Coach K retiring after this season

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Kinda missed the point completely but okay.

I was not advocating for Synder to be a candidate, or get the job (although Duke would 100% take him and overlook his ...transgressions... from 15 years ago considering his resume since) I even said that he wouldn't want it.  But, a significant portion of people here, when looking at the K coaching tree, are pretty much blinded by the one name that patrolled our sideline.  There are better options out there than Scheyer IMO, but there's no way that K wasn't going to be able to name who he wanted, and I guess Jon is that guy.

Duke wouldn’t take Snyder right now. They are hiring the guy they want.

[Its DJOver]

Duke wouldn’t take Snyder right now. They are hiring the guy they want.

Duke are hiring the guy K wants.  If K wanted Snyder and Snyder wanted K's (now former job), it would have happened.

[brewcity77]

But, a significant portion of people here, when looking at the K coaching tree, are pretty much blinded by the one name that patrolled our sideline.

I disagree with this. Yes, Snyder found success. Brey did as well, but they are the minority.

Tommy Amaker had decidedly mediocre results, going to 1 NCAA tournament in 10 high major seasons before finding his level at Harvard, where he's been good but not great. Johnny Dawkins had 1 bid in 8 years at Stanford before going to 1 in 5 at UCF. He's been a bad coach. Similar to Chris Collins, who did get Northwestern a NCAA bid in year 4 but followed it with 4 straight losing seasons. Bobby Hurley's success at Buffalo is starting to look like more a product of Nate Oats on the sideline as Hurley has just 2 bids in 6 years at ASU, continually underachieving projections.

Honestly, Wojo is one of the most successful K products. All told, K assistants have a .539 winning percentage (a number Wojo has bested) and 28 NCAA wins in 147 combined seasons. What should've been 3 NCAA bids in 7 seasons is better than the average K assistant. Considering Wojo is one of the best of a bad lot, the only way anyone here is blinded is if they somehow believe Wojo was blindingly brilliant, because K's other proteges are generally even worse.

[Its DJOver]

I disagree with this. Yes, Snyder found success. Brey did as well, but they are the minority.

So it sounds like you agree with me that there are better options out there than Scheyer from the K coaching tree, but Scheyer is clearly the guy K wants, which is why he has the job.

Every coaching tree is going to have good and bad "branches".  A tree as extensive as K's is, is naturally going to have more misses than hits, as programs are more likely to take a chance on his assistants, hoping that the guy they chose is "the next K". 

[JWags85]

I disagree with this. Yes, Snyder found success. Brey did as well, but they are the minority.

Chalking up Snyder’s success to Coach K is a stretch in my opinion.  He was decent at Mizzou. Had one good year in the tourney, never finished better than T-5 in conference, and was trending down hard before he flamed out.  He had almost a decade in the coaching wilderness including time under Bud, Doug Collins, and the best European coach of all time (Messina) in Moscow.  That’s what’s turned him into a great NBA coach, not spending time under someone who has not experience with the NBA game as a coach 20+ years ago. 

If Stan gets canned at LMU and goes to AC in the G League and NBA benches before popping up and being a really successful coach of the Hornets in 2030. I won’t say it’s a product of what he learned and groomed under Wojo

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So it sounds like you agree with me that there are better options out there than Scheyer from the K coaching tree, but Scheyer is clearly the guy K wants, which is why he has the job.

Every coaching tree is going to have good and bad "branches".  A tree as extensive as K's is, is naturally going to have more misses than hits, as programs are more likely to take a chance on his assistants, hoping that the guy they chose is "the next K". 

We have no idea if they are better options.

[rocket surgeon]

Call me cynical, but I think Coach K picked a bad replacement on purpose.

 
  +1     the first thing that came to mind for me as well


  goose?  doc? 

[Its DJOver]

We have no idea if they are better options.

   

[Herman Cain]

Good move for K . The new world of having to re-recruit is for young guys with energy .

Roy and K both got out while the gettin was good.

[The Lens]

What Wags said on Quinn.  He went to Pop U among other places for his Hoops PhD.

I don’t think K picked a bad successor on purpose, I just think he felt entitled to pick his successor and JS was the cleanest of his true “tree”.

[brewcity77]

Chalking up Snyder’s success to Coach K is a stretch in my opinion.  He was decent at Mizzou. Had one good year in the tourney, never finished better than T-5 in conference, and was trending down hard before he flamed out.  He had almost a decade in the coaching wilderness including time under Bud, Doug Collins, and the best European coach of all time (Messina) in Moscow.  That’s what’s turned him into a great NBA coach, not spending time under someone who has not experience with the NBA game as a coach 20+ years ago. 

If Stan gets canned at LMU and goes to AC in the G League and NBA benches before popping up and being a really successful coach of the Hornets in 2030. I won’t say it’s a product of what he learned and groomed under Wojo

Agreed. K has a poor coaching tree. Aside from Brey, who has left K's side and gone on to sustained success? No one. After more than 4 decades in the game, you'd think someone would've at least lucked into a solid career, but there's next to nothing. The only reason Scheyer is getting this job is because he hasn't been anywhere to get exposed yet the way Wojo, Dawkins, Collins, and others have.

[MU82]

Agreed. K has a poor coaching tree. Aside from Brey, who has left K's side and gone on to sustained success? No one. After more than 4 decades in the game, you'd think someone would've at least lucked into a solid career, but there's next to nothing. The only reason Scheyer is getting this job is because he hasn't been anywhere to get exposed yet the way Wojo, Dawkins, Collins, and others have.

Agree with all of this, including your conclusion ... and yet that STILL doesn’t automatically mean Scheyer will fail, as so many believe.

Maybe he’ll be the next Brey.

Or maybe he WILL be awful.

The beautiful thing is we actually will get to see!

