More conference realignment talk

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Again, UIC has nothing to do with this. You want to have a separate conversation about whether or not they should have left early, great do that. This decision was the conference's and the conference's alone. UIC had no say in it.  Fortunately, the conference eventually came to the correct decision.

[WhiteTrash]

The scenario was farcical on purpose.

Every decision a university makes affects the students. Every decision the athletic department makes affects the student athletes. You know this more than anyone on this board.

If you don't agree with a rule or a bylaw, negotiate to change it. Don't just break it and hope there's no repercussions.

Agreed that this particular rule might not be merited. But like you said that's a different discussion.

The rule is in place to protect the league, its other members, and their automatic bid. It's in place to make a team wait the full year and not screw over their players; To avoid this scenario. It goes above and beyond a monetary punishment.  UIC decided it was worth the risk and put the student athletes in the middle.

Obviously I agree with this. The member schools, including UIC, approved the by-laws and the schools ask the conference to enforce all they terms of the conference affiliation. The conference enforces the by-laws, as they are required to do, but now they are the bad guys.

The mind set of violating an agreement and then blaming others is the new mind set of many in America these days.

I'm glad it worked out for the UIC student athletes but it 100% clear that if UIC would have done the ethical and legally required terms of exiting the league, this would not even be a topic of discussion.  But I guess that's too much to ask of anyone these days. 

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

If you don't agree with a rule or a bylaw, negotiate to change it. Don't just break it and hope there's no repercussions.

You do realize you live in the United States in 2022 right?  I think minor college conference post season decisions are a flea at the end of the dog's tail for this argument.

[WhiteTrash]

Again, UIC has nothing to do with this. You want to have a separate conversation about whether or not they should have left early, great do that. This decision was the conference's and the conference's alone. UIC had no say in it.  Fortunately, the conference eventually came to the correct decision.

Would you agree that if UIC acted as required by the terms they agreed to (and maybe championed at one point), that the conference would have not been put in a position to enforce or not enforce the by-laws?

If so, then I don't know how you can declare "UIC has nothing to do with this".

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The conference enforces the by-laws, as they are required to do,

This is incorrect and maybe this is where the confusion is. The conference has a choice of whether or not to enforce a bylaw. They initially chose to. They then decided against it.

Would you agree that if UIC acted as required by the terms they agreed to (and maybe championed at one point), that the conference would have not been put in a position to enforce or not enforce the by-laws?

If so, then I don't know how you can declare "UIC has nothing to do with this".

I do agree with it. But what UIC did or didn't do is irrelevant to whether or not the conference choosing to enforce an unethical bylaw is the right decision. It's only relevant if you look at it through a pre-k lens of "well they started it". Two wrongs don't make a right. The conference can't control what UIC did. They can control how they respond. They initially chose to be petty and punish the student athletes for something they had no control over. They realized their mistake and reversed course. Again, not even the conference you're attempting to defend agrees with you.

[1318WWells]

This is incorrect and maybe this is where the confusion is. The conference has a choice of whether or not to enforce a bylaw. They initially chose to. They then decided against it.

I do agree with it. But what UIC did or didn't do is irrelevant to whether or not the conference choosing to enforce an unethical bylaw is the right decision. It's only relevant if you look at it through a pre-k lens of "well they started it". Two wrongs don't make a right. The conference can't control what UIC did. They can control how they respond. They initially chose to be petty and punish the student athletes for something they had no control over. They realized their mistake and reversed course. Again, not even the conference you're attempting to defend agrees with you.

Ok. What do the student athletes have control over and what can the university be punished for?

[WhiteTrash]

This is incorrect and maybe this is where the confusion is. The conference has a choice of whether or not to enforce a bylaw. They initially chose to. They then decided against it.

I do agree with it. But what UIC did or didn't do is irrelevant to whether or not the conference choosing to enforce an unethical bylaw is the right decision. It's only relevant if you look at it through a pre-k lens of "well they started it". Two wrongs don't make a right. The conference can't control what UIC did. They can control how they respond. They initially chose to be petty and punish the student athletes for something they had no control over. They realized their mistake and reversed course. Again, not even the conference you're attempting to defend agrees with you.

Agree to disagree. You are are making wild assumptions that make intelligent discourse impossible on the issue.

We can all go back to ignoring the Horizon League. 

[The Sultan]

Agree to disagree. You are are making wild assumptions that make intelligent discourse impossible on the issue.

We can all go back to ignoring the Horizon League. 

Sorry, what "wild assumptions" is he making?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Ok. What do the student athletes have control over and what can the university be punished for?

What? I have no problem with the school being punished for violating bylaws. Charge them millions in exit fees.  Require them to schedule home and homes against the conference for x number of years.  Hell, require the university president to issue a statement that UIC is too chicken to compete in the Horizon while wearing a chicken suit.

I have a problem with the punishment falling solely on the student athletes and not on the school... which is what banning UIC did postseason play did.

Agree to disagree. You are are making wild assumptions that make intelligent discourse impossible on the issue.

