asian tour event would invite some PGA players to give the tournament some extra draw for TV and on-site spectators.  Inevitably one of the PGA players would win and inevitably the PGA would not give the same player an exception to return to that tournament the next year to defend his title!!! 

Guys could make good money on LIV, go and play a few more events on the European or Asian tour, and really boost the global game of golf at a time when it needs it. 

If you have a problem with Saudi money, stop putting fuel in your car.  I think it's great that they are spending some of their money to improve a sport I enjoy!

If you think they're spending to improve the sport, I have a bridge to sell you.  Also, 5% of our imported oil comes out of Saudi Arabia

[WhiteTrash]

LIV is going to be nothing like that. Limited events, no cuts, 54 holes, team events, etc. And, at the moment, limited younger players pushing the older guys. Plus, the best LIV golfers have a ton of guaranteed cash coming to them no matter their performance. All-in-all, I don't believe this is a combination that going to have these guys playing great golf come the majors. And, outside a few figures, pro golf is not a game where guys can simply turn it on.

I think this is a good point but you have to remember, the prize money in LIV is significantly higher than even the majors. Lots of motivation.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I think the ratings are gonna be horrific. Like honestly, who is tuning in to see DJ and a bunch of washed up pros.

Like others have said, it doesn't really matter because they can basically print money, but there no growing of the game with mediocre pros.

[Uncle Rico]

I think the ratings are gonna be horrific. Like honestly, who is tuning in to see DJ and a bunch of washed up pros.

Like others have said, it doesn't really matter because they can basically print money, but there no growing of the game with mediocre pros.

Growing the game is the lamest talking point they have.  If these guys cared about growing the game, they would have played overseas more.  When the WGC's came to be, the match play was supposed to travel the globe but American players groused about it and that's part of why most of the events were in the states

[rocket surgeon]

That will be interesting. When Johnson was listing how he was exempt for many of the majors, I was kind of curious how those exemptions would come in the future. Most are based on ranking, performance in PGA Tour events, and performance in the majors. It seems like other than the last one, those options are gone.

I'm sure adjustments could be made, but with the unique format and limited players now, I'm curious how they work it in.

  interesting if the majors exemptions are tied into "other indicators" or prerequisites. however, some of these players, particularly dj, patrick, lefty, and bryson (and those yet to be announced)may be dealing from standpoint of strength.  after tiger, these guys have a pretty good draw unless the fans say to hell with them   

[RJax55]

I think this is a good point but you have to remember, the prize money in LIV is significantly higher than even the majors. Lots of motivation.

For guys like Chase Koepka, sure. The giant purse will definitely be a motivator.

But, for the stars (Phil, DJ, Bryson), they are getting their fat check no matter what. Are these guys going to be grinding it out for extra LIV money, no way. That's why they are joining LIV in the first place. It is all about the guaranteed money.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

For guys like Chase Koepka, sure. The giant purse will definitely be a motivator.

But, for the stars (Phil, DJ, Bryson), they are getting their fat check no matter what. As these guys going to be grinding it out for extra LIV money, no way. That's why they are joining LIV in the first place. It is all about the guaranteed money.

That would probably be the most embarrassing outcome for the LIV.

Pros going over there for the guaranteed cash, and not even playing in half the events, if any.

I'm sure there are contractual obligations but would be funny if a lot of these guys were "injured" on any given week.

[JWags85]

I think the ratings are gonna be horrific. Like honestly, who is tuning in to see DJ and a bunch of washed up pros.

Like others have said, it doesn't really matter because they can basically print money, but there no growing of the game with mediocre pros.

"washed up pros" no longer plays with recent additions. 

Bryson was a top 10 player before he's recently been sidelined.

Patrick Reed is still a top 30 ranked player who was top 10 less than 2 years ago and is only 31.

Rickie has been in a slump but you're still talking 6 major top 10s in the last 5 seasons.

I would have agreed with you until the names started coming in this week.  And that would lead me to believe more are listening.

[RJax55]

That would probably be the most embarrassing outcome for the LIV.

Pros going over there for the guaranteed cash, and not even playing in half the events, if any.

I'm sure there are contractual obligations but would be funny if a lot of these guys were "injured" on any given week.

Would be funny.

The rumor is that LIV will move to 15 events next year. They better watch out though. If they add to that number, I bet some guys will start to moan.