Top 40 Defense

[Silkk the Shaka]

Many of the people who were staunchly advocating for Shaka to be hired this past spring liked to bring up that he always has top 40 defenses and you could rely on that (had 10 consecutive dating back to VCU)

This year we are currently 59 in DRating at KenPom.

For those more intimately knowledgeable on his defenses, should we expect that to improve safely into the top 40 range this year? Are we doing anything differently tactic-wise than he has done in that past? Is it that he doesn't have the ideal player fits yet? Or do we just need more "time on task" so to speak to become more of a well-oiled machine on the defensive end?

I'll hang up and listen.

[WarriorFan]

I expect the defense will improve as the year progresses.  It's already nice to see all 5 guys on the court playing D and it's nice to see the rim protection.  What I don't see yet is the press/trap/zone press sets working consistently and the reason I think the defense will improve is:
a) some low scoring big east slug fests, some of which MU will win
b) as the team learns how to play together and as the freshmen mature, the full and 3/4 court defenses will improve.

There have been 2-3 plays every game where someone gets totally lost or out of position and the opposition gets an easy dunk or lay-in.  Those are tolerable up until this point in the season.  Starting Saturday, they must be completely eliminated.

[Goose]

I believe the D will improve and rotations that work will be found and utilized. While I have not been impressed with the results of the D thus far, I am a fan of the aggressive nature being used. There is a lot of work to do, but I feel that we will see ongoing improvement in the upcoming weeks.

[Shooter McGavin]

Many of the people who were staunchly advocating for Shaka to be hired this past spring liked to bring up that he always has top 40 defenses and you could rely on that (had 10 consecutive dating back to VCU)

This year we are currently 59 in DRating at KenPom.

For those more intimately knowledgeable on his defenses, should we expect that to improve safely into the top 40 range this year? Are we doing anything differently tactic-wise than he has done in that past? Is it that he doesn't have the ideal player fits yet? Or do we just need more "time on task" so to speak to become more of a well-oiled machine on the defensive end?

I'll hang up and listen.

This is kind of what I was referencing the other day with my Kenpom question.  If they had randomly slotted us higher originally would our body of work this year be good enough to have us higher in their rankings.

The answer is we have to wait til sometime in January when data from last year are eliminated from his equation. 

[swoopem]

I believe the D will improve and rotations that work will be found and utilized. While I have not been impressed with the results of the D thus far, I am a fan of the aggressive nature being used. There is a lot of work to do, but I feel that we will see ongoing improvement in the upcoming weeks.

Yup, as Shaka has said many times: one of his 3 key principles is growth. They’ll only get better

[MU82]

We'll see!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This doesn't look like a top 40 defense to me yet. Our weakest spot on defense is defensive rebounding, we are giving up way too many second chances. Shaka has been able to correct that in individual games, for example, in the New Hampshire game we gave up 8 offensive boards before the second media timeout but the rest of the game we only gave up 1. This makes me hopeful that he will eventually correct it for the season.

Fix the defensive rebounding, cut down on fouls a little bit (we're okay at not fouling, not great) and continue to improve on the deflections and I think we end up with a top 40 defense.

[esotericmindguy]

This is kind of what I was referencing the other day with my Kenpom question.  If they had randomly slotted us higher originally would our body of work this year be good enough to have us higher in their rankings.
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The answer is we have to wait til sometime in January when data from last year are eliminated from his equation.

It's my understand that its based of points per possession allowed. The 59 ranking does adjust for factors that they don't describe. So adjusted they're 59 (0.95 PPP) and unadjusted 66 (0.91).

I do think the press allows for way to many easy buckets. I'd like to see they defensive numbers in the half court. I don't think this team is built to press. Disciplined teams like WI or veteran teams like Bonny will beat them.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

One of the reasons our half court defense is successful is because the press takes 10-15 seconds off the shot clock and wears the opponent down in the second half.

The purpose of this press is not meant to generate live ball turnovers (though that is a byproduct of it). The purpose is to throw off the opponent's offensive scheme leading to dead ball turnovers and poor shooting. A cost of this strategy is the occasional easy bucket given up. As long as we improve and limit those easy buckets to 2 or 3 a game, the strategy will be successful.

[Goose]

TAMU

Agreed on the purpose of the full court press and how the half court D benefits from it. In addition, if we could get defensive rebound our D rating would go up a great deal.

[rocky_warrior]

I don't pay for Kenpom anymore, but looking at T-rank, the "Adjusted Defense" is current ranked #65 and the trend has been that it is getting better.  Go here and pull down the chart for adjusted defense.

That said, I also looked at his last 3 years at Texas, and last 3 at VCU. In all of those years, his defense either stayed flat, or trended worse as the season went on.  FWIW.

[Herman Cain]

Every game has its own unique set of circumstances .

So my definition of Defense is did the other team score less than us. 7-1 record demonstrates that we have played good defense .

[rocky_warrior]

And FWIW, all the talk of "it's too early for kenpom/t-rank" is becoming obsolete.  I think they both phase out last years data over the course of 13 games.  So, after 8, we've got over half the data we need to compare MU to other teams. It is worthwhile to see how we're trending vs. them. 

So far, for overall t-rank we're trending down from where preseason stats placed us, which only means other teams are outperforming their expectations, not necessarily that MU is worse.  But it does have us at #96 (started at #89, peak of 81, low of 104).  The next 5 games will either catapult us up (optimistic), or, more likely, cement us in the 80s/90s. 