We can all go back to ignoring the Horizon League. 

There are literally no assumptions in the post you quoted.

[1318WWells]

What? I have no problem with the school being punished for violating bylaws. Charge them millions in exit fees.  Require them to schedule home and homes against the conference for x number of years.  Hell, require the university president to issue a statement that UIC is too chicken to compete in the Horizon while wearing a chicken suit.

I have a problem with the punishment falling solely on the student athletes and not on the school... which is what banning UIC did postseason play did.


There are literally no assumptions in the post you quoted.

Wild assumptions:
UICs decision has nothing to do with the leagues decision. If I commit a crime the punishment is a direct response to my decision to commit a crime.

The leagues punishment was unethical. The punishment must fit in a predetermined and agreed upon range. In which league members agreed this was an ethical punishment.

The punishment falls solely on the student athletes. UIC will benefit from exposure during the conference tournament win or lose. If they are to win the auto bid, they will benefit more than any team in the league.

[The Sultan]

Wild assumptions:
UICs decision has nothing to do with the leagues decision. If I commit a crime the punishment is a direct response to my decision to commit a crime.

The leagues punishment was unethical. The punishment must fit in a predetermined and agreed upon range. In which league members agreed this was an ethical punishment.

The punishment falls solely on the student athletes. UIC will benefit from exposure during the conference tournament win or lose. If they are to win the auto bid, they will benefit more than any team in the league.

Do you know what the word "assumption" means?  Those are opinions...not assumptions.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Wild assumptions:
UICs decision has nothing to do with the leagues decision. If I commit a crime the punishment is a direct response to my decision to commit a crime.

The leagues punishment was unethical. The punishment must fit in a predetermined and agreed upon range. In which league members agreed this was an ethical punishment.

The punishment falls solely on the student athletes. UIC will benefit from exposure during the conference tournament win or lose. If they are to win the auto bid, they will benefit more than any team in the league.

None of those are assumptions.

UICs decision has nothing to do with the question of whether or not the Leagues desicion is ethical or wise.


Again not even the conference you are attempting to defend agrees with you. They realized that they made a mistake.

[1318WWells]

Do you know what the word "assumption" means?  Those are opinions...not assumptions.

Completely different.

[1318WWells]

Do you know what the word "assumption" means?  Those are opinions...not assumptions.

[The Sultan]

Yeah that's not what TAMU did.  He expressed opinions.  He never stated something as absolute truth without proof.

[shoothoops]

Lindenwood University will transition to FCS Football and Division 1 Athletics joining the Ohio Valley Conference. The FCS football component will combine with the Big South. 33 schools have either moved in or out of FCS football in the past 5 years. Lots of movement in these leagues,

The school may sound familiar to some as former Wisconsin Coach Brad Soderberg used to be their basketball coach when they transitioned from NAIA to D-2 a little over 10 plus years ago. And for old timers its a former NFL training camp site in the 1970's.

[Billy Hoyle]

Obviously I agree with this. The member schools, including UIC, approved the by-laws and the schools ask the conference to enforce all they terms of the conference affiliation. The conference enforces the by-laws, as they are required to do, but now they are the bad guys.

The mind set of violating an agreement and then blaming others is the new mind set of many in America these days.

I'm glad it worked out for the UIC student athletes but it 100% clear that if UIC would have done the ethical and legally required terms of exiting the league, this would not even be a topic of discussion.  But I guess that's too much to ask of anyone these days.

"hey now, when we happily voted to punish others, including student-athletes, we didn't mean for it to apply to us. Unfair!" - UIC administration.

[Herman Cain]

Lindenwood University will transition to FCS Football and Division 1 Athletics joining the Ohio Valley Conference. The FCS football component will combine with the Big South. 33 schools have either moved in or out of FCS football in the past 5 years. Lots of movement in these leagues,

The school may sound familiar to some as former Wisconsin Coach Brad Soderberg used to be their basketball coach when they transitioned from NAIA to D-2 a little over 10 plus years ago. And for old timers its a former NFL training camp site in the 1970's.

Smart move by Lindenwood

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Gonzaga to the a Big East picking up some serious steam...

[MUfan12]

Gonzaga to the a Big East picking up some serious steam...

From where, exactly? Seeing unverified Twitter accounts talking about it.

[Pakuni]

Tired: NCAA Basketball season
Wired: Gonzaga to the Big East szn

[Herman Cain]

Hopefully it won't happen. We already have too many tough teams in the conference.

[brewcity77]

Maybe it happens, but I think Gonzaga to the Big East is just the league-wide version of "Let's change the name back to Warriors." Every offseason, once it starts to slow down a little, we'll have this discussion, people will have passionate takes in both directions, and nothing will come of it. Happy to be wrong, though.

[PGsHeroes32]

Sounds like Gonzaga is definitely bouncing, its just a matter of where.

I dont like losing the round robin.

Might be time to eject a team.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Just seems like a little more smoke than usual this year.