NCAA Hoops Thread '21-22

[Billy Hoyle]

No way he stays at UNC after this year right?

he will have to sit if he leaves.

What happens to his six figures in NIL deals if he leaves though? Right now that's more than he'll make in the Bosnian professional league.

[Galway Eagle]

he will have to sit if he leaves.

What happens to his six figures in NIL deals if he leaves though? Right now that's more than he'll make in the Bosnian professional league.

He's making 6 figures now? How is that sustainable for businesses? I mean seriously, there's got to be a negligible return on that marketing investment if any. I mean if it's was a publicly traded company couldn't that almost be considered mismanagement of funds?

[brewcity77]

At somepoint Texas gonna have to prove they deserve a ranking

After yesterday, they finally have a Quadrant 1 win...

...on the road at K-State, which is only Q1 because they won at Texas

[JWags85]

He's making 6 figures now? How is that sustainable for businesses? I mean seriously, there's got to be a negligible return on that marketing investment if any. I mean if it's was a publicly traded company couldn't that almost be considered mismanagement of funds?

I don't mean this at all condescendingly, but you clearly don't have an experience in advertising or media buying.  If you think failed marketing or sponsorship efforts are "mismanagement of funds" I don't know what to tell you otherwise.  I worked at a publicly traded company that did a $5MM event sponsorship/PR campaign/marketing effort that had about 25% of the expected attendance, saw no noticeable brand impact, and didn't lead to any further steps on the planned marketing path for that product.  The general reaction was "welp, lesson learned, don't do that in the future" and one director probably got passed over for a promotion that cycle.

I assure you public companies spend FARRRR more, comparatively and scaled, on advertising/marketing ventures that have spurious returns.  There are plenty of businesses who do advertising that is strictly "brand building" aka there is no direct path to purchase from the vast majority of people they advertise to, companies like Boeing, Dow, etc...

If a top athlete at a local university gives the brand association with that team or puts them in the eyeballs of that player's followers, that works.  Its not always 1 for 1. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

Maybe I am missing something, but his stats show that he is by and large the same player at UNC than he was a MU.  Just playing less.

The weirdest thing is that he is shooting worse from 2, and better from 3.  EFG is down overall.  But everything else is pretty much similar when the difference in minutes is accounted for.

Usage. Including playing a lot less. Wojo seemed to run a lot of plays to position them for succcess based on their abilities. Obviously, all three moved on to higher levels teams, but look at Garcia, he dominated the team he transferred to this year.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Usage. Including playing a lot less. Wojo seemed to run a lot of plays to position them for succcess based on their abilities. Obviously, all three moved on to higher levels teams, but look at Garcia, he dominated the team he transferred to this year.

His usage is actually UP this year.  23.6% v. 22.0%.  It is down since conference season though, which means by the end of this year it will likely be lower.

But even his usage last year wasn't obscene.  The difference in usage last year between first (Carton at 24.7) and fourth (McEwen at 20.8) wasn't significantly different.

[Galway Eagle]

I don't mean this at all condescendingly, but you clearly don't have an experience in advertising or media buying.  If you think failed marketing or sponsorship efforts are "mismanagement of funds" I don't know what to tell you otherwise.  I worked at a publicly traded company that did a $5MM event sponsorship/PR campaign/marketing effort that had about 25% of the expected attendance, saw no noticeable brand impact, and didn't lead to any further steps on the planned marketing path for that product.  The general reaction was "welp, lesson learned, don't do that in the future" and one director probably got passed over for a promotion that cycle.

I assure you public companies spend FARRRR more, comparatively and scaled, on advertising/marketing ventures that have spurious returns.  There are plenty of businesses who do advertising that is strictly "brand building" aka there is no direct path to purchase from the vast majority of people they advertise to, companies like Boeing, Dow, etc...

If a top athlete at a local university gives the brand association with that team or puts them in the eyeballs of that player's followers, that works.  Its not always 1 for 1.

This is awkward but since grad school I've done Marketing Analytics for CDW and now Omnicom. At CDW we actually could trace a return to sponsorship of the PGA tour because the director required some type of benchmarking to approve continuing the sponsorship. I should probably quit while I'm ahead though since I don't have media buying experience 

I assumed that it'd be mismanagement because I'm assuming (my bad) that these are existing UNC stakeholders throwing capitol at bench players to keep them happy. Every campaign should have established benchmarks that they need to meet for whatever KPIs that the strategy team came up with during the planning phase.

[Dr. Blackheart]

His usage is actually UP this year.  23.6% v. 22.0%.  It is down since conference season though, which means by the end of this year it will likely be lower.

But even his usage last year wasn't obscene.  The difference in usage last year between first (Carton at 24.7) and fourth (McEwen at 20.8) wasn't significantly different.

Usage has many definitions. You are using one from Pomeroy. I am also using minutes (way down) and how he/they are being used and featured within an offense.

Garcia, Joey and Henry were outside-in players under Wojo, and now they are more inside-out.  They are now primarily in the paint players.

[Uncle Rico]

https://twitter.com/xavier_sanchez4/status/1483794207538089988?s=21

[Galway Eagle]

https://twitter.com/xavier_sanchez4/status/1483794207538089988?s=21

Definitely star that for next badger hate week!

[JWags85]

This is awkward but since grad school I've done Marketing Analytics for CDW and now Omnicom. At CDW we actually could trace a return to sponsorship of the PGA tour because the director required some type of benchmarking to approve continuing the sponsorship. I should probably quit while I'm ahead though since I don't have media buying experience 

I assumed that it'd be mismanagement because I'm assuming (my bad) that these are existing UNC stakeholders throwing capitol at bench players to keep them happy. Every campaign should have established benchmarks that they need to meet for whatever KPIs that the strategy team came up with during the planning phase.

