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Author Topic: What's the word on Garcia?  (Read 162238 times)

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #850 on: July 08, 2021, 02:46:49 PM »
Ok, agreed. But my post was about the fact that DII & DIII college sports are a good thing even though there is no money to be made by the schools. Unless you think Loras College is making bank on its swimming team like Alabama football does, I don't get your point.

Loras makes a lot of money on their swimming team. Likely the vast majority of that team isn’t coming to Loras unless they are swimming. Athletics are just admissions strategies these days for most D2 and D3 schools.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #851 on: July 08, 2021, 02:55:52 PM »
People like to focus on the Duke's and Alabama's and USC's of the world (where there needs change) but forget the 10,000+ student athletes that are well served.

Prior to this month, the NCAA failed D1, D2, and D3 athletes equally when it came to NIL
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Shooter McGavin

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #852 on: July 08, 2021, 02:59:07 PM »

I just find it so interesting that people by and large didn't seem to be all that concerned about an unbalanced playing field....until the players got NIL rights.  NOW it's a problem.

Fluff,

I think it more had to do with how/why there was an unbalanced playing field.  Having a reputation as a blue blood and getting better players was felt to be earned.  This led to a snowball effect of more recognition/TV appearances to the more successful programs and was self sustaining.  Everyone at least had an opportunity to hire the right coach in that scenario and start that self sustaining success (example Jay Wright at Villanova or possibly Buzz Williams at MU if he stayed). 

Now the imbalance has the potential to be unfair based solely on university size and wealth of alumni bases.  I think many people are concerned about that type of imbalance rather than well earned advantages of the top teams over time.  I could be wrong but I think that is where the angst is coming from.

lawdog77

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #853 on: July 08, 2021, 03:04:53 PM »
Loras makes a lot of money on their swimming team. Likely the vast majority of that team isn’t coming to Loras unless they are swimming. Athletics are just admissions strategies these days for most D2 and D3 schools.
If there wasn't a swim team at Loras, wouldn't those admission spots would be filled by regular students? Their acceptance rate isn't 100%

WhiteTrash

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #854 on: July 08, 2021, 03:06:01 PM »
Loras makes a lot of money on their swimming team. Likely the vast majority of that team isn’t coming to Loras unless they are swimming. Athletics are just admissions strategies these days for most D2 and D3 schools.
Admission strategies just like a business school, nursing program or economics degree or maybe a nice dorm. I guess we're saying the entire higher education system is a money making enterprise? In a perfect world college would be free and professors and administrators would donate their time? Then schools could rid themselves of sports, arts, music, nice campuses, etc.

So does Marquette have an art museum because they make 'lots' of money off it? Does MU have club rugby because they make money off it? It's all about creating a great college experience. I think that is a good thing. The other option, if you don't want to feed into college capitalism, is on-line college. Many choose that way.

StillAWarrior

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #855 on: July 08, 2021, 03:20:02 PM »
Loras makes a lot of money on their swimming team. Likely the vast majority of that team isn’t coming to Loras unless they are swimming. Athletics are just admissions strategies these days for most D2 and D3 schools.

This is true. At those levels, the coaches are recruiting for the school to bring in tuition-paying students and you often see big rosters. Mount Union has 137 players on its football roster. That's more than 6% of their student body. That's a lot of tuition money.
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romey

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #856 on: July 08, 2021, 03:46:09 PM »
Fluff,

I think it more had to do with how/why there was an unbalanced playing field.  Having a reputation as a blue blood and getting better players was felt to be earned.  This led to a snowball effect of more recognition/TV appearances to the more successful programs and was self sustaining.  Everyone at least had an opportunity to hire the right coach in that scenario and start that self sustaining success (example Jay Wright at Villanova or possibly Buzz Williams at MU if he stayed). 

Now the imbalance has the potential to be unfair based solely on university size and wealth of alumni bases.  I think many people are concerned about that type of imbalance rather than well earned advantages of the top teams over time.  I could be wrong but I think that is where the angst is coming from.

Excellent points.

I haven't spent the time to research all the ins and outs of NIL. but I consider myself not unlike the vast majority of college sports fans.  So, here's a perhaps simplistic question, but what's to stop Warren Buffet (Nebraska) or Phil Knight (Oregon) or any other billionaire, from essentially buying the best basketball team in the nation.  If Garcia is going to "make $1mm" at UNC, for $20mm Oregon could field a pretty nice hoops team and Nike would merely have to shell out pocket change.  I'm sure they have enough attorneys willing to figure out how to do it within the "rules or guidelines" of NIL.

