2021-22 Big East Conference Results

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

One of the metrics in NET is win loss percentage .

Schedule a couple of easy wins and your good to go. You Get the win percentage up and the efficiency up. All that gets added into the total .

.... so you only look at one factor and ignore the others?

[Herman Cain]

.... so you only look at one factor and ignore the others?

Very simple DII don't count in formula

Add two big wins and the gross Total goes up.

That is why non conference matters . Build up the NET then, because the in conference it is hard to gain unless you go on a massive winning streak like MU did .

[Uncle Rico]

Very simple DII don't count in formula

Add two big wins and the gross Total goes up.

That is why non conference matters . Build up the NET then, because the in conference it is hard to gain unless you go on a massive winning streak like MU did .

They didn't cover in 3 of 4 cupcake games, what makes you believe they'd have won those cupcake games?  Butler sucked through mid-January

[brewcity77]

One of the metrics in NET is win loss percentage .

Schedule a couple of easy wins and your good to go. You Get the win percentage up and the efficiency up. All that gets added into the total .

Efficiency margins matter above all else. Everything else you are saying is worthless nonsense. Let's use your own post to prove this:

Big East NET rankings as of games of December 11,2021
New Old
5   5   Villanova   
14   14   UConn   
15   18   Xavier   
22   23   Seton Hall   
39   36   Providence   
51   50   DePaul
58   82   Creighton   
76   60   Marquette   
95   96   St. John's
137   123   Butler   
174   205   Georgetown

So on December 10th, Butler was 123 in the NET, and because of the results of December 11th, Butler fell 14 spots to 137. That's a pretty sharp drop, so they must've taken a loss, right? Wrong. They played and won.

Butler beat Eastern Illinois 66-54.

So they get a double-digit win over a cupcake and...drop 14 spots? But how could that be if their NET improves due to improving their W/L record? Because in the grand scheme, W/L record is meaningless. Butler was supposed to win by 23 and because they failed to cover that number, they dropped. Margins are the same reason Alabama (23) and Marquette (29) have 16-9 records yet are ahead of Providence (31) at 21-3 in the NET. It's why Oklahoma State is 51st in the NET with a 12-13 record while the 34 teams behind them are all .500 or better (Penn State, 86th and 10-12 is the next team with a losing record). Because W/L record is virtually meaningless.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Very simple DII don't count in formula

Add two big wins and the gross Total goes up.

That is why non conference matters . Build up the NET then, because the in conference it is hard to gain unless you go on a massive winning streak like MU did .

Yes D2 doesn't count in NET's formula...good or bad. You can't replace the two D2 games with two D1 games and assume that Butler would have gotten "two big wins". They could have also gotten two "not big wins" or two "losses" or any combination of the three.

There are 358 teams in D1. Butler has played both #355 in NET and #358, literally two of the four worst NET teams in D1. Two teams with a combined record of 3-43 this season. Butler beat #355 by only 12 and #358, the worst team in D1, by only 9. Both of these games hurt their NET and by extension hurt the rest of the conference.

In addition, one of those two D2 games, they only won by 11. So if it had counted, it would have hurt their NET even more.

So yes, if Butler had played two D1 teams instead of two D2s and had "big wins", you are correct that would have helped their NET. But given that Butler struggled against most of their cupcakes, it's also possible that they wouldn't have had "big wins" and would have ended up doing even more damage to the rest of the Big East, so it's also possible that the Big East is fortunate that Butler scheduled D2 opponents instead of D1 opponents.

[rocky_warrior]

Just a PSA that tonight's MU game is on FS2 - I know that's not a problem for most here, but we inevitably get last minute bellyaching every time a FS2 or CBSSN game comes up.

[fjm]

Just a PSA that tonight's MU game is on FS2 - I know that's not a problem for most here, but we inevitably get last minute bellyaching every time a FS2 or CBSSN game comes up.

Come on man! CBSSN! Ugh

[We R Final Four]

Just a PSA that tonight's MU game is on FS2 - I know that's not a problem for most here, but we inevitably get last minute bellyaching every time a FS2 or CBSSN game comes up.

So true—-cant wait for the 7:05 post asking  where to find the game.....followed shortly by "MU should play all of their games on FS1."

[Herman Cain]

Over on CBSSN The Johnnies are up 45-42 at the half at X

[Uncle Rico]

The X flat out stinks.  Nice win for the Johnnies NIT bid

[wildbillsb]

Just a PSA that tonight's MU game is on FS2 - I know that's not a problem for most here, but we inevitably get last minute bellyaching every time a FS2 or CBSSN game comes up.

