Theo John transferring?

[MUCam]

conjecture, but ok. Good on ya FBM.

Wait. You're giving him grief for conjecture after definitively stating Theo will not get paid to play basketball?

By golly, Scoop is precious.

[hairy worthen]

And here's what those numbers are:
Player Efficiency Rating: 16.6 (career high)
True Shooting %: .623 (career high)
eFG%: .583 (second to his soph season, but above his career average)
Offensive Win Shares: 1.2 (career high)
Defensive Win Shares: 1.0 (below soph year, but above career average)

To suggest Theo showed "not much improvement at all" and then claim the numbers support that is nuts.

Well something or someone is nuts.

Those numbers are meaningless and how do they compare across all his years. Also how do they compare to other players. The poster claimed Theo was one of the most improved at MU and I am calling BS.  Looks like you really did some digging to find numbers to support your argument. The numbers I see are how many points per game did he score, rebounds, turnovers, blocks. From year 1 to year 4 not a hell of a lot of improvement. Not as much as what a typical starting player would improve from Freshmen to Senior.

[jesmu84]

Well something or someone is nuts.

Those numbers are meaningless and how do they compare across all his years. Also how do they compare to other players. The poster claimed Theo was one of the most improved at MU and I am calling BS.  Looks like you really did some digging to find numbers to support your argument. The numbers I see are how many points per game did he score, rebounds, turnovers, blocks. From year 1 to year 4 not a hell of a lot of improvement. Not as much as what a typical starting player would improve from Freshmen to Senior.

Because you don't understand them, the numbers are meaningless?

[hairy worthen]

Because you don't understand them, the numbers are meaningless?

No. There is no context to prior years or other starting players improvements over 4 years.

[connie]

Why?

For all there is to admire about Theo I believe that there are options with better speed, instinct, passing and shooting for him to be more than a "minutes here or there" guy for a high level program. His defensive presence was countered by silly fouls, a lack of any real offensive skill set, and a lack of feel that often seemed to leave him a step behind and out of position.  On a team where there is more talent, balance and a better strategy of use he may be just what some team is looking for, and I hope that is true--I just don't see it.

[jesmu84]

No. There is no context to prior years or other starting players improvements over 4 years.

I thought he gave relationship to prior stats in the parentheses

[Big Papi]

I think Theo will make a big impact anywhere.  Love his shot blocking and baby hook shot and his free throw shooting form shows he can knock down a mid range shot.  I think some of Theo's limitations were more Wojo's limitations as a coach then Theo.

[tower912]

They were running sets designed to get Theo the ball on the block in 20-21.  His offensive skill set is fine.    To me, his weakness was always rebounding.   Not a great offensive rebounder.   Defensively, either the opponents were running sets designed to keep him on the perimeter, or he was going for blocks and was not in position for defensive boards.

Having said that, Gardner's defense was so bad that I would want Theo as my starter, much like CO started over Gardner during their time together.

[Pakuni]

Looks like you really did some digging to find numbers to support your argument. The numbers I see are how many points per game did he score, rebounds, turnovers, blocks. From year 1 to year 4 not a hell of a lot of improvement. Not as much as what a typical starting player would improve from Freshmen to Senior.

Right, I looked at more advanced stats that give a better picture of how well a player is performing and helping his team. You looked at the back of a basketball card and ignored context.

[Spotcheck Billy]

But I read somewhere that even Dwight Burke is playing for $$$

[Pakuni]

For all there is to admire about Theo I believe that there are options with better speed, instinct, passing and shooting for him to be more than a "minutes here or there" guy for a high level program. His defensive presence was countered by silly fouls, a lack of any real offensive skill set, and a lack of feel that often seemed to leave him a step behind and out of position.  On a team where there is more talent, balance and a better strategy of use he may be just what some team is looking for, and I hope that is true--I just don't see it.

Well, hear me out ... perhaps your idea of what Theo should want from his next stop is very different from what Theo wants from his next stop.
Maybe his priority isn't to get the most shots up as possible against a lower level of competition (not that there would be anything wrong with that, if it's what he wanted).
Maybe, instead, he wants to play for a blueblood program, under a legendary coach, against the highest level of competition, and with a chance every year at a deep tourney run. All while continuing his education at one of the nation's elite universities. And when all's said and done, he gets to tell his kids and grandkids he played for Duke.
If doing that means sacrificing some minutes and shot attempts, maybe he's OK with that.

[hairy worthen]

Right, I looked at more advanced stats that give a better picture of how well a player is performing and helping his team. You looked at the back of a basketball card and ignored context.

