2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs

[brewcity77]

Sure, but he still added 7 rebounds, 9 assists and 3 steals.  He's averaging 6 and 6 throughout the playoffs.  His scoring efficiency is way down, no doubt, but he's still contributing a lot, not to mention his profound defensive impact.

He's unquestionably their second best player and to suggest otherwise, even if his scoring output isn't what you ideally want, is dramatic and silly

But even he hasn't been remotely close to second-best-on-a-championship-team good. You can parse it however you like, but if you have someone stepping up to give 20-30 points of efficient scoring like Allen did for those games in Chicago, it eases things, but no one on this Bucks team without Middleton is doing that consistently. The comment wasn't so much about Greyson Allen or Jrue Holiday or anyone on the Bucks, just that after Giannis, this team isn't good enough without KM to repeat what they did last year.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Can someone explain why George Hill guarded Tatum every time Hill was in the game?

[cheebs09]

Can someone explain why George Hill guarded Tatum every time Hill was in the game?

Bud has an irrational love of George Hill. I was hoping for more Carter yesterday. He’s been a spark plug at times.

[JWags85]

But even he hasn't been remotely close to second-best-on-a-championship-team good. You can parse it however you like, but if you have someone stepping up to give 20-30 points of efficient scoring like Allen did for those games in Chicago, it eases things, but no one on this Bucks team without Middleton is doing that consistently. The comment wasn't so much about Greyson Allen or Jrue Holiday or anyone on the Bucks, just that after Giannis, this team isn't good enough without KM to repeat what they did last year.

If your "second best on a championship team" is someone routinely shooting 10/12, that's not a reasonable expectation.

Jrue has been bad the last 3 games, full stop.  But 26 on 10/21 (5/8 from 3) with 7 assists is just as valuable Allen's 27 pt 10/12  game where he did little else.  Jrue scoring 25 on 8/20 (3/5) but also giving you 9 and 5 like he did in the Game 1 win is also huge.

Its just weird singling out Allen who had 2 good games in Chicago and little else the rest of that series or the Boston series...when Jrue was a big reason they won Game 1 and a huge reason they won Game 3, despite not being efficient as he can be.

Does he need to be better for them to win this series, and beyond?  Absolutely.  But he's still been the second best/most important player on this team with Middleton out.  I honestly expect more and consistent productive from BP than I would from Allen.

[brewcity77]

If your "second best on a championship team" is someone routinely shooting 10/12, that's not a reasonable expectation.

Jrue has been bad the last 3 games, full stop.  But 26 on 10/21 (5/8 from 3) with 7 assists is just as valuable Allen's 27 pt 10/12  game where he did little else.  Jrue scoring 25 on 8/20 (3/5) but also giving you 9 and 5 like he did in the Game 1 win is also huge.

Its just weird singling out Allen who had 2 good games in Chicago and little else the rest of that series or the Boston series...when Jrue was a big reason they won Game 1 and a huge reason they won Game 3, despite not being efficient as he can be.

Does he need to be better for them to win this series, and beyond?  Absolutely.  But he's still been the second best/most important player on this team with Middleton out.  I honestly expect more and consistent productive from BP than I would from Allen.

The IRL conversation I had that inspired the comment, which I alluded to in the original post on the topic but didn't expound upon, was that I was talking about it shortly after Middleton went down. He went down in Game 2 against the Bulls. They lost. Then Allen stepped up in Games 3 & 4 in Chicago and they won. I was talking to someone at work and said "Greyson Allen has been great, but he can't be your second best player if you want to win a championship."

In the immediate aftermath of Middleton going down, Allen was the guy that stepped up to secure those two road wins. That's the context I'm talking about. I apologize if I didn't elaborate in that post and hope this provides a little more clarity.

[MU82]

As part of a longer NBA column, The Athletic's Joe Vardon says Rivers shouldn't be on the hot seat with the Sixers:

There is almost no justification to dismiss Rivers, who still has three years and $24 million remaining on his contract. Philadelphia finished first in the Eastern Conference last season and flamed out in the playoffs because its second-best player broke down in ways that were beyond Rivers’ control.

Under Rivers’ tutelage, Maxey has become a budding star. And, the Sixers played up through the All-Star break this season without Ben Simmons because of that aforementioned breakdown in the second round of last season’s playoffs.

To get Harden, the Sixers not only had to trade Simmons — who was never going to play for Philadelphia again — but they also had to move two important role players in Seth Curry and Andre Drummond. This perhaps weakened the team’s top-to-bottom rotation in fortifying its starting lineup with an aging but still highly effective Harden.

Then there is Embiid, a five-time All-Star whose two best seasons as a pro have come with Rivers as his coach. Embiid is the present and future of the Sixers. He’s under contract through 2027. And it was Embiid who preferred Rivers over Tyronn Lue, an early favorite to land in Philadelphia before the Sixers ultimately hired Doc.

If the Sixers fall in this series, one would have to consider Embiid’s absence in Games 1 and 2 (both Miami wins) and a trying regular season in which Philadelphia played less than whole while finishing in fourth place in a crowded East.

While it is true that Sixers general manager Daryl Morey did not hire Rivers (Morey joined the organization after Doc), Rivers’ performance over the last two seasons, regardless of what happens in these playoffs, should not be justification for Morey to bid him goodbye anyway.

Well, Rivers left Embiid on the court at the end of a blowout win against Toronto, in which Embiid took an elbow to the face, you say? Why aren’t we criticizing Grizzlies coach Taylor Jenkins, then, for Ja Morant being on the court in Game 3 of a blowout loss to the Warriors and hurting his knee (Jordan Poole or no Jordan Poole)?

