Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking

[4everwarriors]

Well, when da bell rings, Pavlov's dogs start salivatin', hey?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

  so you are saying my daddy is a dumb ass?  selling his business, his legacy to someone who is going to crash and burn it?  selling it to someone who would embarrass him and everything he's done/built for 40 years?  you are even dumber than i thought.  i wouldn't want you near my kids much less( A LOT less) even reekos kids

Born on third base, insists he hit a triple.

[rocket surgeon]

  you guys can't handle disagreements.  whenever someone posts a different point of view, ya'll get personal and that's where it goes off the rails

[Uncle Rico]

  you guys can't handle disagreements.  whenever someone posts a different point of view, ya'll get personal and that's where it goes off the rails

10 of 10 for the humorous irony

[rocket surgeon]

Born on third base, insists he hit a triple.

wrong again tiny-he put me in the batters box.  every patient we see is a test.  i have nothing to prove to you

  your daddy didn't even want you in the dug out

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Born on third base, insists he hit a triple.

Tell us about your march out of poverty.  🐷🐷

[avid1010]

you don't know schiff about me sultan.  you guys hiding behind your desks.  i have to prove myself multiple times per day, every day.  there is no tenure in our jobs.  we are constantly being evaluated.  ain't much room for error dude.  your students don't have a choice but to see you.  you get paid regardless.  you wouldn't last a week in the private sector

Interesting fact...the dismissal rate of teachers is higher than it is at fortune 500 companies. 

[Uncle Rico]

Well, test scores for today's students are much better today than they were in the 1970s.

Hey, someone remind me, when were the geniuses that comprise Scoop's Meat Crew/Underboard in school?

https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=38

The average reading score for 9-year-old students was 12 points higher in 2020 than in 1971, but not significantly different from the average score in 2012. Thirteen-year-olds scored higher in 2020 with a 5-point gain from 1971, but lower in comparison to 2012.

The overall national trend in mathematics shows improvement for 9-year-old and 13-year-old students in comparison to 1973. The average mathematics score for 9-year-old students was 22 points higher in 2020 than in 1973, and the score for 13-year-olds was 14 points higher

Thank a teacher

[The Sultan]

  you guys can't handle disagreements.  whenever someone posts a different point of view, ya'll get personal and that's where it goes off the rails

Go back and review the topic. Tell me who first got personal.

[avid1010]

Allow me to be the arrogant snob on this one...have a phd in this stuff.  Test scores better now than ever in the US with all kids testing (obviously there was segregation and then "special schools").  Comparing across countries is nearly impossible....but the US is the best country at educating students in the upper 50% income bracket...and one of the worst countries for those in the bottom 50% (per ACT).  Aristocracy vs. meritocracy...Billy makes a point...the only reason the Obama's and Clinton's were allowed in the Ivy's was because the Ivy's went to a meritocracy (test scores).  They have other measures in place now for diversity...but elite private schools essentially had automatic acceptance (think GW Bush).  NAACP and OCR not necessarily against testing.  ACT cut scores are correlated to essentially say a student has a 85% chance of a B or better in the first college course of that subject.  Research shows GPA and grades in most difficult course passed are best predictors of college success. 

[GOO]

Thank a teacher

Thanks. Kids are more intelligent today. Higher IQs. Also a lot more advanced socially.

[GOO]

Allow me to be the arrogant snob on this one...have a phd in this stuff.  Test scores better now than ever in the US with all kids testing (obviously there was segregation and then "special schools").  Comparing across countries is nearly impossible....but the US is the best country at educating students in the upper 50% income bracket...and one of the worst countries for those in the bottom 50% (per ACT).  Aristocracy vs. meritocracy...Billy makes a point...the only reason the Obama's and Clinton's were allowed in the Ivy's was because the Ivy's went to a meritocracy (test scores).  They have other measures in place now for diversity...but elite private schools essentially had automatic acceptance (think GW Bush).  NAACP and OCR not necessarily against testing.  ACT cut scores are correlated to essentially say a student has a 85% chance of a B or better in the first college course of that subject.  Research shows GPA and grades in most difficult course passed are best predictors of college success.

