2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs

[MUfan12]

If you have a subscription to the Athletic, Eric Nehm went deep on Jrue Holiday's defensive prowess. Including film clips with Jrue giving analysis. It'll take some time to get through, but if you're a basketball nerd, it's really fun.

https://theathletic.com/3203712/2022/04/11/bucks-guard-jrue-holiday-on-his-secrets-to-being-one-of-the-nbas-best-defenders/

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Herro vs Connaughton is comparing apples and oranges.  If they were traded for each other straight up, the Bucks and Heat might both get worse.

On the Bucks, Herro would be reduced to the 4th option behind Giannis, Middleton, and Holiday.  He could match Connaughton's offense but the Bucks would get worse on defense.  Overall a net loss.

On the Heat, Connaughton wouldn't be able to replicate Herro's volume scoring.  The Heat have plenty of role playing shooters already like Max Strus and Duncan Robinson.  Jimmy Butler and Bam Adebayo are good scorers but not good enough to carry an offense by themselves. A volume scorer is more valuable to the Heat due to their roster construction.

Right.  I was only comparing them because they had similar VORP scores, but their games and their roles are completely different.

Herro is still a weak defender.  He's also inconsistent.  His true shooting percentage , as was discussed earlier in this thread, bears that out.

Consistency is what separates the great players from the good players.  So, while Herro looks like an All-Star at times, he lacks All-Star consistency.  That's why I put Herro in the 76-100 tier.

Exactly.  And at 22, that's to be expected somewhat.  The question the Heat have to answer is whether or not he will become more consistent.  Remember that his is only four years removed from high school.

[BM1090]

If you have a subscription to the Athletic, Eric Nehm went deep on Jrue Holiday's defensive prowess. Including film clips with Jrue giving analysis. It'll take some time to get through, but if you're a basketball nerd, it's really fun.

https://theathletic.com/3203712/2022/04/11/bucks-guard-jrue-holiday-on-his-secrets-to-being-one-of-the-nbas-best-defenders/

Absolutely. One of my favorite articles of the year.

[JWags85]

Exactly.  And at 22, that's to be expected somewhat.  The question the Heat have to answer is whether or not he will become more consistent.  Remember that his is only four years removed from high school.

Totally fair.  I think its just an interesting revisit cause Herro was getting mocked for wanting to be talked about with other young stars, when all he's done is continue to improve.  Does he need to get more consistent?  Absolutely.  But all he's done YoY is improve his stats across the board as his usage and role continues to grow.

Not to mention Connaughton is likely at his ceiling where as Herro has a ways to go potentially.  If I had to bet, Herro gets a big contract but also lives up to the majority of its value.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Some of the criticism at the beginning of the year made sense.  He was a key player in the 2020 bubbled playoffs, but did not show much growth from there in 2021.  He has been better this year.

[Skatastrophy]

Some of the criticism at the beginning of the year made sense.  He was a key player in the 2020 bubbled playoffs, but did not show much growth from there in 2021.  He has been better this year.

Good thing too. The Heat really leaned on him hard with their injuries. He played the most minutes on the team this season, and really thrived coming off the bench. It'll be interesting to see what role he plays when the team's healthy.

[wadesworld]

Totally fair.  I think its just an interesting revisit cause Herro was getting mocked for wanting to be talked about with other young stars, when all he's done is continue to improve.  Does he need to get more consistent?  Absolutely.  But all he's done YoY is improve his stats across the board as his usage and role continues to grow.

Not to mention Connaughton is likely at his ceiling where as Herro has a ways to go potentially.  If I had to bet, Herro gets a big contract but also lives up to the majority of its value.

I think Herro should still be getting mocked for saying he should be in the same conversation as Luca Doncic, Ja Morant, and Trae Young.  Herro's better at 22 than I thought he'd ever be (at least offensively), so obviously he deserves a ton of credit.  But those are two guys who will be legitimate MVP candidates every year for the next decade and a third guy who's not far behind those two and was the best player on a team he carried to the Eastern Conference Finals last year.  Herro is good.  He's not in the same category as Doncic, Morant, or Trae (who is a category below the first two himself).

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So Kyrie just said post game that he’s fasting for Ramadan. Is he Muslim now?

[forgetful]

So Kyrie just said post game that he’s fasting for Ramadan. Is he Muslim now?

He converted over a year ago (or at least it was widely publicized a year ago).

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

He converted over a year ago (or at least it was widely publicized a year ago).

Ah. I just thought it was Kyrie being Kyrie.

[forgetful]

Ah. I just thought it was Kyrie being Kyrie.

He does crazy so often, it is hard to keep up with his latest crazy. This one seems to be an actual legit change in lifestyle. I just remember it, because it was talked about during the last playoffs a bunch...then forgotten about, was reminded of it during his postgame interview too.

[MuggsyB]

The play-in games are just dumb.  I have no idea why this change was made. 

[MU82]

The play-in games are just dumb.  I have no idea why this change was made.

To keep more teams alive longer, thereby giving more fans hope longer, thereby wringing more $$$ from hopeful fans.