The only justification I can find for firing Rivers now would be if you blame him for Simmons. After the Sixers had lost Game 7 last season to the Hawks and Simmons suffered such an unfortunate final few minutes, Rivers said he didn’t know if Philadelphia could win a title with Simmons as its point guard.

Embiid also was critical of Simmons. If Simmons’ checking out, the trade for Harden, shipping out of Curry, Drummond and two draft picks arguably weakened the Sixers’ future, and that’s all traced back to Rivers, then perhaps there would be a case.

Are you willing to connect those dots? Is Morey?

I'd argue that leaving Embiid on the court to get hurt was really bad, and the fact that the Memphis coach did similar with Morant is just whataboutism that doesn't excuse Rivers' decision.

Simmons is just in a very bad place, and I doubt another coach could have solved that problem.

If judging the overall body of work, I'd agree Rivers doesn't deserve to be on the hot seat.

[MuggsyB]

This Adrien Payne story is freaking bizarre. 

[JWags85]

The IRL conversation I had that inspired the comment, which I alluded to in the original post on the topic but didn't expound upon, was that I was talking about it shortly after Middleton went down. He went down in Game 2 against the Bulls. They lost. Then Allen stepped up in Games 3 & 4 in Chicago and they won. I was talking to someone at work and said "Greyson Allen has been great, but he can't be your second best player if you want to win a championship."

In the immediate aftermath of Middleton going down, Allen was the guy that stepped up to secure those two road wins. That's the context I'm talking about. I apologize if I didn't elaborate in that post and hope this provides a little more clarity.

Fair, that makes more sense.  I certainly dont disagree

[Mutaman]

I’ve always liked Al Horford going way back to his college days with Noah. I always wished the Bucks had drafted or traded for him. But come on, this is ridiculous- the guy is shooting 50% from three point land- not even Bird could do that . Not even Brian Winters. Not even Downtown Freddie Brown- let’s get serious here.

On a night when Klay Thompson goes 0-7.

Bud should insist that he be given some sort of drug test.

[MuggsyB]

Weren't Strus and Paul Reed on DePaul the same year?

[MuggsyB]

Jimmy continues to get buckets in the playoffs.

[MU82]

I’ve always liked Al Horford going way back to his college days with Noah. I always wished the Bucks had drafted or traded for him. But come on, this is ridiculous- the guy is shooting 50% from three point land- not even Bird could do that . Not even Brian Winters. Not even Downtown Freddie Brown- let’s get serious here.

On a night when Klay Thompson goes 0-7.

Bud should insist that he be given some sort of drug test.

Well, Curry had 5 full seasons in which he shot 44% or better from 3. And Ray Allen had 3 full postseasons in which he shot 47% or better (including 57% in one of them), so Horford having a few hot games isn’t exactly the stuff of miracles.

Also, maybe the Bucks should, I don’t know, stop leaving him wide open?

[BM1090]

Well, Curry had 5 full seasons in which he shot 44% or better from 3. And Ray Allen had 3 full postseasons in which he shot 47% or better (including 57% in one of them), so Horford having a few hot games isn’t exactly the stuff of miracles.

Also, maybe the Bucks should, I don’t know, stop leaving him wide open?

That’s not what Bud is going to do. They’ll continue to focus all their energy on protecting the paint and limiting Tatum and Brown and force Horford, Williams, White, Smart and Pritchard to beat them.

Will it work? Probably not. But that’s the way they’ll die.

[MU82]

That’s not what Bud is going to do. They’ll continue to focus all their energy on protecting the paint and limiting Tatum and Brown and force Horford, Williams, White, Smart and Pritchard to beat them.

Will it work? Probably not. But that’s the way they’ll die.

I usually like that strategy, but eventually you have to acknowledge that a guy is just red-hot and respect that, don't you?

Or maybe not. In the 1995 playoffs (MJ's first after coming out of retirement a couple months earlier), Phil Jackson decided that leaving Horace Grant open from 15-20 was the way to beat the Magic. And it probably was sound strategy given the other weapons Orlando had, including Shaq. But Grant shot .647, averaging 18 ppg and 11 rpg, and the Magic won the series. And Jackson was a pretty good coach.

[BrewCity83]

No way Horford goes 5-7 on threes again in a game this series.  Let him try...

[Its DJOver]

I assume Friday's game time hinges on if Memphis can extend their series?  Do we know what the different options are though?

[MUfan12]

I assume Friday's game time hinges on if Memphis can extend their series?  Do we know what the different options are though?

I'd assume 6:30 if Memphis wins tonight, 7:30 if not.

[cheebs09]

Feels like the Bucks are letting the Celtics get into the paint too easily. Nice to be up though.

[wadesworld]

Feels like the Bucks are letting the Celtics get into the paint too easily. Nice to be up though.

Yeah I don’t know why they’re hedging out past the ball handler at the top of the key with their bigs at times. And George Hill and Brook teaming up to guard the pick and roll isn’t going to usually end well for the Bucks.

[MuggsyB]

My phone says the Bucks have an insane amount of turns.

[wadesworld]

This is really hard to watch. Giannis is doing absolutely everything he can to carry the Bucks. Just not enough there.

[MuggsyB]

This is really hard to watch. Giannis is doing absolutely everything he can to carry the Bucks. Just not enough there.

It sure looks that way in the box score.  I missed the first half but 7 is nothing.

[Uncle Rico]

Peddle Giannis for Hauser

[MuggsyB]

Let's go now. Maybe that wakes the rest of the Bucks up.

[MuggsyB]

Better ball movement by the Celtics