Steve Novak opposes library sign addressing systemic racism

[lawdog77]

I think you are pretty close here. I don't see these as racist comments. Just dumb and insensitive. Go figure - a rich white guy thinking blacks haven't had it that bad. He sees things through his green colored glasses.

Where did he say that?

[Billy Hoyle]

Where did he say that?

he didn't but in woke culture, it's acceptable to make up someone's intent and approach and call what they don't agree with "racism." My wife was accused of racism for pressing charges against her Black assailant, along with other insults she endured for doing so.

Novak has a different perspective than the rest of us. He played in a league that is over 70% black for ten years. Maybe he doesn't look around and see racism (whatever that means these days) lurking everywhere due to his personal experience.

[Babybluejeans]

All these beta-cuckservatives triggered by a sign on a library. Lol.

[Hards Alumni]

he didn't but in woke culture, it's acceptable to make up someone's intent and approach and call what they don't agree with "racism." My wife was accused of racism for pressing charges against her Black assailant, along with other insults she endured for doing so.

Novak has a different perspective than the rest of us. He played in a league that is over 70% black for ten years. Maybe he doesn't look around and see racism (whatever that means these days) lurking everywhere due to his personal experience.

Being surrounded by Black people at work doesn't mean you understand their experience.

[lawdog77]

he didn't but in woke culture, it's acceptable to make up someone's intent and approach and call what they don't agree with "racism." My wife was accused of racism for pressing charges against her Black assailant, along with other insults she endured for doing so.

Novak has a different perspective than the rest of us. He played in a league that is over 70% black for ten years. Maybe he doesn't look around and see racism (whatever that means these days) lurking everywhere due to his personal experience.

Systemic racism, specifically. There may be some institutional racism in certain areas of society due to preconceived biases, buts it does not fall under the heading of systemic racism. In the year 2021, there
exist no U.S. federal government or state government statutes or ordinances that
will accommodate systemic racism

[Hards Alumni]

Systemic racism, specifically. There may be some institutional racism in certain areas of society due to preconceived biases, buts it does not fall under the heading of systemic racism. In the year 2021, there
exist no U.S. federal government or state government statutes or ordinances that
will accommodate systemic racism

You're misunderstanding the definition of systemic racism.  Society as a whole is the 'system' here, not government.

[lawdog77]

You're misunderstanding the definition of systemic racism.  Society as a whole is the 'system' here, not government.

Actually, you are. You're thinking of institutional racism.

[Hards Alumni]

Actually, you are. You're thinking of institutional racism.

Incorrect, but you do you.

[Jockey]

Where did he say that?

"There is an offensive sign posted in front of the public library that incorrectly generalizes our community. It says that Whitefish Bay recognizes systemic racism," Novak  wrote to the library's director. "What group has taken the liberty of speaking for our community in such a hateful, damaging and inaccurate way?"


In other words, he is saying it didn't happen here. Maybe pretending it only happens down south. Many rich liberal communities were/are just as bad as cities down south. I used to hang out with a guy who was raised in the south and then moved to Chicago before coming to Wisconsin. I asked him one time where it was easier for a black man to live. Without hesitation, he said down south. The racism he dealt with was more intense and open, but at least you always knew where things stood. Up here, people talked the talk, but didn't always walk the walk. He never knew what to expect .


In other words, Steve is saying it doesn't happen here. My suggestion would be for him to go through housing records of the last 50 - 75 years and he might get a much clearer picture.

[lawdog77]

Incorrect, but you do you.

Nice comeback.

Don't really feel like posting the correct definition of systemic racism, you're free to look it up. People are lazily calling institutional racism  systemic racism.

Actually, here are a few:

https://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Issues/Racism/WGEAPD/Session27/submissions-statements/mdshahid-systemicracism.pdf
Here's another:
"Systemic racism includes the complex array of antiblack practices, the unjustly gained political-economic power of whites, the continuing economic and other resource inequalities along racial lines, and the white racist ideologies and attitudes created to maintain and rationalize white privilege and power.

[vogue65]

Depends on how you define systemic racism.
If you go by NAACP President Derrick Johnson, its "systems and structures that have procedures or processes that disadvantages African Americans."

What are the systems and structures in place in healthcare, legal, housing, etc to disadvantage minorities? Are there racist people in positions of power? Of course, but actual systems and structures have been outlawed. For example, redlining in the housing industry.

