2022 MLB Thread

[BM1090]

I find it fascinating that some here only are able to come up with one criticism for Trout.

That is that he has teammates who are not good players.

What would be another criticism? He's the clear best baseball player of his era.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

What would be another criticism? He's the clear best baseball player of his era.

I mean, He did kinda choke in his one playoffs appearance in his 11 year career.

Got swept out of the first round despite having the best record in the AL that year.

[The Sultan]

It's just such a ridiculously small sample size though. It's just inconceivable to me that in this day and age, where over half the franchises have made the playoffs in the last two seasons, that the Angels can't build something around him. One playoff appearance in 12 seasons???

[tower912]

Yeah!  (says the Matthew Stafford/Lions fan)

[The Sultan]

Yeah!  (says the Matthew Stafford/Lions fan)

And the Lions made the playoffs with Stafford THREE times!!!

[Lennys Tap]

It's just such a ridiculously small sample size though. It's just inconceivable to me that in this day and age, where over half the franchises have made the playoffs in the last two seasons, that the Angels can't build something around him. One playoff appearance in 12 seasons???

The Angels wasted a ton of money on Pujols and Rendon. Their pitching has been often injured and not very good when healthy. Bad management.

[MUBurrow]

Brewers DFA Lorenzo Cain today. On the day he reaches 10 years of service time.

Yeah seems like everyone handled this in the most classy way possible.  With 10 years of service time, Cain's lifetime membership in the PA vests and he gets the pension.  All the Cain quotes are super classy and understanding.  Unfortunately on a team with an offense predicated on playing matchups with slightly above replacement level players, rostering Cain, Taylor, and McCutcheon is dreadfully redundant.

[MU82]

I'd have given Trout AL player of the year many times. He's awesome.

[JWags85]

It's just such a ridiculously small sample size though. It's just inconceivable to me that in this day and age, where over half the franchises have made the playoffs in the last two seasons, that the Angels can't build something around him. One playoff appearance in 12 seasons???

And they've had the best hitter/pitcher two way player in multiple generations for the last 4 years and its still not mattered.

In the last 8 seasons, the Halos have had the AL MVP 50% of the time.  And they've managed to finish above 3rd, just twice...IN THEIR DIVISION.  Its monumental suckage.

[PGsHeroes32]

And they've had the best hitter/pitcher two way player in multiple generations for the last 4 years and its still not mattered.

In the last 8 seasons, the Halos have had the AL MVP 50% of the time.  And they've managed to finish above 3rd, just twice...IN THEIR DIVISION.  Its monumental suckage.

Dont get me wrong. The Angels have been embarrassing for many, many, reasons.

But the bolded part isnt the best story.

Really the only year Ohtani was the true two way player was last years historic year and Trout was injured for almost the whole year.

2020 was the Rona year where Ohtani sucked at the plate and pitched like an inning. And he didnt pitch in 2019 either.

Last year and this year are him truly become a full time everyday player.

But yeah, Angels do really suck. Basically every signing they have attempted in the Trout era has been brutal. They have some promising bats now. Still zero pitching or depth behind the potential of Ward/Walsh/Marsh.

[JWags85]

Dont get me wrong. The Angels have been embarrassing for many, many, reasons.

But the bolded part isnt the best story.

Really the only year Ohtani was the true two way player was last years historic year and Trout was injured for almost the whole year.

2020 was the Rona year where Ohtani sucked at the plate and pitched like an inning. And he didnt pitch in 2019 either.

Last year and this year are him truly become a full time everyday player.

But yeah, Angels do really suck. Basically every signing they have attempted in the Trout era has been brutal. They have some promising bats now. Still zero pitching or depth behind the potential of Ward/Walsh/Marsh.

I just wanted to give Ohtani his proper headline.  He was ROY in 2018 and hit well in 2019.  So even before he was a beast last year, he was a really good young piece.

But the rest, dead on.  They just have a complete and utter inability to build a competent full roster.

[Dish]

It's going to be difficult to keep Andrew Vaughn off the AL All Star roster. He's hitting .416 the last 3 weeks, has three 4 hit games the last two weeks, fourth in the AL in batting for the year. Dude just rakes.

[MU82]

In the last 8 seasons, the Halos have had the AL MVP 50% of the time.

Makes one wonder what the "V" stands for.

[PGsHeroes32]

Makes one wonder what the "V" stands for.

Things like WAR show the exact standing of "V"

Your too hung up on a already arbitrary definion of what an Mvp should be.........in other sports.

Baseball is a completely different animal. The criteria simply cannot be the same as basketball.

Now if the Twins could actively make the decision to bat Byron Buxton 1 time an inning whenever they want?? Yeah, winning a lot of ball games may be a great emphasis like Basketball.

[MU82]

Things like WAR show the exact standing of "V"

Your too hung up on a already arbitrary definion of what an Mvp should be.........in other sports.

Baseball is a completely different animal. The criteria simply cannot be the same as basketball.

We'll agree to disagree. Over the years, I've seen too many outstanding -- and valuable -- baseball players carry their teams to greatness.

[PGsHeroes32]

We'll agree to disagree. Over the years, I've seen too many outstanding -- and valuable -- baseball players carry their teams to greatness.

Who?

[JWags85]

Who?

Certainly not Ken Griffey Jr.

Not Ichiro

Not Joey Votto.

Not A Rod until he was a Yankee.

Not Frank Thomas.

