Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking

[Billy Hoyle]

Number who deposited. You don't know for sure until the first day of classes but that number won't change significantly.

The other issue is we don't know what those students are paying. Did they increase scholarship $$$ to drive a larger class? Who knows...

Any idea what the acceptance rate was? I don't take the average GPA stat seriously with grade inflation out of control the last few years. And certainly the ACT/SAT metic isn't the same now that it's test optional to apply.

[Macallan 18]

The other issue is we don't know what those students are paying. Did they increase scholarship $$$ to drive a larger class? Who knows...

At the last University Academic Senate meeting, administration stated they had to provide more merit aid (financial incentives) to get that large of a class.

With the new student success center opening soon, perhaps more of the students are retained and the merit aid paid out at the front end is made up on the back end by students staying all four years?

[The Sultan]

At the last University Academic Senate meeting, administration stated they had to provide more merit aid (financial incentives) to get that large of a class.

With the new student success center opening soon, perhaps more of the students are retained and the merit aid paid out at the front end is made up on the back end by students staying all four years?

Could very well be.  To use purely economic terms, investment into student retention initiatives is much more "profitable" than student recruitment. If you can drive up your retention up 3% on a class of 2,000, assuming a net tuition of about $17,000, that's an additional $1 million per year in tuition with just that class.  Do that consistently that's $4 million annually not including housing and auxiliaries. 

[Boston Warrior]

1943 undergraduates received their degree today from Marquette. The "biggest freshman class in years" was published at 2027 students for this years fall classes. Not all 2027 will make graduation in 4 years. Still have a lot of work to do on enrollment.

[DFW HOYA]

Any idea what the acceptance rate was? I don't take the average GPA stat seriously with grade inflation out of control the last few years. And certainly the ACT/SAT metic isn't the same now that it's test optional to apply.

I think 10 of the 11 Big East schools are now test optional.

[Billy Hoyle]

I think 10 of the 11 Big East schools are now test optional.

I wonder how long this fad will last. MIT has already reversed course, saying the SAT/ACT was a better predictor of academic success and provides greater access to a school like MIT for students at "lesser" high schools.

[GOO]

And other schools, including the U of Chicago, conclude that it is not a good predictor of college success and grades are a better predictor regardless of the high school. Obviously, it's more complicated than that, but testing  has likely favored better off kids with advanced prep.

But, I see the trend holding and continuing except for some elite schools. The movement away from standardized testing already started pre-Covid .  As fewer kids take tests because they don't need to, there's a disincentive for schools to go back and require it. Requiring it will be a barrier to many applicants.

[The Sultan]

I wonder how long this fad will last. MIT has already reversed course, saying the SAT/ACT was a better predictor of academic success and provides greater access to a school like MIT for students at "lesser" high schools.

They also emphasized the math portion, so I am wondering if that had a bearing considering their STEM focus.

But, I see the trend holding and continuing except for some elite schools. The movement away from standardized testing already started pre-Covid .  As fewer kids take tests because they don't need to, there's a disincentive for schools to go back and require it. Requiring it will be a barrier to many applicants.

Yep.

[Pakuni]

I wonder how long this fad will last. MIT has already reversed course, saying the SAT/ACT was a better predictor of academic success and provides greater access to a school like MIT for students at "lesser" high schools.

MIT is an outlier. More schools are dropping the requirement than reinstating it, including the entire Ivy League.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/04/20/mit-outlier-reinstating-satact-admissions/

And as Clarissa suggests, even MIT says they're in a unique situation because of their focus on math.

As MIT's own announcement statement made clear, its policy is not designed to be generalized, even to other highly selective schools. Rather, the purported utility of SAT math scores at MIT is specific to the unique curriculum of that institution — the introductory physics course that all first-year students must take assumes that everyone has completed introductory calculus.

[Lennys Tap]

They also emphasized the math portion, so I am wondering if that had a bearing considering their STEM focus.

So the more rigorous the discipline the more beneficial the standardized test.

[The Sultan]

So the more rigorous the discipline the more beneficial the standardized test.

Or at least the more objective in nature.

[MU82]

I wonder how long this fad will last.

Decades, if not forever.

[Pakuni]

Decades, if not forever.

It will soon vanish like other noted fads such as talkies and rock n roll.

[tower912]

It will soon vanish like other noted fads such as talkies and rock n roll.

