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Author Topic: Bonnie game thread  (Read 3457 times)

goldeneagle91114

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Re: Bonnie game thread
« Reply #250 on: November 22, 2021, 09:33:25 AM »
Can we stop with the 10 freshmen. Three of them played over 20 games last year. We also have 3 five-year seniors and Oso who didn't play much but still has a year of DI experience. We do have 12 guys who played a total of 5 games each with this coach but we are not that inexperienced.

Ok, lets rephrase to Experience and continuity. We'll remove emotions and look at just facts & Stats. See Kenpom stats below.

This is what and how continuity is measured https://kenpom.com/blog/measuring-continuity/

MU ranks 338th in country (in minutes continuity)

As far as experience……

Experience Definition: Uses eligibility class weighted by minutes played. A freshman has no years experience, a sophomore has one year experience, etc.

MU ranks 350th out of 358 D1 teams at  at .79 years



panda

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Re: Bonnie game thread
« Reply #251 on: November 22, 2021, 09:48:10 AM »
One of our freshmen hit a game winner against Wisconsin last year and another won A10 rookie of the year. Lol

That’s why saying we have 10 freshmen on our roster is misleading.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Bonnie game thread
« Reply #252 on: November 22, 2021, 09:53:36 AM »
One of our freshmen hit a game winner against Wisconsin last year and another won A10 rookie of the year. Lol

That’s why saying we have 10 freshmen on our roster is misleading.


Again, the objective stats show that we are inexperienced.  On top of that, they have hardly played real, competitive games with one another.

It matters.  It will matter less as the season wears on.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

GOO

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Re: Bonnie game thread
« Reply #253 on: November 22, 2021, 09:54:25 AM »
I've been and am thrilled with the season so far.  It would be a good start for a deep experienced team.

Yesterday's game was what I expected to see this year, at least on the offensive side of the ball.  A team that can't score. I did expect better defense, overall, but there will be lapses with a young team.

So, great start, a loss to a quality team is not a bad thing this time of year.  How the team responds is what will count, and I expect this to be a learning experience with Shaka leading the way.

And, if we have to lose one, losing to St. Bonaventure is a nice one to lose.  I will be pulling for them all year and hoping for the best for them.  Love the smaller schools that put together a great team against all odds.

1SE

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Re: Bonnie game thread
« Reply #254 on: November 22, 2021, 09:59:08 AM »
Eh - good for a young team to get the doors blown off at least once - should build some bounceback.
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panda

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Re: Bonnie game thread
« Reply #255 on: November 22, 2021, 10:00:34 AM »

Again, the objective stats show that we are inexperienced.  On top of that, they have hardly played real, competitive games with one another.

It matters.  It will matter less as the season wears on.

Thanks ESPN.

It’s quite literally true we have 10 freshmen with covid rules. No one is disputing that.

It’s a lazy narrative from the broadcast dig the poster above toon 30 seconds to dug deeper with one stat, using one sentence.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Bonnie game thread
« Reply #256 on: November 22, 2021, 10:03:25 AM »
Thanks ESPN.

It’s quite literally true we have 10 freshmen with covid rules. No one is disputing that.

It’s a lazy narrative from the broadcast dig the poster above toon 30 seconds to dug deeper with one stat, using one sentence.


Do you understand who watches these games?  They aren't going to be dropping kenpom experience and continuity stats that lend more confusion than clarity.  It's just easier to say they're young.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

panda

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Re: Bonnie game thread
« Reply #257 on: November 22, 2021, 10:07:50 AM »

Do you understand who watches these games?  They aren't going to be dropping kenpom experience and continuity stats that lend more confusion than clarity.  It's just easier to say they're young.

It also sets up a conversation point to explain where Kolek came from or what Lewis did last season. Although I guess I’m not surprised this ESPN F squad went the extremely lazy route of reporting.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Bonnie game thread
« Reply #258 on: November 22, 2021, 10:09:35 AM »
It also sets up a conversation point to explain where Kolek came from or what Lewis did last season. Although I guess I’m not surprised this ESPN F squad went the extremely lazy route of reporting.


They aren't reporters.  They are game commentators.  You are expecting way too much from them.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

panda

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Re: Bonnie game thread
« Reply #259 on: November 22, 2021, 10:14:59 AM »

They aren't reporters.  They are game commentators.  You are expecting way too much from them.

Pick a different adjective/verb that means finding slightly interesting fact that tells a deeper story to tell an audience then.

panda

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Re: Bonnie game thread
« Reply #260 on: November 22, 2021, 10:19:36 AM »

They aren't reporters.  They are game commentators.  You are expecting way too much from them.

Basically I don’t want this to turn into another “Did you know Markus Howard is only X years old?!”

Mr. Nielsen

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Re: Bonnie game thread
« Reply #261 on: November 22, 2021, 10:36:06 AM »
Rich Hollenberg didn't have the best weekend for ESPN.  :-[
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Hards_Alumni

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Re: Bonnie game thread
« Reply #262 on: November 22, 2021, 10:44:27 AM »
Basically I don’t want this to turn into another “Did you know Markus Howard is only X years old?!”

But you've already done that.

