2021-2022 NFL Season

[Pakuni]

Wasn't the criticism on Mahomes that the TT system would hamstring his performance in the NFL? I... uh... don't think that happened.

To be honest, I think you're trying to brute force a correlation into a causation here. Some quarterbacks from elite programs in college struggle in the NFL. Some quarterbacks from small programs in college excel in the NFL. This entire line of argument strikes me as the search for some kind of grand truth that probably doesn't exist. The probable reality is that NFL QB success is complicated, involves a ton of variables, and is really hard to get right. If it weren't there wouldn't be so many busts and the stakes associated with making the decisions on QB wouldn't be franchise-defining.

aka, Don't helmet scout.

[Jockey]

aka, Don't helmet scout.

Bingo.

Despite my criticisms of QBs from Alabama or OSU and issues they face on the learning curve, I was the one who took flak for saying that, to me, Mac Jones was the obvious choice for the 2nd QB to be drafted.

[Jockey]

Wasn't the criticism on Mahomes that the TT system would hamstring his performance in the NFL? I... uh... don't think that happened.

To be honest, I think you're trying to brute force a correlation into a causation here. Some quarterbacks from elite programs in college struggle in the NFL. Some quarterbacks from small programs in college excel in the NFL. This entire line of argument strikes me as the search for some kind of grand truth that probably doesn't exist. The probable reality is that NFL QB success is complicated, involves a ton of variables, and is really hard to get right. If it weren't there wouldn't be so many busts and the stakes associated with making the decisions on QB wouldn't be franchise-defining.

You are absolutely right. There is no grand truth. But there are factors that lead to a better truth and I just pointed out one of them. I guess my question should have been whether it is a major or a minor factor.

[Uncle Rico]

Speaking of QB classes, this upcoming draft doesn’t have any surefire stars.  Wonder how many go in the first round and wonder how many play a decade

[Pakuni]

Speaking of QB classes, this upcoming draft doesn’t have any surefire stars.  Wonder how many go in the first round and wonder how many play a decade

I think we may see a bunch (4-5) still go in the first, but none in the top 10. There are some mid-table teams that need a QB of the future (Steelers, Broncos, WFT), and we could see some of the bad teams, like the Texans, trade back into the end of the first to get a QB and that 5th year option.
But boy, are you right. No great options for QB-needy teams this year.

[Uncle Rico]

I think we may see a bunch (4-5) still go in the first, but none in the top 10. There are some mid-table teams that need a QB of the future (Steelers, Broncos, WFT), and we could see some of the bad teams, like the Texans, trade back into the end of the first to get a QB and that 5th year option.
But boy, are you right. No great options for QB-needy teams this year.

I like watching Matt Corral but he looks like a guy that has week 3 IR written all over him the way plays.

I’m more bullish on Kenny Pickett than earlier in the year but he feels like a Ryan Tannehill ceiling-type.

The rest are projects imo

[MU82]

Panthers are supposedly high on Pickett.

[Herman Cain]

I agree with what you say. My point, though, was that when the guys from schools that have AA receivers every year get to the NFL, the completion window is an issue for them. They are used to throwing the ball to wide open guys - something they don't see nearly as often in the NFL. It's the old axiom about Rodgers - he throws guys open. To take it further, in the NFL, they need to be able to read the defense and make quick looks to a 2nd or 3rd guy.

That was something Trubisky never learned (or perhaps Nagy couldn't teach). So, I certainly think these guys can be good, but it is an added dimension for them in the NFL. Every Alabama or OSU QB that gets to the pros was already a top prospect, so the talent is there.

It's the mental part that gets them. Rodgers is the best because besides talent, he has the mental game as well. He knows where the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th receivers are. And if they aren't? We've all seen him go off at guys during the game.

Agee? Disagree?

I agree with this analysis.

[Jockey]

I must have missed it. When did offense die in the NFL?

[DegenerateDish]

Seahawks/Rams is putting me to sleep. Luckily WFT/Philly has been somewhat interesting.

[GB Warrior]

I must have missed it. When did offense die in the NFL?