Because redlining has been outlawed means there is no redlining, got it.
Because there are black faces in congress means that blacks have political power, got it.
Because black wages are below white wages and therefore contribute less to 401k plans means there is no systemic racism, got it.
Because inner city health care and hospitals are inferior to suburban medical care proves there is no systemic racism, got it.
Thank you, I have been very misinformed.
Mr. Novak is right, everything is wonderful.

[lawdog77]

"There is an offensive sign posted in front of the public library that incorrectly generalizes our community. It says that Whitefish Bay recognizes systemic racism," Novak  wrote to the library's director. "What group has taken the liberty of speaking for our community in such a hateful, damaging and inaccurate way?"


In other words, he is saying it didn't happen here. Maybe pretending it only happens down south. Many rich liberal communities were/are just as bad as cities down south. I used to hang out with a guy who was raised in the south and then moved to Chicago before coming to Wisconsin. I asked him one time where it was easier for a black man to live. Without hesitation, he said down south. The racism he dealt with was more intense and open, but at least you always knew where things stood. Up here, people talked the talk, but didn't always walk the walk. He never knew what to expect .


In other words, Steve is saying it doesn't happen here. My suggestion would be for him to go through housing records of the last 50 - 75 years and he might get a much clearer picture.

Redlining stopped in 1968. There are Federal Laws to protect individuals for this.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Redlining stopped in 1968. There are Federal Laws to protect individuals for this.

Are you really that niaive? 

[Pakuni]

Redlining stopped in 1968. There are Federal Laws to protect individuals for this.

I think you meant to say that redlining became illegal in 1968.

[Hards Alumni]

Are you really that niaive?

He has just demonstrated it several times in the last half hour, so I'm going with yes.

[vogue65]

Where did he say that?

He wants the sign down, that's how he said it.
It's really none of his business.
I see the sign as causing no problem.  Apparently it's a big problem for Mr. N.

[MU82]

Here's another amazing article about white high school kids in Traverse City, Mich. "playfully" buying and selling their Black classmates in "mock slave trades" on social media:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/mock-slave-trade-critical-race-theory/2021/07/23/b4372c36-e9a8-11eb-ba5d-55d3b5ffcaf1_story.html?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F343d6e2%2F60fedcf59d2fda945a1931e5%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F8%2F70%2F60fedcf59d2fda945a1931e5

Many in the town were outragedv when they first heard about it ... until they thought the pushback made them all look like racists. Then the white victimhood came out in full throat -- "It's unfair to do this to us!" -- with many of them blaming (of course) Critical Race Theory ... even though no school in Traverse City teaches that, no school is planning to teach it, and these aggrieved white people almost surely have no idea what CRT is.

Systemic racism? Institutional racism? Societal racism? Just plain ol' racism? Whatevs ... it's effed up. And it's part of mainstream America.

[Hards Alumni]

He wants the sign down, that's how he said it.
It's really none of his business.
I see the sign as causing no problem.  Apparently it's a big problem for Mr. N.

Right, he could have just not said anything.  Instead, he inserted himself into the conversation, and deserves the criticism he is getting.

[Galway Eagle]

Systemic racism, specifically. There may be some institutional racism in certain areas of society due to preconceived biases, buts it does not fall under the heading of systemic racism. In the year 2021, there
exist no U.S. federal government or state government statutes or ordinances that
will accommodate systemic racism

If we're going off your definition, rather than acknowledging that there are lingering effects of the formerly legal systemic racism which also count as systemic racism. Then I would say closing polling locations in African American and minority communities constitutes systemic racism. I would say that school funding being tied to better test scores rather than need is systemic racism at least as it pertains to city schools. I would say that the consistent upheaval of African American communities to build highways to white neighborhoods is systemic racism. I would say that pretty much all of the public meal assistance programs have lead to major health issues in mostly minority communities and the willingness to let special interest groups run those rather than acknowledge we're essentially putting these kids at a medical and physical disadvantage early is systemic racism.

Edit: due to the way schools are being funded I would also say that home value being tied to public school prestige is also systemic racism. Don't fund schools->school does worse->home value drops -> generational wealth becomes harder to accumulate.

[vogue65]

Redlining stopped in 1968. There are Federal Laws to protect individuals for this.

Are you kidding me?
1968 was only a very small step in the right direction.

