More conference realignment talk

[WhiteTrash]

I agree with you that UConn basketball leaving is a big deal and huge hit to the BE.  You mention KState and KU. KState has a very solid football program...and has had for the past 20 yrs or so. Kansas football has an outstanding coach, with a new and bigly financial commitment to football. Not sure which current Big12 football programs would be considered dogs, but regardless, UConn football would be yrs behind the Big12's worst. If, however, the Big12 is ok with crappy UConn football to get great UConn basketball...and UConn gets desperately needed income to turn the balance sheet? UConn is gone (in part, maybe not dissimilar to financially troubled UCLA athletics going BIG10).

Assuming the Big12 doesn't offer them the Oregon/Washington B10 deal (reduced payout) or worse like the SMU ACC deal, I think UCONN should go. If the Big12 is looking for them to become competitive in the Big12 for football, there will be major pressure to divert men's and women's basketball resources to get there, even with increased revenues.

The Big12 schools for a large part, enjoy very passionate boosters to keep them completive with the SEC & B10. Not sure if UCONN can expect that additional support to even keep pace. I think the most likely outcome for UCONN football in the Big12 is being the DePaul of the Big12.

All that said, I still think it is a very long shot that UCONN would get support of the ADs and presidents. Yormark and the Big12 have had fan bases of SMU, Memphis, Gonzaga, Tulane, Colorado State, SDSU, etc. all convinced they were becoming members in the past decade. 

[tower912]

If the Big 12 comes calling and the then president and then AD decide this is best for MU, then MU will write a large check and hand over a boatload of tourney credits to the rest of the Big East.   There will be endless debates on scoop.   A week later, Herman will start an identical thread.   We will have to learn new rivals, new traditions, and we will go on a different journey.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Anyone who thinks UConn leaving the BE is not a problem is kidding themselves. It would be a huge loss for the conference. Having your league win a national championship is a big deal in the world of recruiting because really good players want to play against really good teams. UConn leaving means the league has to add a lesser school to take their place and then you are back to the Dayton, SLU, etc discussion.

UConn's weakness in football is not as big a problem as one might think. After all, Kansas and Kansas State are not exactly football factories. I think UConn can at least get to that level. And, UConn gives the Big 12 a whole new geographical territory to work with. Sad to say, but football calls the shots.

Anytime a program leaves a conference, it is not good IMO.  You either have a program that gets "elevated" or "promoted" in terms of payouts, exposure, etc., or if you have a program that has become so bad that it needs to get booted in order to protect the rest of the league (i.e. Temple/Big East).  It's why I laughed so often in 2019 (when UConn announced it was leaving the AAC); there were many fans of those schools (in the AAC) that argued that they were better off and that they could easily replace the value in UConn Basketball with a VCU.  Yes, you might be losing the anchor of UConn Football, but the value they provide in basketball is so exponentially higher than what anyone else offers in any sport that it is foolish to believe otherwise. 

UConn leaving would not be good, but the league (and its members) will continue to perform as one of the top leagues in the country.  Thankfully, the league has proven this already (with Villanova).  There's nothing that is preventing us (or another BE program) from continuing to compete for NCAA championships or deep tournament runs. 

However, long-term, the league will need to grow beyond ten teams.  Losing the round robin with 20 conference games (and all of the content in games) would need to be replaced.  Having one less game at MSG for the BET is also a huge loss.  As much as many would not want to admit it, the league would need to expand to replace. 

[Scoop Snoop]

If the Big 12 comes calling and the then president and then AD decide this is best for MU, then MU will write a large check and hand over a boatload of tourney credits to the rest of the Big East.   There will be endless debates on scoop.   A week later, Herman will start an identical thread.   We will have to learn new rivals, new traditions, and we will go on a different journey.

Oh you be quiet!

True, but I have difficulty imagining the Big 12 presidents of those of other conferences buying into Yormark's vision. Hey, maybe we join the A10. 

[MU82]

Oh you be quiet!

True, but I have difficulty imagining the Big 12 presidents of those of other conferences buying into Yormark's vision. Hey, maybe we join the A10. 

Way back when, didn't the Dayton guy post here something like Marquette would be begging to join the A-10 but they wouldn't take us?

[The Sultan]

Way back when, didn't the Dayton guy post here something like Marquette would be begging to join the A-10 but they wouldn't take us?

Of all the freezing cold takes on Scoop, this one approaches absolute zero.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=34539.msg422884#msg422884

[wadesworld]

Of all the freezing cold takes on Scoop, this one approaches absolute zero.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=34539.msg422884#msg422884

What might be the funniest part of that is a poster (and another agreeing with him) saying that MSG is no longer a draw because of the Barclays Center.  LOL.

I know as a fan I'm definitely attending the A10 conference tourney over the BE.