Pakuni

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Re: Bonnie game thread
« Reply #263 on: November 22, 2021, 10:50:35 AM »
Yes, Marquette was the younger and less experienced team.
No, Marquette didn't lose because they were the younger and less experienced team.
They lost because the Bonnies were far better in every facet of the game.
If this had been a competitive game that came down to some key possessions at the end, I'd be more willing to buy the inexperience excuse.
But inexperience didn't cause Kolek, OMax and Morsell to shoot 1-for-18. Or for the defense to part like the Red Sea over and over again.

MU had the same lack of experience against Illinois, Ole Miss and West Virginia. Didn't cause them to poop the bed in those games.
We just got our tails kicked by a team that was much, much better across the board. Learn from it and move on to the next one.

panda

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Re: Bonnie game thread
« Reply #264 on: November 22, 2021, 10:55:34 AM »
But you've already done that.

No ESPN did it.

dad's couch

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Re: Bonnie game thread
« Reply #265 on: November 22, 2021, 11:22:01 AM »
Didn't mean to turn it in to a pissing match but then again it's Scoop. This team has 5 guys who started last year on their respective teams. How many teams can say they have 5 starters returning? Again. What we have is a bunch of guys for the most part never played together in a system they never played in.

goldeneagle91114

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Re: Bonnie game thread
« Reply #266 on: November 22, 2021, 12:16:56 PM »
Didn't mean to turn it in to a pissing match but then again it's Scoop. This team has 5 guys who started last year on their respective teams. How many teams can say they have 5 starters returning? Again. What we have is a bunch of guys for the most part never played together in a system they never played in.

Argue it how ever you want, but... As far as experience:

Experience Definition: Uses eligibility class weighted by minutes played. A freshman has no years experience, a sophomore has one year experience, etc.

MU ranks 350th out of 358 D1 teams at  at .79 years


brewcity77

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Re: Bonnie game thread
« Reply #267 on: November 22, 2021, 12:31:36 PM »
This team has 5 guys who started last year on their respective teams. How many teams can say they have 5 starters returning?

5 starters returning? That feels a bit dubious...

  • Darryl Morsell, 26/30 starts: He missed one game, but that definitely qualifies as a starter.
  • Tyler Kolek, 18/21 starts: Also clearly qualifies.
  • Kur Kuath, 15/27 starts: I guess more than a spot starter, tied for fifth on the team in starts, so close enough.
  • Greg Elliott, 5/27 starts: This is where it gets questionable. Did Greg start some games? Yes. Was he a starter, not really.
  • Olivier-Maxence Prosper, 2/24 starts: Technically, he started, but two games, the same number of times he eclipsed 20 minutes? That's not what you're calling a starter, is it?
  • Justin Lewis, 1/27 starts: He started 1 game. 1! Would we have called Jayce Johnson a starter in 2020 because he took the tip on Senior Night? This is just silly.
At best, we have 3 "starters" returning. Regardless, this is not an experienced team by any stretch of the imagination and your attempts to say otherwise are at best disingenuous.
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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Bonnie game thread
« Reply #268 on: November 22, 2021, 12:31:59 PM »
Lots of thoughts here but in the end, MU had its third worst OE game in their KPom's history. And the Bonnie's had their worst OE game since 2020.

Fix the half court O. Our Defense is elite.

The Equalizer

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Re: Bonnie game thread
« Reply #269 on: November 22, 2021, 12:39:55 PM »
Thanks ESPN.

It’s quite literally true we have 10 freshmen with covid rules. No one is disputing that.

It’s a lazy narrative from the broadcast dig the poster above toon 30 seconds to dug deeper with one stat, using one sentence.

I think the problem with the way the networks (and schools) have chosen to frame this in terms of eligibility, not experience. 

Calling Lewis, Kolek, or Ighadoro "freshmen" because they have 3 more years of eligibility after this season is confusing to those to think a freshman is in his first year playing D1 and has zero experience before this season.

I think it's a fair request that when commentators throw out comments like "Marquette has 10 freshmen" they point out that five of them have actually had a season of D1 experience, 1 is redshirting and not playing at all this season, and four are true first-year players with no prior D1 experience.

And this isn't a huge ask--the commentators know this is going to be the case for every team in the country.  When you do your game prep, know the difference between a COVID-related classification freshman, and those really have no D1 experience. 




OffTheGlass

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Re: Bonnie game thread
« Reply #270 on: November 22, 2021, 12:49:36 PM »
Not at all what he was saying, IMO.

Exactly. My point being that you don’t load up with more than Morsell and Kuath. Great grabs but you dont rebuild by adding much more than what we have done so.

panda

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Re: Bonnie game thread
« Reply #271 on: November 22, 2021, 01:14:19 PM »
I think the problem with the way the networks (and schools) have chosen to frame this in terms of eligibility, not experience. 

Calling Lewis, Kolek, or Ighadoro "freshmen" because they have 3 more years of eligibility after this season is confusing to those to think a freshman is in his first year playing D1 and has zero experience before this season.

I think it's a fair request that when commentators throw out comments like "Marquette has 10 freshmen" they point out that five of them have actually had a season of D1 experience, 1 is redshirting and not playing at all this season, and four are true first-year players with no prior D1 experience.

And this isn't a huge ask--the commentators know this is going to be the case for every team in the country.  When you do your game prep, know the difference between a COVID-related classification freshman, and those really have no D1 experience.

Precisely. There is more context and nuance beyond the 10 freshmen comment.

 

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