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27-10

Author Topic: Get Rid of the Charge  (Read 16237 times)

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2023, 11:48:47 PM »
Separate from that, can someone explain the rule where Oso was fouled with the clock stopped at the end of the game? I thought that was supposed to be two shots and the ball?

Your thought is correct.  That and the Kolek charge were absurd calls. 

Not quite. What you are describing is a type of Flagrant 1 foul which is 1 shot and the ball. Flagrant 1s are personal fouls that are deemed "excessive in nature" and/or "avoidable". Fouling before the clock starts is allowed but you need to make sure that the ref doesn't view it as "excessive in nature" or "avoidable". I would translate this as intentional. If the ref thinks you intentionally fouled to stop the clock, it's a Flagrant 1. If he thinks it's incidental, common foul.

The chrage on Kolek was bogus
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WarriorFan

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2023, 12:04:36 AM »
This is an area where the European/International rules (or enforcement thereof) is much better than NCAA / NBA.  There still exists a charge rule, but the defender has to be there long enough to get a parking ticket in order to get the call. 

This whole thing with defenders rushing into/under the driving/leaping player will unfortunately end with a severe injury unless there is a rule change first.   The safety issue is far more important than the difficulty for the average college ref to get it right.
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The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2023, 04:31:13 AM »
Separate from that, can someone explain the rule where Oso was fouled with the clock stopped at the end of the game? I thought that was supposed to be two shots and the ball?

I might be wrong about this, but only if it’s judged excessive. It’s not automatic.
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Uncle Rico

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2023, 06:12:08 AM »
White people love the charge
Ramsey head thoroughly up his ass.

willie warrior

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2023, 06:18:41 AM »
Racist, George
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muwarrior69

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2023, 06:39:08 AM »
I can remember when just about any contact with a player was called a foul.

Scoop Snoop

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2023, 06:40:46 AM »
I can remember when just about any contact with a player was called a foul.

I can too. This season's Providence game. But only one team.
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Uncle Rico

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2023, 06:47:22 AM »
I can remember when just about any contact with a player was called a foul.

I can remember when women didn’t wear pants
Ramsey head thoroughly up his ass.

GB Warrior

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2023, 07:10:24 AM »
I might be wrong about this, but only if it’s judged excessive. It’s not automatic.

Feels like everyone should just be overly aggressive on the inbounds then, so as to never allow time to fall off.

I'd think it'd fall under 'unsportsmanlike behavior' or 'delay of game'

Lennys Tap

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2023, 07:24:56 AM »
I might be wrong about this, but only if it’s judged excessive. It’s not automatic.

Is it intentional, excessive or either one?

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2023, 07:29:39 AM »
Is it intentional, excessive or either one?

Not quite. What you are describing is a type of Flagrant 1 foul which is 1 shot and the ball. Flagrant 1s are personal fouls that are deemed "excessive in nature" and/or "avoidable". Fouling before the clock starts is allowed but you need to make sure that the ref doesn't view it as "excessive in nature" or "avoidable". I would translate this as intentional. If the ref thinks you intentionally fouled to stop the clock, it's a Flagrant 1. If he thinks it's incidental, common foul.
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The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2023, 07:52:01 AM »
Thanks TAMU. But the reality is, there is little chance you are calling a Flagrant 1 in that scenario. It would have to be pretty blatant for that to happen.
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MU82

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2023, 07:55:25 AM »
I thought it was borderline. I'm neither surprised nor outraged that the ref didn't call it, but it wouldn't have been a bad call had he deemed it a flagrant.

I'm just grateful that the ref wasn't conned into calling an offensive foul on O-Max!
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PGsHeroes32

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2023, 08:01:35 AM »
Yeah I had no problem with the Oso one just being a foul. Tough to call intent there. And it just looks worse since it happened to be Oso.

The TK charge was criminal though.
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cheebs09

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2023, 08:35:46 AM »
Thanks TAMU. But the reality is, there is little chance you are calling a Flagrant 1 in that scenario. It would have to be pretty blatant for that to happen.

I think it would have to be a hack-a-Shaq type of foul, right? My view was blocked, but it seemed like the Oso foul was just a regular off the ball foul as Oso was trying to get open. Although, I’m sure intentional in some way.

Its DJOver

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2023, 08:40:32 AM »
I'm sure that fouling the right guy just hard enough to avoid a flagrant without time coming off the clock is something that teams work on as part of their end of game scenarios.  Credit to UConn for executing, credit to Oso/Stevie for making them pay.
I'll stick with my opinion on Gold.  He'll be in foul trouble within the first eight minutes.

Shooter McGavin

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2023, 08:43:34 AM »
I can remember when just about any contact with a player was called a foul.


Not to the degree you are saying but do you think it is called a lot tighter during the NCAA tournament and pre conference games like Hurley said in his presser?  Hurley made mention that he won’t be nearly as concerned in March about getting calls or the physical play.  Basically said many of his younger guys weren’t strong enough and didn’t have freedom of movement from being held and grabbed in conference games.

Do you think this is a correct theory?  Or does it just seem that way when another teams guards are simply more aggressive and stronger.

wadesworld

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2023, 09:17:57 AM »
This is an area where the European/International rules (or enforcement thereof) is much better than NCAA / NBA.  There still exists a charge rule, but the defender has to be there long enough to get a parking ticket in order to get the call. 

This whole thing with defenders rushing into/under the driving/leaping player will unfortunately end with a severe injury unless there is a rule change first.   The safety issue is far more important than the difficulty for the average college ref to get it right.

This is exactly it.  There should be an "offensive foul" for something like what the refs thought Kolek did (charge into a guy in good defensive position with shoulder lowered, push off with off hand, neither of which Kolek did).  They need to get rid of the charge where a guy is going airborn and the only "defense" being played is someone who didn't play good enough defense to prevent the offensive player from getting to the rim and can't contest the shot just jumps under him and falls over hoping for the whistle to go his way.  It's garbage basketball and refs don't know how to call it.  Defenders should need to be making a play on the ball.

The Kolek call was just the wrong call.
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tower912

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2023, 12:31:16 PM »
Gold clearly charged.  I thought Kolek's was a coin flip.  The one I want to see called more is the hook.
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ATL MU Warrior

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2023, 12:35:48 PM »
Gold clearly charged.  I thought Kolek's was a coin flip.  The one I want to see called more is the hook.
How about a good, old-fashioned 3 seconds call?

tower912

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2023, 12:37:03 PM »
Yes.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

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The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2023, 01:04:29 PM »
Gold clearly charged.  I thought Kolek's was a coin flip.  The one I want to see called more is the hook.

Gold's was obvious. I thought Kolek's was a nice flop. I also thought MU benefitted from the call on Joplin when he had already lost control of the ball and was heading out of bounds.

It happens.
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tower912

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2023, 01:11:14 PM »
Exactly.   Expect the refs to miss some.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

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cheebs09

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2023, 01:12:50 PM »
My only complaint about the refs was Hurley didn’t get T’d up. When I saw Driscoll, I thought it was going to be a sure thing.

No instance that he should have gotten one, but for me Danny Hurley didn’t live up to the hype.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Get Rid of the Charge
« Reply #49 on: January 12, 2023, 01:30:08 PM »
My only complaint about the refs was Hurley didn’t get T’d up. When I saw Driscoll, I thought it was going to be a sure thing.

No instance that he should have gotten one, but for me Danny Hurley didn’t live up to the hype.

I too was disappointed. I bet the over on a Widowmaker.