NCAA Hoops Thread '21-22

[MuggsyB]

Rick Pitino. 

Well clearly Oats and Musselman are getting athletes.  We need to find a way to get more speed, quickness, strength, etc, and a few knock down shooters.

[MuggsyB]

Bama is gagging this game away

[MuggsyB]

Pretty good day for Tuscaloosa.

[wadesworld]

Gonzaga should not be a one seed. But they'll roll through the conference season and rack up wins so they will be. They're nowhere close to what they were last year.

I also wouldn't want my team touching Chet Holmgren if I had a top 3 pick. People try to compare him to Kevin Durant. Durant was so much more polished. He could've averaged 15 a game in the NBA as a high school senior. Chet needs about 3 years of weight room work.

[wadesworld]

Pretty good day for Tuscaloosa.

99% of their population and student body don't even know their basketball team played today.

[Galway Eagle]

Gonzaga should not be a one seed. But they'll roll through the conference season and rack up wins so they will be. They're nowhere close to what they were last year.

I also wouldn't want my team touching Chet Holmgren if I had a top 3 pick. People try to compare him to Kevin Durant. Durant was so much more polished. He could've averaged 15 a game in the NBA as a high school senior. Chet needs about 3 years of weight room work.

Chet looks like he's a hard gust of wind away from breaking something.

[MuggsyB]

I haven't seen all of the NBA lottery prospects but if some are comparing Holmgren to Durant they have severe problems.  The three best college players I have watched are Banchero, Ivey, and Keegan Murray.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Pretty good day for Tuscaloosa.

Not a good day also to be a Bulldog.

[JWags85]

I haven't seen all of the NBA lottery prospects but if some are comparing Holmgren to Durant they have severe problems.  The three best college players I have watched are Banchero, Ivey, and Keegan Murray.

Banchero is so complete.  He's a ready made product.

I think the difference between Durant and Holmgren is Durant always looked fluid and proportional.  Holmgren's body just looks kind of awkward and a bit disproportioned.  He's still super young and may grow into it, but Durant never gave that vibe, even at Texas.

[MuggsyB]

Banchero is so complete.  He's a ready made product.

I think the difference between Durant and Holmgren is Durant always looked fluid and proportional.  Holmgren's body just looks kind of awkward and a bit disproportioned.  He's still super young and may grow into it, but Durant never gave that vibe, even at Texas.

JWags I'm often wrong about projecting college players, but I will say that I watched Durant for about 10 mins at Texas and said he would be an immediate all-star and superstar.  You just don't see guys that large with his array of talents.  He was s complete offensive player with ridiculous handles, range, quickness, and pure shooting ability. His scoring has been effortless probably since he was in jr. high.  Holmgren may eventually turn out to be a great NBA player but I think he's at least 2 yrs away.

[MuggsyB]

Illinois up 13 on Iowa in Iowa City.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Texas Southern became the first Southwestern Athletic Conference team to beat a ranked SEC program (Florida) in the Associated Press poll era dating to 1936,

[Billy Hoyle]

0-7 Texas Southern goes into Gainsville and beats #20 Florida by 15.  College basketball...

Purdue is ranked #1 for the first time in program history.  Good for the Boilers! West Lafayette is easily one of the worst college locations I've ever been to. That Painter (and Keady) can recruit such high level talent there is amazing.

[MuggsyB]

Texas Southern became the first Southwestern Athletic Conference team to beat a ranked SEC program (Florida) in the Associated Press poll era dating to 1936,

Wow!  Sweet!!

[brewcity77]

Well clearly Oats and Musselman are getting athletes.  We need to find a way to get more speed, quickness, strength, etc, and a few knock down shooters.

Offensively, what we're doing largely mirrors Alabama. High tempo, shots at the rim or the arc, the main difference is our results are ahead of where Oats was at this point of year one.

[rocky_warrior]

the main difference is our results are ahead of where Oats was at this point of year one.

Please show your math.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Please show your math.

At the end of December 6, 2020 (Oats first year in Alabama), the Crimson Tide was 4-4 with wins against #191 FAU (Home), #81 Furman (Home), #279 Southern Miss (Neutral), and #100 Stephen F Austin (Home) and losses against #141 Penn (Home), #65 Rhode Island (Away), #84 North Carolina (Neutral), and #89 Iowa State (Neutral). Bama was also ranked somewhere between 82nd and 85th after being ranked preseason as 70th (all ranks KenPom).

Bama also played at a breakneck tempo (#4 in adjusted tempo) though their defensive style was much different than Shaka's (in a bad way). Their offense was also better than Shaka's but Brew is correct that they were similarly focused on that side of the ball.

This of course doesn't mean that Shaka is going to surpass Oats at Bama but does reinforce that this is a process. And the vast majority of coaches don't get it done in year 1.

[Lennys Tap]

0-7 Texas Southern goes into Gainsville and beats #20 Florida by 15.  College basketball...

Purdue is ranked #1 for the first time in program history.  Good for the Boilers! West Lafayette is easily one of the worst college locations I've ever been to. That Painter (and Keady) can recruit such high level talent there is amazing.