[vogue65]

If we're going off your definition, rather than acknowledging that there are lingering effects of the formerly legal systemic racism which also count as systemic racism. Then I would say closing polling locations in African American and minority communities constitutes systemic racism. I would say that school funding being tied to better test scores rather than need is systemic racism at least as it pertains to city schools. I would say that the consistent upheaval of African American communities to build highways to white neighborhoods is systemic racism. I would say that pretty much all of the public meal assistance programs have lead to major health issues in mostly minority communities and the willingness to let special interest groups run those rather than acknowledge we're essentially putting these kids at a medical and physical disadvantage early is systemic racism.

And on, and on, and on.
On the job promotions, cigarette advertising, inadequate public transportation, and even police funding and fire house closings.  It's like wack-a-mole.   

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Systemic racism, specifically. There may be some institutional racism in certain areas of society due to preconceived biases, buts it does not fall under the heading of systemic racism. In the year 2021, there
exist no U.S. federal government or state government statutes or ordinances that
will accommodate systemic racism

Most use systemic and institutional interchangeably or more accurately as institutional racism being one type of systemic racism.

No definition, including the one you posted later in this thread, requires there to be statues or ordinances that explicitly discriminate against people of color. Systemic racism refers to practices, not just laws and also includes practices that disproportionally benefit whites or disproportionally harm people of color. For example, a practice could be tied to socio-economic status, not race but because people of lower socio-economic status are disproportionally people of color, it could be an example of systemic racism.

As for redlining, it was outlawed in the 1960s but it's impact is still being felt today. That practice kept families of color from amassing family wealth and also impacted other aspects such as access to quality public education and adequate public services which has persisted into the modern day. This of course is not even taking into account that while it is now illegal, redlining still happens constantly, just not as explicitly.

[vogue65]

Nice comeback.

Don't really feel like posting the correct definition of systemic racism, you're free to look it up. People are lazily calling institutional racism  systemic racism.

Actually, here are a few:

https://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Issues/Racism/WGEAPD/Session27/submissions-statements/mdshahid-systemicracism.pdf
Here's another:
"Systemic racism includes the complex array of antiblack practices, the unjustly gained political-economic power of whites, the continuing economic and other resource inequalities along racial lines, and the white racist ideologies and attitudes created to maintain and rationalize white privilege and power.

So I'm lazy, so what.
As lawyers like to say, a difference without a distinction.
Today most people don't want to be labled as a racist so we argue about semantics.
I can feel comfortable not being a racist while turning a blind eye on institutional/systemic racism.  Just another way to skin a cat.

[lawdog77]

Most use systemic and institutional interchangeably or more accurately as institutional racism being one type of systemic racism.

No definition, including the one you posted later in this thread, requires there to be statues or ordinances that explicitly discriminate against people of color. Systemic racism refers to practices, not just laws and also includes practices that disproportionally benefit whites or disproportionally harm people of color. For example, a practice could be tied to socio-economic status, not race but because people of lower socio-economic status are disproportionally people of color, it could be an example of systemic racism.

As for redlining, it was outlawed in the 1960s but it's impact is still being felt today. That practice kept families of color from amassing family wealth and also impacted other aspects such as access to quality public education and adequate public services which has persisted into the modern day. This of course is not even taking into account that while it is now illegal, redlining still happens constantly, just not as explicitly.

I agree on the redlining destroying generations of potential wealth. I feel there needs to be reparations.

[Billy Hoyle]

Being surrounded by Black people at work doesn't mean you understand their experience.

it gives you a better understanding than people who have never met a Black person, or think they know what every Black person has gone through because they watched Boyz In The Hood or Straight Outta Compton and are the most boisterous claiming everything is racist. Just as I'm able to better understand the Asian immigrant perspective though being married to one.

Because redlining has been outlawed means there is no redlining, got it.
Because there are black faces in congress means that blacks have political power, got it.
Because black wages are below white wages and therefore contribute less to 401k plans means there is no systemic racism, got it.
Because inner city health care and hospitals are inferior to suburban medical care proves there is no systemic racism, got it.
Thank you, I have been very misinformed.
Mr. Novak is right, everything is wonderful.

Asians were subject to every one of those systemic racism laws too, even prohibited from becoming citizens (Filipinos were the only Asians granted citizenship in the '20s because they were a US territory but had their citizenship revoked when they became a commonwealth in 1935). How are they doing? Why do Nigerians have a higher average income than the overall US population?

Yes, our country has a shameful history of discrimination and blocking of opportunities for minority groups for a long time, but why have some groups been able to overcome it while others have languished?