Can't get FS1 out here in San Diego.  Anybody have a suggestion?  Thanks.
wildbill

[1SE]

Livestream fox.com if you have a TV provider.

Otherwise reddit CBB streams

[Herman Cain]

Excellent win for The Johnnies over X.

Chris Mack is available to come back........

[Uncle Rico]

Excellent win for The Johnnies over X.

Chris Mack is available to come back........

They'd take Sean Miller or Thad Matta first

[Billy Hoyle]

The X flat out stinks.  Nice win for the Johnnies NIT bid

I didn't watch because KenPom said X would win. What happened in Cincy tonight?

[Uncle Rico]

I didn't watch because KenPom said X would win. What happened in Cincy tonight?

That's pretty stupid of you, but hardly surprising.  Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of predictive models know how they work.

I'm sorry KenPom hurt you or pops.  Good win for the Johnnies.  Very helpful in getting them to the NIT

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

Helps keep MU top 5.

[brewcity77]

That's pretty stupid of you, but hardly surprising.  Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of predictive models know how they work.

I'm sorry KenPom hurt you or pops.  Good win for the Johnnies.  Very helpful in getting them to the NIT

Math is hard.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Math is hard.

But stats are. Pomeroy great looking backwards. Not so good looking forward.

[brewcity77]

But stats are. Pomeroy great looking backwards. Not so good looking forward.

It's the closest thing to Vegas in terms of accuracy. No system is perfect, but it's the best of the predictive metrics.

[Dr. Blackheart]

It's the closest thing to Vegas in terms of accuracy. No system is perfect, but it's the best of the predictive metrics.

He changed his methodology a few years back to be more explainable. He is the best looking backwards as a result, not predictive. He was better before when he was multiplicative versus additive.

Case in point, the shyt he took for rating the Badgers too high under Bo...yet they finished in the F2 twice which he predicted and was where they finished.

When you build models you have two choices: Build them backwards looking or forward looking. Pomeroy is now great explaining the past as was his choice.

[Uncle Rico]

He changed his methodology a few years back to be more explainable. He is the best looking backwards as a result, not predictive. He was better before when he was multiplicative versus additive.

Case in point, the shyt he took for rating the Badgers too high under Bo...yet they finished in the F2 twice which he predicted and was where they finished.

When you build models you have two choices: Build them backwards looking or forward looking. Pomeroy is now great explaining the past as was his choice.

Either way, no one has ever said it's infallible when it comes to the results of games yet to be played.  It's one tool to use in discussing teams.  Dismissing it is silly, especially when we consider how many coaches in college basketball use it

[Herman Cain]

Solid win for U Conn over The Hall. U Conn  did an excellent job rebounding.

[MU82]

Either way, no one has ever said it's infallible when it comes to the results of games yet to be played.  It's one tool to use in discussing teams.  Dismissing it is silly, especially when we consider how many coaches in college basketball use it

I know that I've been a little snarky about kenpom. It's not that I don't "like" it or "trust" it, it's that I feel sometimes it's used as a crutch a little too much. We've got a game in 24 hours, and all some folks (not you Unk) talk about is what kenpom says, as if we might as well not even bother playing. And then there's the whole thing of the first two months of kenpom ratings being fairly close to worthless because they're based on the previous season, even though teams increasingly have 50% roster turnover or more.

But I know there's nothing perfect out there, and an awful lot of knowledgeable Scoopers like you, brew, TAMU, etc, really think highly of kenpom, so I'll try to "respect the kenpom process" going forward.

[Uncle Rico]

I know that I've been a little snarky about kenpom. It's not that I don't "like" it or "trust" it, it's that I feel sometimes it's used as a crutch a little too much. We've got a game in 24 hours, and all some folks (not you Unk) talk about is what kenpom says, as if we might as well not even bother playing. And then there's the whole thing of the first two months of kenpom ratings being fairly close to worthless because they're based on the previous season, even though teams increasingly have 50% roster turnover or more.

But I know there's nothing perfect out there, and an awful lot of knowledgeable Scoopers like you, brew, TAMU, etc, really think highly of kenpom, so I'll try to "respect the kenpom process" going forward.

I guess I see those doomsayers differently in that there is a certain level of preparation for a tough challenge.  For me, the wins over Villanova are that much sweeter.

I don't take KenPom as gospel, nor do Brew or TAMU.  It's one tool in the belt to use.

The human element is real in sports.  There are a variety of reasons a team may under perform or over perform on a given day.  We all realize that and that's why we watch.