There is probably a lot I'm missing, but I promise you, this is what a lot of casual fans are wondering.

TallTitan34

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #857 on: July 08, 2021, 03:48:22 PM »
Excellent points.

I haven't spent the time to research all the ins and outs of NIL. but I consider myself not unlike the vast majority of college sports fans.  So, here's a perhaps simplistic question, but what's to stop Warren Buffet (Nebraska) or Phil Knight (Oregon) or any other billionaire, from essentially buying the best basketball team in the nation.  If Garcia is going to "make $1mm" at UNC, for $20mm Oregon could field a pretty nice hoops team and Nike would merely have to shell out pocket change.  I'm sure they have enough attorneys willing to figure out how to do it within the "rules or guidelines" of NIL.

There is probably a lot I'm missing, but I promise you, this is what a lot of casual fans are wondering.

Thirteen one-and-done players with endorsement distractions doesn't seem like a great strategy.

Even teams that can pay are going to have to compete with other teams that can pay.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 03:51:52 PM by TallTitan34 »

mileskishnish72

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #858 on: July 08, 2021, 04:28:53 PM »
Meh, appreciate the good games he gave us and the deficiencies as well. UNC might be a good landing spot for him. Good luck. Next!

MarquetteMike1977

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #859 on: July 08, 2021, 05:05:42 PM »
Yeah, a Cockburn wood feel pretty good 'bout now, hey?

Ice Cream  You Scream We all Scream for Cockburn.
But seriously that said hope Marquette lands Kofi.

Uncle Rico

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #860 on: July 08, 2021, 05:11:43 PM »
Ice Cream  You Scream We all Scream for Cockburn.
But seriously that said hope Marquette lands Kofi.

He ain’t leaving Illinois for Marquette
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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #861 on: July 08, 2021, 05:15:24 PM »
JFL: Your table is ready.

Jockey

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #862 on: July 08, 2021, 05:29:21 PM »
Losers see NIL as a threat
Winners see NIL as an opportunity

I'm pretty sure given his comments on the Portal that Shaka is in the winning camp.

Evolve people, it's good for you.


Amen!!!

Some people are bothered by change. Any change. I think NIL will help MU a lot more than most schools.

Jockey

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #863 on: July 08, 2021, 05:35:25 PM »
Excellent points.

I haven't spent the time to research all the ins and outs of NIL. but I consider myself not unlike the vast majority of college sports fans.  So, here's a perhaps simplistic question, but what's to stop Warren Buffet (Nebraska) or Phil Knight (Oregon) or any other billionaire, from essentially buying the best basketball team in the nation.  If Garcia is going to "make $1mm" at UNC, for $20mm Oregon could field a pretty nice hoops team and Nike would merely have to shell out pocket change.  I'm sure they have enough attorneys willing to figure out how to do it within the "rules or guidelines" of NIL.

There is probably a lot I'm missing, but I promise you, this is what a lot of casual fans are wondering.


Oregon isn't the only school that gets Nike money.

The business people at Nike are a lot smarter than to do something like you suggested. NIL also helps businesses giving out the money. What would be the benefit of giving $20 mil to Oregon? A team on the West Coast that few people outside of PAC-10 fans ever see. How would doing this help Nike's bottom line?

Its DJOver

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #864 on: July 08, 2021, 05:40:01 PM »

Oregon isn't the only school that gets Nike money.

The business people at Nike are a lot smarter than to do something like you suggested. NIL also helps businesses giving out the money. What would be the benefit of giving $20 mil to Oregon? A team on the West Coast that few people outside of PAC-10 fans ever see. How would doing this help Nike's bottom line?

Would it have to? Would it hurt it?  Not gonna lie, if I had a net worth north of 50 bil, I wouldn't think twice about throwing 50 mil per season in to see MU be an elite program, even if it didn't help my company. 

I think this entire scenario is unlikely, because billionaires don't think like that (that's why they're billionaires), but 20 mil is literally chump change to Knight.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #865 on: July 08, 2021, 05:45:08 PM »
Fluff,

I think it more had to do with how/why there was an unbalanced playing field.  Having a reputation as a blue blood and getting better players was felt to be earned.  This led to a snowball effect of more recognition/TV appearances to the more successful programs and was self sustaining.  Everyone at least had an opportunity to hire the right coach in that scenario and start that self sustaining success (example Jay Wright at Villanova or possibly Buzz Williams at MU if he stayed). 