I was told decent QBs were not that hard to find

[jesmu84]

https://twitter.com/Ihartitz/status/1473378589794000908?t=Jj8AJgfnz0qMzMD28w0DjQ&s=19

[MU82]

This is the perfect season to have a non-QB win MVP.

Two really good candidates: Cooper Kupp, who with 3 games still to play could put up numbers rivaling the all-time great WRs; and Jonathan Taylor, who has 400+ more yards than the No. 2 rusher and who literally has carried a mediocre team into contention.

Or maybe even a defensive player like Trevon Diggs? I haven't seen Dallas play enough to know if he's been a great all-around DB, but those INTs do leap off the stat sheet.

[GB Warrior]

This is the perfect season to have a non-QB win MVP.

Two really good candidates: Cooper Kupp, who with 3 games still to play could put up numbers rivaling the all-time great WRs; and Jonathan Taylor, who has 400+ more yards than the No. 2 rusher and who literally has carried a mediocre team into contention.

Or maybe even a defensive player like Trevon Diggs? I haven't seen Dallas play enough to know if he's been a great all-around DB, but those INTs do leap off the stat sheet.

If you're going to give it to a defensive player, Micah Parsons deserves consideration at the top of the list. He's going to win Defensive ROY,  is probably the favorite to win DPOY. He's transformed that entire unit.

I think it's Brady, Rodgers and Taylor in no particular order. In the spirit of the award, Colts would not be near contention without him. But we also got a glimpse of the Packers without Rodgers, who had subsequently gone on a massive tear.

Brady and Rodgers have both had one-game clunkers- the difference is Rodgers came week 1 and not in the home stretch with a 1 seed in the balance.

[Pakuni]

This is the perfect season to have a non-QB win MVP.

Two really good candidates: Cooper Kupp, who with 3 games still to play could put up numbers rivaling the all-time great WRs; and Jonathan Taylor, who has 400+ more yards than the No. 2 rusher and who literally has carried a mediocre team into contention.

Or maybe even a defensive player like Trevon Diggs? I haven't seen Dallas play enough to know if he's been a great all-around DB, but those INTs do leap off the stat sheet.

How much credence are we giving records with an extra game this year?

Diggs is a weird case. As you said, his INT stats pop. But he's also given up a ton of yards and big plays (he's allowed 51 catches for 899 yards, or 17.6 ypc ... yikes).

[MU82]

How much credence are we giving records with an extra game this year?

Diggs is a weird case. As you said, his INT stats pop. But he's also given up a ton of yards and big plays (he's allowed 51 catches for 899 yards, or 17.6 ypc ... yikes).

Over time, every sport makes its season longer; the NFL isn't done yet -- 18 games will happen eventually.

I'm not an asterisk guy, not in baseball, football, college hoops, any of 'em. The schedule length is the schedule length.

It's obviously OK to mention that "so-and-so did that in a 16-game season," but if a record is broken in Week 17 it's still a record and still deserves plaudits IMHO. Hardly anybody talks about things that happened in the old 14-game schedule any more, and 25 years from now, nobody will care if a record was set in a 17-game season vs. 16.

And anyway, Kupp's and Taylor's numbers will be MVP-consideration-worthy after 16 games.

Thanks for expanding on Diggs' stats. As I said, I really haven't seen the Cowboys much; they annihilated the Panthers early -- were the first to expose Darnold -- and Diggs was very good in that game. But yes, those numbers are not MVP-worthy.

If you're going to give it to a defensive player, Micah Parsons deserves consideration at the top of the list. He's going to win Defensive ROY,  is probably the favorite to win DPOY. He's transformed that entire unit.

I think it's Brady, Rodgers and Taylor in no particular order. In the spirit of the award, Colts would not be near contention without him. But we also got a glimpse of the Packers without Rodgers, who had subsequently gone on a massive tear.

Brady and Rodgers have both had one-game clunkers- the difference is Rodgers came week 1 and not in the home stretch with a 1 seed in the balance.

Good points about Parsons and Rodgers. Again, I haven't seen much except highlights on Parsons, but all the experts are raving about him. I'd also give the edge to Rodgers over Brady if it has to be a QB ... and it probably will be ... though I hope not!