Coming from both the media agency side and then the company side, the returns on brand building sponsorships and spend is hazy at best.  It can be done, and plenty of companies do it, but I remember seeing directly how it could slide and vary.  I mean, Boeing used to use "brand favorability" metrics and ratings to comp and justify their media buys and ad spending.  Not the most precise tools, especially when its not a digital property.

Hell, major professional sports in general is almost always negative return.  I worked for 3 years on MillerCoors media business.  NFL, NBA, college sports spending, that wasn't incredibly targeted or niche (aka some of the AA focused NBA work, smaller digital properties or buckets for the NFL, etc...) was almost always a money pit from a direct return on spend.  However, it was to get your name and brands out there and affiliated with sports and the fervor around it, and it paid back in other ways.

YMMV but thats my experiences.  As for bias cause UNC stakeholders like a player or whatnot, I know for a FACT that multiple Gatorade sponsored athletes in the early 2010s were chosen over others due to their current team or alma maters being favored or affiliated by higher ups in branding at the company t the time.  So while it might seem more likely for a car dealership to throw some cash at a random UNC player cause the owner is a fan, its not unheard of for it to happen at the mega level too.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

https://twitter.com/xavier_sanchez4/status/1483794207538089988?s=21

As much as I wanna talk sh!t, there’s there’s no doubt in my mind that a Marquette fan has done something similar and just hasn’t been caught on camera.

[Billy Hoyle]

I don't mean this at all condescendingly, but you clearly don't have an experience in advertising or media buying.  If you think failed marketing or sponsorship efforts are "mismanagement of funds" I don't know what to tell you otherwise.  I worked at a publicly traded company that did a $5MM event sponsorship/PR campaign/marketing effort that had about 25% of the expected attendance, saw no noticeable brand impact, and didn't lead to any further steps on the planned marketing path for that product.  The general reaction was "welp, lesson learned, don't do that in the future" and one director probably got passed over for a promotion that cycle.

I assure you public companies spend FARRRR more, comparatively and scaled, on advertising/marketing ventures that have spurious returns.  There are plenty of businesses who do advertising that is strictly "brand building" aka there is no direct path to purchase from the vast majority of people they advertise to, companies like Boeing, Dow, etc...

If a top athlete at a local university gives the brand association with that team or puts them in the eyeballs of that player's followers, that works.  Its not always 1 for 1.

I don't know if you saw the article last week about Texas A&M boosters allegedly shelling out upwards of $30million for this year's recruiting class (likely a violation of Texas state law and the NCAA is investigating, not that Jimbo cares). The money Dawson is getting is likely coming from booster owned companies. They would have spent it on UNC in one way or the other.

Here's the A&M article about how it's being done:  https://brobible.com/sports/article/texas-am-recruiting-class-nil-money/ (though the article in incorrect in saying it's legal. NIL money cannot be contingent on a recruit attending an institution or directly, or indirectly, facilitated by the institution).

[Uncle Rico]

I don't know if you saw the article last week about Texas A&M boosters allegedly shelling out upwards of $30million for this year's recruiting class (likely a violation of Texas state law and the NCAA is investigating, not that Jimbo cares). The money Dawson is getting is likely coming from booster owned companies. They would have spent it on UNC in one way or the other.

Here's the A&M article about how it's being done:  https://brobible.com/sports/article/texas-am-recruiting-class-nil-money/ (though the article in incorrect in saying it's legal. NIL money cannot be contingent on a recruit attending an institution or directly, or indirectly, facilitated by the institution).

Texas A&M is in so much trouble

[Billy Hoyle]

Texas A&M is in so much trouble

The SEC: If you're not cheating you're not trying.

[JWags85]

As much as I wanna talk sh!t, there’s there’s no doubt in my mind that a Marquette fan has done something similar and just hasn’t been caught on camera.

Marquette also doesn't have the reputation of a lilywhite basketball team, thinking they do stuff "the right/classy way", and way to disregard almost every, primarily black, recruit that spurns their basketball team as likely academically deficient.

[4everwarriors]

Is comparing Woj vs Boom Shaka Lakka even a thang. I mean, one dude is a Timex, the other is a Rolex, aina?

[VanderBlueFanClub]

Still can't believe that LSU lost to Alabama, I find this especially crazy due to fact that LSU has one of if not the best defenses in college basketball this year. I always thought the Bama was too offensive sided guard heavy in a conference that requires hard-nosed defense and bigs.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Still can't believe that LSU lost to Alabama, I find this especially crazy due to fact that LSU has one of if not the best defenses in college basketball this year. I always thought the Bama was too offensive sided guard heavy in a conference that requires hard-nosed defense and bigs.

It does???

[PGsHeroes32]

Still can't believe that LSU lost to Alabama, I find this especially crazy due to fact that LSU has one of if not the best defenses in college basketball this year. I always thought the Bama was too offensive sided guard heavy in a conference that requires hard-nosed defense and bigs.

Can't believe it?

LSU was down 2 key players and were dogs in the game.

[We R Final Four]

Is comparing Woj vs Boom Shaka Lakka even a thang. I mean, one dude is a Timex, the other is a Rolex, aina?

That’s twice today.

[PGsHeroes32]

Purdue with a nice choke

[Skatastrophy]

It's Indiana, it's Indiana

[Pakuni]

Purdue with a nice choke

For a really good team, Purdue takes a lot of bad shots.

[tower912]

Including a last second 3, since IU didn't foul up 3.