You might not like the idea, but the NBA knew exactly what they were doing, and it’s working.

[MuggsyB]

To keep more teams alive longer, thereby giving more fans hope longer, thereby wringing more $$$ from hopeful fans.

You might not like the idea, but the NBA knew exactly what they were doing, and it’s working.

The fact that Minnesota with 46 wins can be knocked out of the playoffs and a team with 12 more losses can get in because of the result of 2 games is absurd.

[MU82]

The fact that Minnesota with 46 wins can be knocked out of the playoffs and a team with 12 more losses can get in because of the result of 2 games is absurd.

Again, I am not arguing in favor of this format. You said: I have no idea why this change was made. I simply explained why.

[forgetful]

The fact that Minnesota with 46 wins can be knocked out of the playoffs and a team with 12 more losses can get in because of the result of 2 games is absurd.

If Minnesota loses two straight games (at home), one of which is to a team with 12 more losses than them, then they don't deserve to be in the playoffs.

They get 2 chances to play and be in. They need to prove they belong.

[MuggsyB]

If Minnesota loses two straight games (at home), one of which is to a team with 12 more losses than them, then they don't deserve to be in the playoffs.

They get 2 chances to play and be in. They need to prove they belong.

I dunno.....can't anything happen in two games vs different opponents? 

[JWags85]

He converted over a year ago (or at least it was widely publicized a year ago).

He actually said he was embracing Islam and all religions.  Cause he still practices some of the Native American spiritual practices like sage.

[Jockey]

I dunno.....can't anything happen in two games vs different opponents?

It can, but it is unusual.

Now if you want to talk about baseball’s playoff format - that’s a whole different thing.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The play-in games are just dumb.  I have no idea why this change was made.

In addition to start 82 said,  it also cuts down on teams tanking, which again keeps fans more interested and spending money

[PGsHeroes32]

Wolves win.

Pat Bev full blown acting like they won the title and crying was a bit much considering he goes to the playoffs every year. But otherwise great environment.

Packed house. Rowdy crowd. A franchise that deserves to celebrate a little play in. Just needed something positive.

Tonight proved 1 thing for absolute certainty. This is Ants team.

Another embarring display by KAT in a big moment. What a headcase. Jimmy was right on that one. Ant tho, hes got the DNA. Hopefully over the years he really makes the jump.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

To keep more teams alive longer, thereby giving more fans hope longer, thereby wringing more $$$ from hopeful fans.

You might not like the idea, but the NBA knew exactly what they were doing, and it’s working.

Yep. It puts meaningful games toward the start of the playoffs while also giving the top seeds time to rest their players a bit.

I think it’s a fun little beginning.

[MU82]

Yep. It puts meaningful games toward the start of the playoffs while also giving the top seeds time to rest their players a bit.

I think it’s a fun little beginning.

Yeah, it's growing on me. The atmosphere in Minnesota helped answer Muggsy's question of why. But I'd also be fine if they didn't have a play-in tournament.

I also don't feel bad at all for teams that get eliminated from the play-in tournament. Want to avoid the play-in? Win more regular-season games. Want to advance out of the play-in? Win your play-in game(s). It is 100% in your control. It's like Buzz's team and others that get "snubbed" by the NCAAT committee. Want to make the tourney? Win more!

it also cuts down on teams tanking, which again keeps fans more interested and spending money

Good point.

[wadesworld]

The play in is okay I guess.  But there really should be some sort of rule that you need to be within X number of games of a team to make it necessary.  "Win more games if you want to avoid it" is a nice idea, but the fact of the matter is that if the Wolves had lost last night and the Spurs win tonight, the Wolves would have to win a win or go home game against a team that, over the course of an 82 game season, they were 12 games better than.  They DID win more games.  A LOT more games.

[PGsHeroes32]

Yeah, it's growing on me. The atmosphere in Minnesota helped answer Muggsy's question of why. But I'd also be fine if they didn't have a play-in tournament.

I also don't feel bad at all for teams that get eliminated from the play-in tournament. Want to avoid the play-in? Win more regular-season games. Want to advance out of the play-in? Win your play-in game(s). It is 100% in your control. It's like Buzz's team and others that get "snubbed" by the NCAAT committee. Want to make the tourney? Win more!

Good point.

Yeah I get your reasoning. Completely.

Its just in some cases, like the Wolves this year it does create a pretty iffy scenario. They were 10-12 games ahead of 9/10. So they really did prove themselves, for many months. Lets say they lose to a Paul George and getting healthy veteran clips squad. 1 bad game vs Pelicans/Spurs and done. Not a bad series, a game. Also maybe the wolves have injuries for that game.

Its a bit much.

The 1 seeded Heat in the east had as big of a gap between them and the 10th seed as the Wolves at the 7 did in with the 9/10 in the West. Thats crazy.

Play in worked wonders this year for the East. A bit uneven for the West. But it isnt going anywhere so might as well win your games.

In the end, the Wolves played 1 extra game and got the seed they deserved all along.