As an aside, what I've seen on 3k and 4K research and the advantages to poorer kids is one of those things that makes me wonder why aren't we doing this yesterday. 

So what is the percentage of legacy admits in the Ivy League currently?

[Hards Alumni]

you don't know schiff about me sultan.  you guys hiding behind your desks.  i have to prove myself multiple times per day, every day.  there is no tenure in our jobs.  we are constantly being evaluated.  ain't much room for error dude.  your students don't have a choice but to see you.  you get paid regardless.  you wouldn't last a week in the private sector

LOL

[avid1010]

As an aside, what I've seen on 3k and 4K research and the advantages to poorer kids is one of those things that makes me wonder why aren't we doing this yesterday. 

So what is the percentage of legacy admits in the Ivy League currently?

there's a pediatrician at uw-madison is known for his research on learning gaps in the first 3 years of life.  i should be able to recall his name with ease...but it escapes me.  after a year, the gaps are minimal (between upper, middle, and lower)...after two years upper and middle separate from lower....after three years upper separates from middle and the gap between lower and middle (and obviously upper) is nearly impossible to correct.  income mobility trending in the wrong direction in this county, and pretty ugly when compared to other countries (though more research that takes immigration into account within those numbers would be beneficial). 

hard to get solid data on legacy admissions.  1/3 is often tossed around. 

i haven't followed it closely, but there's a "fair college admissions for students act" floating around congress right now.  to me it's one of those "fun" bills that both sides can write to point out the hypocrisy of the other side.  hard to argue for a legacy admission process when your mantra is "pull yourself up by your boot-straps" and "no" to affirmative action. 

[Lennys Tap]

there's a pediatrician at uw-madison is known for his research on learning gaps in the first 3 years of life.  i should be able to recall his name with ease...but it escapes me.  after a year, the gaps are minimal (between upper, middle, and lower)...after two years upper and middle separate from lower....after three years upper separates from middle and the gap between lower and middle (and obviously upper) is nearly impossible to correct.  income mobility trending in the wrong direction in this county, and pretty ugly when compared to other countries (though more research that takes immigration into account within those numbers would be beneficial). 

Avid

If I'm understanding you correctly and the die is essentially cast by the time children are 3 years old what solutions or at least mitigations would you recommend?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[brewcity77]

hard to argue for a legacy admission process when your mantra is "pull yourself up by your boot-straps" and "no" to affirmative action.

That has to be the funniest regularly used comment in modern parlance. The original meaning of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" was meant somewhat literally, in the sense that it is something completely impossible. Go ahead, try to grab your shoes and lift yourself off the floor. It cannot be done without outside assistance. The phrase started as a way to poke fun at people trying to do things that were impossible, now it's used as a way to say success is only achieved by managing something that is, quite literally, impossible.

Any time someone uses that idiotic phrase, this is the only appropriate response:

[lawdog77]

That has to be the funniest regularly used comment in modern parlance. The original meaning of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" was meant somewhat literally, in the sense that it is something completely impossible. Go ahead, try to grab your shoes and lift yourself off the floor. It cannot be done without outside assistance. The phrase started as a way to poke fun at people trying to do things that were impossible, now it's used as a way to say success is only achieved by managing something that is, quite literally, impossible.

Any time someone uses that idiotic phrase, this is the only appropriate response:

Thanks Cliff

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

That has to be the funniest regularly used comment in modern parlance. The original meaning of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" was meant somewhat literally, in the sense that it is something completely impossible. Go ahead, try to grab your shoes and lift yourself off the floor. It cannot be done without outside assistance. The phrase started as a way to poke fun at people trying to do things that were impossible, now it's used as a way to say success is only achieved by managing something that is, quite literally, impossible.

Any time someone uses that idiotic phrase, this is the only appropriate response:

Ha. I've always wondered where that phrase came from because it never made sense to me.

[GOO]

Avid

If I'm understanding you correctly and the die is essentially cast by the time children are 3 years old what solutions or at least mitigations would you recommend?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

He/she can comment.