Stayed in Cary Men's Hall for 6 days in late August one summer (1965) during the Colt League regionals. Dorm was awful, so was the campus - though I assume things are much better now.

[brewcity77]

Please show your math.

TAMU basically covered it. I would add that Oats was 4-5 through 9 games at Alabama and that how I think Smith wants to teach offense is similar in that it's more teaching how to play and the kind of shots to work for rather than a bunch of set plays.

Because of that, and because this type of defense is as much about teaching constant effort and activity, I think it makes getting results with such a young group really difficult. This isn't a system design where you'll just throw the most talented guy out there and say "get it done" because it's not common for guys to pick up those disciplines in high school.

[Dr. Blackheart]

TAMU basically covered it. I would add that Oats was 4-5 through 9 games at Alabama and that how I think Smith wants to teach offense is similar in that it's more teaching how to play and the kind of shots to work for rather than a bunch of set plays.

Because of that, and because this type of defense is as much about teaching constant effort and activity, I think it makes getting results with such a young group really difficult. This isn't a system design where you'll just throw the most talented guy out there and say "get it done" because it's not common for guys to pick up those disciplines in high school.

Looking forward to our Quinerly on the graduate transfer market as I don't see that talent sitting out on our bench currently for Year 2 or from signed recruits. Do agree about the need for a longer term view, though, and that .500 is a reasonable upward expectation for this team as I have said in the past.

That said, this offense isn't clicking at all yet and is worthy of our Scoop microscopes. A few good halves in Charleston to give us a glimpse of hope. No half court game in evidence which will be needed in the round robin, especially with this current tempo and shoot first mentality. There is no denying that. Haslam has MU's offense at #152 on this year's possession numbers. Ugh. Much more sawtoothed than I expected this early, with our defense winning us a few games.

December will be as brutal as it started and is Pomeroy expected. I am hoping we steal a few of these games. However, the real judge for next season is the progression of this offense in January and February, in particular the cohesiveness. It may be more of a qualitative judgment, but it will be ugly at times as we get there as it was for Oats. I see Shaka trying to get us there sooner rather than later with the freshmen minutes, so that's a plus so far.

It will be a slow burn year, though. Some eye test Scoopers are very optimistic: Elite 8, magical shooting touches to be found, top three in conference. I appreciate the fandom, but the Bama path is much more likely as is our tortured artist critiques of this offense. Great comp for us to track with going forward.

https://haslametrics.com/ratings2.php?yr=&tid=561

[rocky_warrior]

TAMU basically covered it. I would add that Oats was 4-5 through 9 games at Alabama and that how I think Smith wants to teach offense is similar in that it's more teaching how to play and the kind of shots to work for rather than a bunch of set plays.

I agree it's a good comp, but surprised both you and TAMU are going with Ws and Ls rather than tempo free stats at this point.  MU eking out wins against SIUe and UNH weren't much better stat-wise than losses.  The offensive and Defensive #s at this point in the year are not as good as they were for Bama back in '20, compared to the 350ish of our peers.

[Billy Hoyle]

Stayed in Cary Men's Hall for 6 days in late August one summer (1965) during the Colt League regionals. Dorm was awful, so was the campus - though I assume things are much better now.

I remember the campus being nice but good God, West Lafayette was awful. We thought we were lost in the middle of soybean fields and then we saw Ross-Ade. Some buddies and I asked a student where we could grab a beer before the football game and she said "there's a Burger King nearby." At least Columbia, MO had a good bar scene.

[JWags85]

I remember the campus being nice but good God, West Lafayette was awful. We thought we were lost in the middle of soybean fields and then we saw Ross-Ade. Some buddies and I asked a student where we could grab a beer before the football game and she said "there's a Burger King nearby." At least Columbia, MO had a good bar scene.

Yea it still stinks.  I knew a bunch of Purdue alums in my early 20s and went down for OSU-Purdue one year and was shocked how unappealing it was.  The campus is alright, its not heinous, but its nothing remotely impressive or memorable.  And West Lafayette is brutal.  Which is funny cause Lafayette/West Lafayette in that Wabash River valley are the lone non-bleak spot between Indianapolis and Chicago.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I agree it's a good comp, but surprised both you and TAMU are going with Ws and Ls rather than tempo free stats at this point.  MU eking out wins against SIUe and UNH weren't much better stat-wise than losses.  The offensive and Defensive #s at this point in the year are not as good as they were for Bama back in '20, compared to the 350ish of our peers.

I didn't go with tempo-free stats. I mentioned that our KenPom ranking is currently higher than what Bama's was at the same time despite Bama being ranked higher pre-season than we were. And our defensive numbers are better than Bama's was, their offensive numbers were better.

[rocky_warrior]

I mentioned that our KenPom ranking is currently higher than what Bama's was at the same time despite Bama being ranked higher pre-season than we were. And our defensive numbers are better than Bama's was, their offensive numbers were better.

Fair enough, and generally agreed, except Torvic had '20 Bama at 69 after 9, and has MU as 98 after 9, so flipped.