Not Bryce Harper.

Baseball's recent history is littered with MVPs and surefire HOF talent that couldn't overcome bad or average teams cause individual impact can be so often negated.

[MU82]

Who?

2020 - Abreu and Freeman lead White Sox and Braves to playoffs.

2019 - Bellinger leads Dodgers to best record in baseball.

2018 - Betts and Yelich lead their teams to best records in their leagues.

2017 - Altuve leads Astros to 100+ wins.

2016 - Bryant leads Cubs to best record in baseball.

2015 - Donaldson leads Jays to division title; Harper keeps Washington in race till final week.

2014 - Trout and Kershaw lead their teams to division titles.

2013 - Cabrera leads Tigers to division title; McCutchen leads Pirates into playoffs.

2012 - Cabrera and Posey lead their teams to division titles.

2011 - Verlander and Braun lead their teams to division titles.

It's not that difficult to find very deserving players almost every year who actually lead their teams to something (or at least close to something).

I realize I used the term "carry their teams to greatness," and that was probably too strong a term for most of the above. But certainly fine players had outstanding seasons to lead their teams to successful seasons.

[PGsHeroes32]

2020 - Abreu and Freeman lead White Sox and Braves to playoffs.

2019 - Bellinger leads Dodgers to best record in baseball.

2018 - Betts and Yelich lead their teams to best records in their leagues.

2017 - Altuve leads Astros to 100+ wins.

2016 - Bryant leads Cubs to best record in baseball.

2015 - Donaldson leads Jays to division title; Harper keeps Washington in race till final week.

2014 - Trout and Kershaw lead their teams to division titles.

2013 - Cabrera leads Tigers to division title; McCutchen leads Pirates into playoffs.

2012 - Cabrera and Posey lead their teams to division titles.

2011 - Verlander and Braun lead their teams to division titles.

It's not that difficult to find very deserving players almost every year who actually lead their teams to something (or at least close to something).

I realize I used the term "carry their teams to greatness," and that was probably too strong a term for most of the above. But certainly fine players had outstanding seasons to lead their teams to successful seasons.

It was definitely too strong. You referenced a bunch of guys on stacked teams. With Lineup support and most importanly pitching aces. Basically the only knock on Trout over his career is that hes not able to also throw 200 innings of dominant ball.

For example. The 2013 Tigers had Scherzer, Verlander, Fister, Sanchez and Porcello. Porcello threw the fewest innings at 177 and had the worst FIP at 3.53

2016 Angles had Jered Weaver and his 5.06 ERA nad 5.62 FIP lead them in innings at 178. The other starters with any sort of innings were Matt Shoemaker, Hector Santiago, Jhoulys Chacin, Ricky Nolaso(haha). Only 1 of those guys hit 125 innings.

The Astros didnt dominate because of Altuve. They dominated because they had Altuve and 8 other all star level players. Same for Bellys Dodgers and Betts Red Sox etc...

[The Sultan]

I'm also not understanding how a baseball player can "lead their team to something." Baseball is a series of individual match-ups that are loosely meshed together to be a team sport.

What exactly could Trout have done to "lead" his team?  He isn't a pitcher.  He can't bat more. 

Giving an MVP to a lesser player because his team does better is giving that player "points" for something he didn't do.

[Uncle Rico]

I'm also not understanding how a baseball player can "lead their team to something." Baseball is a series of individual match-ups that are loosely meshed together to be a team sport.

What exactly could Trout have done to "lead" his team?  He isn't a pitcher.  He can't bat more. 

Giving an MVP to a lesser player because his team does better is giving that player "points" for something he didn't do.

Yup.  Trout is the best player of his generation by a mile

[MUBurrow]

Piggybacking on PGs, its fun to go through the list 82 provided and look at the pitching staffs for each team with an MVP.  It provides great context and is a great chance to remember some guys, which is my favorite activity. Without going through them all, here are some examples of the ones I cherrypicked because I would have guessed they would be the worst, in addition to PGs listing the 2013 Tigers:

2013 Pirates: AJ Burnett, Francisco Liriano, Gerrit Cole, Charlie Morton - all 100+ IP and sub 4.00 FIP
2015 Nats: Scherzer, Jordan Zimmerman, Gio Gonzalez, Strasburg - all 100+ IP and sub 4.00 FIP
2015 Blue Jays: None - though R.A. Dickey, Buehrle, and Marco Estrada each gave them more than 180 IP at under 4.50 FIP, so ate up hella innings for a team that led the league in slugging and wOBA. So they just mashed everyone to death.
2018 Brewers: None - though Chacin and Junior Guerra were close. And the Brewers were only 9th in slugging and 10th in wOBA. I guess there is your Platonic ideal of what '82 seems to be looking for - a player having a crazy good season on a team that defies the stats to win. 

[MU82]

I happen to believe that the MVP should play for a team that wins something, or at least is in contention for something until the season's end.

I understand others disagree.

The electorate does seem to have come around to the school of thought that the MVP can come from the worst team in baseball if he has the best stats, so those who agree with that can say they're "right."

[The Sultan]

OK, you think that an MVP should have better players as teammates - something the player has no control over.

It's just illogical.

[JWags85]

OK, you think that an MVP should have better players as teammates - something the player has no control over.

It's just illogical.

Not to mention, in baseball, unlike football or basketball or hockey, they can't "make their teammates better".  Aside from maybe a catcher.