[dgies9156]

What Duke did with Coach Scheyer is done throughout college basketball.

When Dean Smith retired, Bill Guthridge, his long-time and trusted assistant took over. Guthridge lasted a few years until it became apparent he was not going to sustain long-term success at UNC.

When Al McGuire retired, Hank Raymonds, his long-time assistant took over. It was an unmitigated disaster highlighted by a horrible loss to Miami of Ohio, an inability to recruit and the beginning of a slow slide into mediocrity.

When Bo Ryan retired, UW-Platteville's finest, Greg Gard took over. We'll see.

Everyone of these cases were situations where a nationwide search could have found a better, more qualified candidate to become head coach. Our situation was especially galling because we were defending national champions and probably could have had anyone not named Dean Smith or Bobby Knight at the time. But schools are loyal, sometimes to a fault.

[brewcity77]

Agree with all of this, including your conclusion ... and yet that STILL doesn’t automatically mean Scheyer will fail, as so many believe.

Maybe he’ll be the next Brey.

Or maybe he WILL be awful.

The beautiful thing is we actually will get to see!

Isn't the whole point of summer on a basketball message board to talk recruiting, TBT, and projections of hypothetical futures? Talking about why Jon Scheyer will suck is pretty much why we log on this time of year.

[JPG]

The program is not best served by allowing Coach K to pick his own successor, as he will want one of his own.

IMO, they should look beyond the program ( but they probably won’t)......seldom works out  where a legend is followed from within . Much bigger selection universe out there to choose from. Better odds.

Existing Duke coaching tree mediocre.

[avid1010]

Call me cynical, but I think Coach K picked a bad replacement on purpose.

I think its narcissism more than anything, which I have always felt he passed along to some of his players as well.  He couldn't watch another coach without ties to him  do well at his school. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

 

We have no idea if Snyder would be a good coach returning to college.  We have no idea if that was an even an option considered by Duke OR by Snyder.

Put it this way, if Snyder was interested, they STILL would have picked Scheyer. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The program is not best served by allowing Coach K to pick his own successor, as he will want one of his own.

IMO, they should look beyond the program ( but they probably won’t)......seldom works out  where a legend is followed from within . Much bigger selection universe out there to choose from. Better odds.

Existing Duke coaching tree mediocre.

Who do you think would be interested in the Duke job?  We go through this whenever there is a blue blood opening.  Proven, top-level coaches rarely leave for other jobs.  The last one was....Roy Williams?  The idea that Duke would have their pick of top level coaches just isn't accurate IMO.

[Lennys Tap]

I think its narcissism more than anything, which I have always felt he passed along to some of his players as well.  He couldn't watch another coach without ties to him  do well at his school.

Agree. The last thing a legend with a K size ego wants is an outsider coming in and outdoing him. Pretty unlikely given K’s accomplishments but it happened to ole Roy at Kansas.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Agree. The last thing a legend with a K size ego wants is an outsider coming in and outdoing him. Pretty unlikely given K’s accomplishments but it happened to ole Roy at Kansas.

Coach K is plenty egotistical and narcissistic.  But a retiring, successful coach lobbying for his assistant is hardly new.  John Wooden, Dean Smith, Al McGuire, Dick Bennett, Bo Ryan, etc. all did the same thing.

I just think the idea that he intentionally chose a bad candidate because he didn't want someone to overshadow his accomplishments is silly.  Dean Smith recruited Roy Williams to UNC after Doherty failed because having a former assistant succeed after him enhanced his legacy.

Do you think Jud Heathcote was upset that Tom Izzo accomplished more than he did?  Or was he proud that his protege climbed higher?  How about Rollie Massamino and Jay Wright?  My guess is the pride they had in their former assistant's accomplishments was enormous.

[Silkk the Shaka]

He's a bit of a career journeyman, and I doubt that he'd give up his NBA gig, but it sure seems convenient that the folks here that think that Coach K has a less than stellar coaching tree are omitting the coach of the team with the best record in the NBA this season...  Just saying.   

Snyder is actually a great example, he bounced around and got his ass handed to him multiple times, learned from failure and broad experience. I think Wojo could use a little of that before trying again at a major gig (as could almost anyone).

[brewcity77]

Snyder is actually a great example, he bounced around and got his ass handed to him multiple times, learned from failure and broad experience. I think Wojo could use a little of that before trying again at a major gig (as could almost anyone).

Wojo getting some time on NBA benches as an assistant could make him an appealing option for Duke in 4-5 years when I imagine they'll pull the plug on Scheyer.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Wojo getting some time on NBA benches as an assistant could make him an appealing option for Duke in 4-5 years when I imagine they'll pull the plug on Scheyer.

Yes

[Its DJOver]

We have no idea if Snyder would be a good coach returning to college.  We have no idea if that was an even an option considered by Duke OR by Snyder.

Put it this way, if Snyder was interested, they STILL would have picked Scheyer.

wE hAvE nO iDEa wHaT tHeY wOuLD dO.

K is the most powerful person on that campus.  Even after he leaves his presence will loom over the University and more importantly the basketball program (see Gtown the last 20 years post Big John). If K wanted Snyder, the University would have at least made a run at him.  Again, I doubt he would give up his NBA gig, but the point remains that K says jump and the University says how high.  Scheyer is the coach because K wants it.  If the University wanted it as well (personally doubt it) then that's just a happy coincidence for the University.

[MU82]

Isn't the whole point of summer on a basketball message board to talk recruiting, TBT, and projections of hypothetical futures? Talking about why Jon Scheyer will suck is pretty much why we log on this time of year.

Yessir, that's true.

I once saw Scheyer score 49 at Glenbrook North. He woulda had 50+ ... but he missed a dunk. Shoulda called Ners for advice before the game.