[WhiteTrash]

Of all the freezing cold takes on Scoop, this one approaches absolute zero.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=34539.msg422884#msg422884

[Galway Eagle]

Way back when, didn't the Dayton guy post here something like Marquette would be begging to join the A-10 but they wouldn't take us?

Of his three crazy posts I can never decide my favorite.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=33574.msg408366#msg408366

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=34386.msg420655#msg420655

[GoFastAndWin]

Val > Yoda or Yormark or whatever his name is.

The ONLY way MU accepts any B12 offer is if the BigEast is ever denied entry into a hypothetical new power-conference-only big dance tourney model, which btw would be a 💩 model. I think we all know this.

I truly don't think people should underestimate what the Big East has accomplished these last 10 years. Nor should they underestimate Val.

If UCONN still can't figure out where its bread is buttered, LET THEM GO and chase the sucking sound of vanishing resources to keep 🏈 on its perpetual ER IV drip.

[wadesworld]

Val > Yoda or Yormark or whatever his name is.

The ONLY way MU accepts any B12 offer is if the BigEast is ever denied entry into a hypothetical new power-conference-only big dance tourney model, which btw would be a 💩 model. I think we all know this.

I truly don't think people should underestimate what the Big East has accomplished these last 10 years. Nor should they underestimate Val.

If UCONN still can't figure out where its bread is buttered, LET THEM GO and chase the sucking sound of vanishing resources to keep 🏈 on its perpetual ER IV drip.

MU would be dumb to pass on an invite to join the B12.  If MU declined, the next up team out of the BE would accept.  How people don't understand that conference realignment isn't suddenly going to stop is wild to me.  Stay ahead of the game and MU will be fine.  Sit around and think the BE is just going to be what it is and we'll be in trouble.

[tower912]

I will not believe that the P5 is interested in poaching basketball only schools until it happens.     Since the discussions cited from 12-13 years ago occurred, how many basketball only schools have been accepted into football conferences?   In that same time frame, how much shuffling has there been among football schools?

[Scoop Snoop]

MU would be dumb to pass on an invite to join the B12.  If MU declined, the next up team out of the BE would accept.  How people don't understand that conference realignment isn't suddenly going to stop is wild to me.  Stay ahead of the game and MU will be fine.  Sit around and think the BE is just going to be what it is and we'll be in trouble.

During the first conference realignment, there seemed to be an attitude that we could laugh about it while munching on popcorn and watch the FB schools fight it out. It was not until the second major shakeup that BE fans started to realize that our "bball only" conference could be threatened. While I really think the BE will be fine, I know perfectly well that I could be proven wrong. We are swimming with sharks.

[WhiteTrash]

I will not believe that the P5 is interested in poaching basketball only schools until it happens.     Since the discussions cited from 12-13 years ago occurred, how many basketball only schools have been accepted into football conferences?   In that same time frame, how much shuffling has there been among football schools?

P5? What is this 2023? 

[tower912]

The other scenario I see as just as likely is that a basketball team leaves the Big East.  And then the conference it jumped too gets dissolved/split into pieces, etc.   Then what does ( ) do?  Come back to the Big East hat in hand?

The Big East is the pinnacle of no football conferences.    Throwing your lot in with the cannibalistic chaos that is college football is frought with its own dangers.

[The Sultan]

I will not believe that the P5 is interested in poaching basketball only schools until it happens.     Since the discussions cited from 12-13 years ago occurred, how many basketball only schools have been accepted into football conferences?   In that same time frame, how much shuffling has there been among football schools?

Right. The BE accepted a school that still had an FBS program and knew that their leaving could be a risk. This is far different than inviting a non-football member.

The other scenario I see as just as likely is that a basketball team leaves the Big East.  And then the conference it jumped too gets dissolved/split into pieces, etc.   Then what does ( ) do?  Come back to the Big East hat in hand?

That's kinda what UConn did right?  It's what the B12 and Colorado did.

If it is a mutually beneficial option for both parties, they will get back together.

[bilsu]

I will not believe that the P5 is interested in poaching basketball only schools until it happens.     Since the discussions cited from 12-13 years ago occurred, how many basketball only schools have been accepted into football conferences?   In that same time frame, how much shuffling has there been among football schools?

I think their long-term plan is to have their own NCAA tournament. They cannot leave UConn out, because they are the premier program at this time. They will not include any non-football schools.

[The Sultan]

I think their long-term plan is to have their own NCAA tournament. They cannot leave UConn out, because they are the premier program at this time. They will not include any non-football schools.

Nothing will happen until 2032 when the current (and bad) men's tournament deal expires. That is also when the newly signed deal for all of the other NCAA sports expires as well. ESPN is the rights holder to that deal, and since the P4 includes a number of ESPN partners, I don't see many reason why the P4 will leave now and make those contracts worthless. There would be lawsuits-a-plenty anyway.

In 2032, my guess is that the P4 will pretty much demand that, if they stay in the NCAA, that media distributions for the men's tournament and other sports be mostly made up of tournament credits. Then you will see tournament expansion, which will include more at-larges mostly made up from P4 schools.