[PGsHeroes32]

This is the perfect season to have a non-QB win MVP.

Two really good candidates: Cooper Kupp, who with 3 games still to play could put up numbers rivaling the all-time great WRs; and Jonathan Taylor, who has 400+ more yards than the No. 2 rusher and who literally has carried a mediocre team into contention.

Or maybe even a defensive player like Trevon Diggs? I haven't seen Dallas play enough to know if he's been a great all-around DB, but those INTs do leap off the stat sheet.

As mentioned a bit already

Diggs is overrated as all hell. Not actually a great corner

[forgetful]

This is the perfect season to have a non-QB win MVP.

Two really good candidates: Cooper Kupp, who with 3 games still to play could put up numbers rivaling the all-time great WRs; and Jonathan Taylor, who has 400+ more yards than the No. 2 rusher and who literally has carried a mediocre team into contention.

Or maybe even a defensive player like Trevon Diggs? I haven't seen Dallas play enough to know if he's been a great all-around DB, but those INTs do leap off the stat sheet.

Personally I think it would be a disservice to the award to give it to a QB right now.

If the season ended today, Rodgers would have the highest QBR (67.3) and highest RTG (110.4). Brady would be 4th in QBR (64.1) and 8th in RTG (100.4). You could make a strong argument that Rodgers is the best QB then, but Rodgers's numbers would have ranked him tied for 7th (QBR) and 3rd (RTG) last year, so overall weak QB year.

Taylor will top Henry from last year in rushing TDs, and will likely top Henry from last year in total yards from scrimmage.

Kupp already would be the #1 receiver last year. Might break the all time record (likely will) for receiving yards, and may actually do it in 16 games.

I think that says Kupp is the MVP, strong argument for Taylor, but a weak argument for a QB.

[DegenerateDish]

I wouldn’t argue with any of the MVP talk mentioned this morning. I just think the QB of the NFC 1 seed is going to win it, just because that’s the mentality of the voters.

The Kupp/Taylor OPOY race is more interesting to me.

[MU82]

Personally I think it would be a disservice to the award to give it to a QB right now.

If the season ended today, Rodgers would have the highest QBR (67.3) and highest RTG (110.4). Brady would be 4th in QBR (64.1) and 8th in RTG (100.4). You could make a strong argument that Rodgers is the best QB then, but Rodgers's numbers would have ranked him tied for 7th (QBR) and 3rd (RTG) last year, so overall weak QB year.

Taylor will top Henry from last year in rushing TDs, and will likely top Henry from last year in total yards from scrimmage.

Kupp already would be the #1 receiver last year. Might break the all time record (likely will) for receiving yards, and may actually do it in 16 games.

I think that says Kupp is the MVP, strong argument for Taylor, but a weak argument for a QB.

Agree about all of this ... but as Dish says, I'm not sure the voters will agree with us.

This is the perfect year for a non-QB MVP. It's been 9 years since Peterson won it, and he's the only non-QB to have won it in the last 15 years. We're due!

[Jockey]

I wouldn’t argue with any of the MVP talk mentioned this morning. I just think the QB of the NFC 1 seed is going to win it, just because that’s the mentality of the voters.

The Kupp/Taylor OPOY race is more interesting to me.

I think you are right. The QB from one of the top teams is always going to win it.

That is why we have the OPOY award - to recognize the top non-QB (only 8 QBs have won in the last 25 years).

[Hards Alumni]

Hate to tell you this guys, but no WR is ever winning the MVP unless he has numbers that destroy any previous season on record.

Depending on how the playoffs shake out, the MVP is Rodgers' to lose.

[cheebs09]

Hate to tell you this guys, but no WR is ever winning the MVP unless he has numbers that destroy any previous season on record.

Depending on how the playoffs shake out, the MVP is Rodgers' to lose.

It’s voted on before the playoffs right?

[Hards Alumni]

It’s voted on before the playoffs right?

Aha, I did not know that, but looked into it, and you are correct.

[DegenerateDish]

I honestly don't know who I'd vote for between Kupp and Taylor for OPOY. Both dudes have been awesome and clutch. I feel like I'd lean Taylor, but I love both their seasons. Really hard decision for me.