Now the imbalance has the potential to be unfair based solely on university size and wealth of alumni bases.  I think many people are concerned about that type of imbalance rather than well earned advantages of the top teams over time.  I could be wrong but I think that is where the angst is coming from.

However you want to justify it in your mind is fine with me.  Interesting that the “earned advantage” applies to the coach but not the players.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 05:47:49 PM by Fluffy Blue Monster »
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The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #866 on: July 08, 2021, 05:46:59 PM »
If there wasn't a swim team at Loras, wouldn't those admission spots would be filled by regular students? Their acceptance rate isn't 100%

No likely not. Schools still have some minimum standard so they won’t just take anyone. And likely are well short of capacity.
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Jockey

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #867 on: July 08, 2021, 05:47:59 PM »
Would it have to? Would it hurt it?  Not gonna lie, if I had a net worth north of 50 bil, I wouldn't think twice about throwing 50 mil per season in to see MU be an elite program, even if it didn't help my company. 

I think this entire scenario is unlikely, because billionaires don't think like that (that's why they're billionaires), but 20 mil is literally chump change to Knight.


I agree generally you are right with what you say. But it's not just Oregon. And the meter isn't starting at $0. Nike spends over $6 BILLION  annually on endorsements and sponsorships, etc. So while $20 mil is pocket change to Nike, when you consider all of their schools and all of the players at those schools, you start talking about real money.

Its DJOver

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #868 on: July 08, 2021, 05:54:49 PM »

I agree generally you are right with what you say. But it's not just Oregon. And the meter isn't starting at $0. Nike spends over $6 BILLION  annually on endorsements and sponsorships, etc. So while $20 mil is pocket change to Nike, when you consider all of their schools and all of the players at those schools, you start talking about real money.

Fair.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of NIL, and think it's long overdue, but at the same time, I can see flaws in the newly introduced system.  I think, like just about everything, there's a lot more grey in here than black & white, and it's possible to both want to see the athletes get their fair share, but also see how the system can be exploited (not that the current one isn't).

Given how much the NCAA fought this initially, I would imagine that they will fight every year to "refine" it so that they continue to get as large of a chunk of the pie as possible.  My hope is that an appropriate balance can be achieved.  What that balance is remains TBD.

Jockey

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #869 on: July 08, 2021, 06:04:26 PM »
Fair.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of NIL, and think it's long overdue, but at the same time, I can see flaws in the newly introduced system.  I think, like just about everything, there's a lot more grey in here than black & white, and it's possible to both want to see the athletes get their fair share, but also see how the system can be exploited (not that the current one isn't).

Given how much the NCAA fought this initially, I would imagine that they will fight every year to "refine" it so that they continue to get as large of a chunk of the pie as possible.  My hope is that an appropriate balance can be achieved.  What that balance is remains TBD.

Yeah, I think you're right that there are going to be many bumps in the road. They'll need to be dealt with, and hopefully a solid framework will evolve. But it could be a bit rocky for a couple years.

One thing we can be sure of is that there will be hustlers crawling out of the woodwork trying to take advantage of both athletes and schools.

4everwarriors

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #870 on: July 08, 2021, 06:14:37 PM »

Amen!!!

Some people are bothered by change. Any change. I think NIL will help MU a lot more than most schools.



Doubt it. I think we lose that battle 10 out of 10 times to larger public universities, hey?
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Jockey

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #871 on: July 08, 2021, 06:17:30 PM »


Doubt it. I think we lose that battle 10 out of 10 times to larger public universities, hey?

Why? Because of more boosters?

4everwarriors

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #872 on: July 08, 2021, 06:25:29 PM »
As fans we're looking at MU thru blue and gold glasses. In reality, on a national stage we're just another team.
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Jockey

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #873 on: July 08, 2021, 06:40:27 PM »
As fans we're looking at MU thru blue and gold glasses. In reality, on a national stage we're just another team.

I don't disagree, but won't the majority of licensing money be based locally rather than nationally?

My reasoning is that being in a fairly large city will benefit MU (if the team is successful, of course). Lots and lots of smallish businesses with smaller advertising budgets.

JWags85

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #874 on: July 08, 2021, 06:41:56 PM »
As fans we're looking at MU thru blue and gold glasses. In reality, on a national stage we're just another team.

That’s simply not true. MU may not be a national title contender for any number of reasons.  But no school with MU’s budget, arena/NBA ties, and attendance is “just another team”. 

Disappointing as the last decade has been, MU as a program, financially and from a business of basketball, is closer to Duke than it is to SLU or Dayton or Loyola.

 

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