Edit: phases out over 13 "adjusted games", which Torvik claims generally ends up being 15 or 16 actual games

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Every game has its own unique set of circumstances .

So my definition of Defense is did the other team score less than us. 7-1 record demonstrates that we have played good defense .

Thanks John Madden

[MU82]

Every game has its own unique set of circumstances .

So my definition of Defense is did the other team score less than us. 7-1 record demonstrates that we have played good defense .

Who knew that we were such a great defensive team during the Rowsey/Markus years?!?!

One of the reasons our half court defense is successful is because the press takes 10-15 seconds off the shot clock and wears the opponent down in the second half.

The purpose of this press is not meant to generate live ball turnovers (though that is a byproduct of it). The purpose is to throw off the opponent's offensive scheme leading to dead ball turnovers and poor shooting. A cost of this strategy is the occasional easy bucket given up. As long as we improve and limit those easy buckets to 2 or 3 a game, the strategy will be successful.

This. Lots of times, even when there are turnovers, they happen in the frontcourt after the opponent seemingly has broken the press. They get sped up and/or sloppy. Or they take a bad, rushed shot, which is basically the same as a turnover (as long as the pressing team gets the rebound).

There are all kinds of reasons for pressing. I share your hope that ours gets better.

[Dr. Blackheart]

This doesn't look like a top 40 defense to me yet. Our weakest spot on defense is defensive rebounding, we are giving up way too many second chances. Shaka has been able to correct that in individual games, for example, in the New Hampshire game we gave up 8 offensive boards before the second media timeout but the rest of the game we only gave up 1. This makes me hopeful that he will eventually correct it for the season.

Fix the defensive rebounding, cut down on fouls a little bit (we're okay at not fouling, not great) and continue to improve on the deflections and I think we end up with a top 40 defense.

Besides these points, I think the best way to improve the defense yet is to improve the offense. MU is playing way too fast, launching on early threes leading to long rebounds or quick turnovers which lead to break-outs the other way. MU's near proximity defense is one of the worst in the land as a result.

[tower912]

Shaka's offense is Shaka's offense.   Pick and roll and dribble drive.   Take the open 3, regardless of who you are.   Emphasis on 3's and  lay ups.    So there are going to be long rebounds, there is going to be dribbling into traffic.     Until the guys grow into it.    He clearly has given everybody on the team the green light.   

I would love to see more dribble, drive, dish opposite, lather, rinse, repeat, a la Buzz and the midgets.    That isn't this coach or this team.     So, sit back and watch.   

[GooooMarquette]

This is kind of what I was referencing the other day with my Kenpom question.  If they had randomly slotted us higher originally would our body of work this year be good enough to have us higher in their rankings.

The answer is we have to wait til sometime in January when data from last year are eliminated from his equation.

Yep. KenPom is kinda meaningless when it includes last season’s numbers. Especially true with a new coach and almost totally new roster.

[Nukem2]

Warren Nolan.com’s CBB site still cranks out the RPI #s just for fun.  MU is #18 and WI is #11.  fwiw

[MarquetteDano]

One of the reasons our half court defense is successful is because the press takes 10-15 seconds off the shot clock and wears the opponent down in the second half.

The purpose of this press is not meant to generate live ball turnovers (though that is a byproduct of it). The purpose is to throw off the opponent's offensive scheme leading to dead ball turnovers and poor shooting. A cost of this strategy is the occasional easy bucket given up. As long as we improve and limit those easy buckets to 2 or 3 a game, the strategy will be successful.

This.  Our defensive rebounding has been atrocious.  If we go from letting up 30% of opponents misses as offensive rebounds to,  let's say,  25% (which right now would only be like 80th in the country) this will be a good defense.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Shaka's offense is Shaka's offense.   Pick and roll and dribble drive.   Take the open 3, regardless of who you are.   Emphasis on 3's and  lay ups.    So there are going to be long rebounds, there is going to be dribbling into traffic.     Until the guys grow into it.    He clearly has given everybody on the team the green light.   

I would love to see more dribble, drive, dish opposite, lather, rinse, repeat, a la Buzz and the midgets.    That isn't this coach or this team.     So, sit back and watch.

They are playing almost four seconds faster than any other Shaka team, including his super fast VCU teams. Listening to the Nevada Smith podcast, that’s the intent as we know, and we will see how successful that is. He has confidence that our shooters will come around on the quick threes. If they do and our freshmen growing pains dissipate, this can be a Top 40 Defense.

[Goose]

I am 100% on board with the pace of play and philosophy behind it. I fully expect better shooting days ahead and it will make a world of difference. As a matter of fact, they can speed it up even more, IMO.

[Uncle Rico]

Offense wins nattys

[MU82]

I am 100% on board with the pace of play and philosophy behind it. I fully expect better shooting days ahead and it will make a world of difference. As a matter of fact, they can speed it up even more, IMO.

Given the shooters' histories, I'm not as confident that something suddenly will click. Morsell, for example, appears to have had a revision to the mean these last 4 games after an absurdly good start that was nothing like 4 years of history suggested was possible. But maybe. I hope you're right, Goose.

[Shooter McGavin]

Given the shooters' histories, I'm not as confident that something suddenly will click. Morsell, for example, appears to have had a revision to the mean these last 4 games after an absurdly good start that was nothing like 4 years of history suggested was possible. But maybe. I hope you're right, Goose.

When Morsell is not forcing shots he looks pretty smooth on his threes and midrange shots and probably is capable of averaging 15 ppg.   20 ppg was excessive.