And the internet.

[DFW HOYA]

MIT is an outlier. More schools are dropping the requirement than reinstating it, including the entire Ivy League.

MIT and Georgetown are the national outliers. Georgetown not only requires SAT's (and required three Subject Tests until the College Board discontinued them) but does not allow Score Choice (where a students can select which scores to send to a school when they've taken it more than once). MIT accepts Score Choice.

In addition, both schools do not accept the Common Application.

In both cases these schools are not hurting for applicants and are comfortable doing things their own way.  That's a level of comfort very few admissions directors have these days when their trustees are pushing for more and more applicants every year, and one way to do that is eliminating lower SAT's scores as a barrier to entry. In that sense. Marquette is under even more pressure to improve quantity and quality of applications.

[Pakuni]

What's the opposition here to the elimination of standardized test scores, especially from people who almost certainly never again will apply for college?

[The Sultan]

What's the opposition here to the elimination of standardized test scores, especially from people who almost certainly never again will apply for college?

"It's dumbing down the University and negatively impacting the value of my degree." - Joe Alum '63

[Lennys Tap]

What's the opposition here to the elimination of standardized test scores, especially from people who almost certainly never again will apply for college?

Well, on one hand I hear about young people without college diplomas or with degrees that don't help them land decent jobs saddled with massive debt that needs to be paid off by others. And on the other hand I hear about colleges that no longer require prospective students to prove an aptitude to handle real college level courses.

Is there a connection? Are we setting up students to fail? I'm asking an honest question and don't give a sh!t about the "value" of my college degree. Whatever it was worth has long since been spent.

[The Sultan]

And on the other hand I hear about colleges that no longer require prospective students to prove an aptitude to handle real college level courses.

You think standardized tests "prove an aptitude to handle real college level courses?" 

[Lennys Tap]

You think standardized tests "prove an aptitude to handle real college level courses?"

Aptitude? Yes. Maturity and willingness to put forth the effort required? No.

But IMO it's one important component.

[Pakuni]

Well, on one hand I hear about young people without college diplomas or with degrees that don't help them land decent jobs saddled with massive debt that needs to be paid off by others. And on the other hand I hear about colleges that no longer require prospective students to prove an aptitude to handle real college level courses.

Is there a connection? Are we setting up students to fail? I'm asking an honest question and don't give a sh!t about the "value" of my college degree. Whatever it was worth has long since been spent.

Given that the large-scale move away from standardized tests began only in the past 2-3 admissions cycles, that would mean most students affected by it are still in college. So I would say there is zero connection between that and young people leaving college with massive debt and degrees that don't pay the bills.
There's definitely a legitimate discussion to be had regarding the value of a college degree, but that's a separate discussion from the value of a standardized test.
From the research out there, there seems to be only a weak link between standardized test scores and college success, but a strong link between high school GPA and college success.

[🏀]

Well, on one hand I hear about young people without college diplomas or with degrees that don't help them land decent jobs saddled with massive debt that needs to be paid off by others. And on the other hand I hear about colleges that no longer require prospective students to prove an aptitude to handle real college level courses.

Is there a connection? Are we setting up students to fail? I'm asking an honest question and don't give a sh!t about the "value" of my college degree. Whatever it was worth has long since been spent.

Streeeeeeeetch.

[The Sultan]

Aptitude? Yes. Maturity and willingness to put forth the effort required? No.

But IMO it's one important component.

Standardized tests don't "prove" anything of the sort. A positive correlation?  Perhaps. But a lot of schools don't believe so.

[The Sultan]

Standardized tests don't "prove" anything of the sort. A positive correlation?  Perhaps. But a lot of schools don't believe so.

For instance...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nickmorrison/2020/01/29/its-gpas-not-standardized-tests-that-predict-college-success/?sh=42ad1a5c32bd

[rocket surgeon]

Aptitude? Yes. Maturity and willingness to put forth the effort required? No.

But IMO it's one important component.

you're on to something lenny and maybe too afraid to put it out there cuz the lefties will jump all over it.  the quality of student the middle schools and high schools are putting out is getting weaker and weaker.  each teacher gets the steaming pile from the previous and they don't have much choice but to pass on what they can, shove it under the carpet and go home to drink themselves to sleep.  many of the colleges are dropping the testing requirements because they are afraid of what they will be seeing, except they are doing really well with the crt parts