The NCAA will be reduced to an organization that puts together championships (which they do really well), recruiting calendars, and that's about it. Their entire enforcement mechanism will be dismantled. So they won't need much of a budget anyway.

But if they DO decide to part from the NCAA, I think they would take a number of conferences that play FCS football or are non-football as well. The money will still be in their favor, but I think the backlash will be too big.

[muwarrior69]

Here is an old article (2019). Of all the TV contracts the NCAAT is the most profitable for the networks.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmoney/2019/03/19/march-madness-is-most-profitable-postseason-tv-deal-in-sports/

I doubt the networks will allow the football schools to torpedo their prize cash cow.

[79Warrior]

I will not believe that the P5 is interested in poaching basketball only schools until it happens.     Since the discussions cited from 12-13 years ago occurred, how many basketball only schools have been accepted into football conferences?   In that same time frame, how much shuffling has there been among football schools?

I agree. The major football schools  have no interest in basketball only schools. As it is now, the schedules will be very difficult to balance out. Give it a few years when the bottom half of the teams in the mega conferences get tired of getting shut out and they will pine for the good old days.

[Mr. Nielsen]

It takes a super majority (at least 12 of the 16 Big 12 schools) to approve such a move. Two schools are already, no's

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-12-presidents-pitched-on-potential-uconn-addition-but-lack-of-consensus-likely-to-prolong-decision/

[MurphysTillClose]

Nothing will happen until 2032 when the current (and bad) men's tournament deal expires. That is also when the newly signed deal for all of the other NCAA sports expires as well. ESPN is the rights holder to that deal, and since the P4 includes a number of ESPN partners, I don't see many reason why the P4 will leave now and make those contracts worthless. There would be lawsuits-a-plenty anyway.

In 2032, my guess is that the P4 will pretty much demand that, if they stay in the NCAA, that media distributions for the men's tournament and other sports be mostly made up of tournament credits. Then you will see tournament expansion, which will include more at-larges mostly made up from P4 schools.

The NCAA will be reduced to an organization that puts together championships (which they do really well), recruiting calendars, and that's about it. Their entire enforcement mechanism will be dismantled. So they won't need much of a budget anyway.

But if they DO decide to part from the NCAA, I think they would take a number of conferences that play FCS football or are non-football as well. The money will still be in their favor, but I think the backlash will be too big.

Last paragraph is the crux of what I've been saying. Networks run college sports now, nobody else. Networks want that Monday night hoops slot with a good matchup. Adding hoops only schools will help them add to that schedule. The yearly rev they can offer (even if less than football schools but more than BE) is what I worry about.

I do not want this, nor do I think it's best for fans/culture/college sports.

But if I've learned anything since graduating in 2013 with the end of the old BE, it's that schools nor conferences give a single sh*t about fans, the culture, or anything else but the dollar.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Nothing will happen until 2032 when the current (and bad) men's tournament deal expires. That is also when the newly signed deal for all of the other NCAA sports expires as well. ESPN is the rights holder to that deal, and since the P4 includes a number of ESPN partners, I don't see many reason why the P4 will leave now and make those contracts worthless. There would be lawsuits-a-plenty anyway.

In 2032, my guess is that the P4 will pretty much demand that, if they stay in the NCAA, that media distributions for the men's tournament and other sports be mostly made up of tournament credits. Then you will see tournament expansion, which will include more at-larges mostly made up from P4 schools.

The NCAA will be reduced to an organization that puts together championships (which they do really well), recruiting calendars, and that's about it. Their entire enforcement mechanism will be dismantled. So they won't need much of a budget anyway.

But if they DO decide to part from the NCAA, I think they would take a number of conferences that play FCS football or are non-football as well. The money will still be in their favor, but I think the backlash will be too big.

Agree with most of this. I think the most likely scenario is the NCAA remains,  but the balance of power is shifted even further towards the P2.5. Other possibilities for sure but I don't think the power schools are as keen to leave the NCAA as people think

[DFW HOYA]

But if I've learned anything since graduating in 2013 with the end of the old BE, it's that schools nor conferences give a single sh*t about fans, the culture, or anything else but the dollar.

Yes and no. For all the concerns that athletic budgets are out of control, I don't see many fans willing to see their teams play games in a field house instead of an NBA arena, or having players take a job on campus to go through college, or watch their team taking a bus instead of a charter jet.  This is the price of competition.

[MurphysTillClose]

Yes and no. For all the concerns that athletic budgets are out of control, I don't see many fans willing to see their teams play games in a field house instead of an NBA arena, or having players take a job on campus to go through college, or watch their team taking a bus instead of a charter jet.  This is the price of competition.

Ok. So you're agreeing with my sentiment that it takes one call to the VU, MU or CU athletic department to leave. Brew explained it well that the dollars do not equal success