I do understand the issue of IQ being set by age 5 and probably  younger.  So the more time that is wasted when very young, the more time that is lost. Can't get it back.

I do know that combing 3k and 3k with real learning day care have big dividends and reduced incarceration rates down the road. Can actually close the IQ gap with that model between poor and upper middle class kids. Some countries with this model have in fact closed the IQ gap. Which means a big jump in high school and college graduations for the poor. Interesting, it has no effect on upper middle class and above kids.  I guess they already as a group, on average, have the advantages built in to their lives.

[noblewarrior]

He/she can comment.

I do understand the issue of IQ being set by age 5 and probably  younger.  So the more time that is wasted when very young, the more time that is lost. Can't get it back.

I do know that combing 3k and 3k with real learning day care have big dividends and reduced incarceration rates down the road. Can actually close the IQ gap with that model between poor and upper middle class kids. Some countries with this model have in fact closed the IQ gap. Which means a big jump in high school and college graduations for the poor. Interesting, it has no effect on upper middle class and above kids.  I guess they already as a group, on average, have the advantages built in to their lives.

Does this also correlate with stability at home... with daycare being some sort of surrogate, where safety isn't always the primary concern of the child retarding their brain development?   

[MU82]

Interesting conversation, GOO (and others). Thanks.

[Pakuni]

He/she can comment.

I do understand the issue of IQ being set by age 5 and probably  younger.  So the more time that is wasted when very young, the more time that is lost. Can't get it back.

As we've learned more and more about neuoroplasticity, aren't we moving away from former beliefs about intelligence being something entirely established at such an early age, with little room for change?
I'm no expert in this area, but have a read a lot about it, and may be misunderstanding it.

[avid1010]

Avid

If I'm understanding you correctly and the die is essentially cast by the time children are 3 years old what solutions or at least mitigations would you recommend?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Correct...says the guy way smarter than me that did the research at Harvard and now works at UW.  Maya Smart actually gets this as well as anyone.
I haven't been a fan of Biden...but some of his policies, tax cuts, etc... have been pretty good in relation to this. 

There's no doubt there are things you can do after the age of 3...but they haven't been possible to implement/replicate on a large scale to completely close gaps.  For example...ask yourself why charter schools won't take over school districts?  Well, except for New Orleans...then they gave it back.  Privitization in Sweden is an utter mess.  I'm not saying 4K-12 education isn't important...but I am saying the impact in terms of reading and math scores is limited along socio-economic lines, and the push for more privitization isn't proving successful.

[avid1010]

He/she can comment.

I do understand the issue of IQ being set by age 5 and probably  younger.  So the more time that is wasted when very young, the more time that is lost. Can't get it back.

I do know that combing 3k and 3k with real learning day care have big dividends and reduced incarceration rates down the road. Can actually close the IQ gap with that model between poor and upper middle class kids. Some countries with this model have in fact closed the IQ gap. Which means a big jump in high school and college graduations for the poor. Interesting, it has no effect on upper middle class and above kids.  I guess they already as a group, on average, have the advantages built in to their lives.

Nation-wide birth to 3 high quality services and daycare would certainly move the needle.  I don't think anyone argues that...they just don't want to pay for it.

[Lennys Tap]

Correct...says the guy way smarter than me that did the research at Harvard and now works at UW.  Maya Smart actually gets this as well as anyone.
I haven't been a fan of Biden...but some of his policies, tax cuts, etc... have been pretty good in relation to this. 

There's no doubt there are things you can do after the age of 3...but they haven't been possible to implement/replicate on a large scale to completely close gaps.  For example...ask yourself why charter schools won't take over school districts?  Well, except for New Orleans...then they gave it back.  Privitization in Sweden is an utter mess.  I'm not saying 4K-12 education isn't important...but I am saying the impact in terms of reading and math scores is limited along socio-economic lines, and the push for more privitization isn't proving successful.

Thanks, avid. And thanks to GOO also. Very enlightening.