Of course he improved in his senior year, he should. How much did he improve? One of the most in MU? Saying those are career highs means nothing. What are the numbers for all 4 years? And how does he compare with other players? Here are stats most people look at. They are what they are, the numbers don't lie.
STATS
2020-21
2019-20
2018-19
2017-18
GP   MIN   FG%   3P%   FT%   REB   AST   BLK   STL   PF   TO   PTS
27   26.3   57.2   75.0   74.0   5.0   1.2   1.5   0.6   2.8   1.9   8.0
30   20.9   54.9   0.0   56.0   5.2   0.7   1.8   0.4   2.7   0.9   5.1
34   19.7   60.2   0.0   50.6   4.9   0.5   2.1   0.3   3.6   1.1   5.5
33   11.8   57.3   0.0   50.0   2.3   0.2   0.8   0.3   2.5   1.1   3.9

You like his politics or his character? Great. That isn't a reflection of his play on the court. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter, we disagree. I am too excited about the future of the program to worry about Theo John.

[Pakuni]

You like his politics or his character? Great. That isn't a reflection of his play on the court. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter, we disagree. I am too excited about the future of the program to worry about Theo John.

*sigh*
You're right. I pointed to his improved TS%, eFG%, win shares and player efficiency rating not because those advanced metrics measure on-court play (that would be nuts!), but because of his politics and character.
Stop tripling down on your bad takes.

[brewcity77]

Well something or someone is nuts.

Those numbers are meaningless and how do they compare across all his years. Also how do they compare to other players. The poster claimed Theo was one of the most improved at MU and I am calling BS.  Looks like you really did some digging to find numbers to support your argument. The numbers I see are how many points per game did he score, rebounds, turnovers, blocks. From year 1 to year 4 not a hell of a lot of improvement. Not as much as what a typical starting player would improve from Freshmen to Senior.

Per game numbers are poor metrics for overall player evaluation.

[connie]

Well, hear me out ... perhaps your idea of what Theo should want from his next stop is very different from what Theo wants from his next stop.
Maybe his priority isn't to get the most shots up as possible against a lower level of competition (not that there would be anything wrong with that, if it's what he wanted).
Maybe, instead, he wants to play for a blueblood program, under a legendary coach, against the highest level of competition, and with a chance every year at a deep tourney run. All while continuing his education at one of the nation's elite universities. And when all's said and done, he gets to tell his kids and grandkids he played for Duke.
If doing that means sacrificing some minutes and shot attempts, maybe he's OK with that.

My comments were directed towards the Duke side of the equation.  If I were making the decision for Theo I would agree with every point you make and move him south asap.

[Uncle Rico]

My comments were directed towards the Duke side of the equation.  If I were making the decision for Theo I would agree with every point you make and move him south asap.

Duke needs dudes.  They aren't bringing Theo in as a player to get them over the hump.  They'd be bringing him in as a guy that can provide some minutes, experience, leadership and things of that nature.  Even Duke needs bodies

[jficke13]

They were running sets designed to get Theo the ball on the block in 20-21.  His offensive skill set is fine.    To me, his weakness was always rebounding.   Not a great offensive rebounder.   Defensively, either the opponents were running sets designed to keep him on the perimeter, or he was going for blocks and was not in position for defensive boards.

Having said that, Gardner's defense was so bad that I would want Theo as my starter, much like CO started over Gardner during their time together.

Remember the games that Creighton and Nova ran offense designed to drag him out of the paint and completely neutralized him and we had absolutely no adjustments to cope? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

[hairy worthen]

Per game numbers are poor metrics for overall player evaluation.

Ok, fine, why doesn't he answer the questions then. Saying Theo improved and throwing out a bunch of advanced stats doesn't say anything.  He damn well better improve in his senior year. What are the comparative numbers all 4 years? How much did he improve? How do his numbers compare with other 4-year players?  That was the initial argument. "One of the most improved players at MU" I believe it was stated. 

[jficke13]

Ok, fine, why doesn't he answer the questions then. Saying Theo improved and throwing out a bunch of advanced stats doesn't say anything.  He damn well better improve in his senior year. What are the comparative numbers all 4 years? How much did he improve? How do his numbers compare with other 4-year players?  That was the initial argument. "One of the most improved players at MU" I believe it was stated.

Why not?

[fjm]

Theo is a badass. He'll be missed for his leadership for sure.

Duke is a perfect spot for him. Spot minutes and when the team needs a spark.

And I absolutely believe he will make a good amount of money overseas.

[MU82]

Who knows how close Theo-to-Duke is to happening? It might never happen; it might already be a dead issue. None of us knows.

But if Coach K really does think Theo John can help Duke's basketball team, that will be the only validation I would need about his potential value to Duke. I don't think K would be taking him as some kind of charity case.

[Pakuni]

Officially Official

@Theojohn123: After conversations with my family, I have decided that next year I will be attending Duke University for my final year of eligibility. I would like to thank everyone who has been a part of my basketball journey. Happy to be joining #TheBrotherHood https://twitter.com/Theojohn123/status/1383058866674409478/photo/1

[Uncle Rico]

Very much look forward to watching Theo at Duke.  What an awesome opportunity

[naginiF]

Officially Official

@Theojohn123: After conversations with my family, I have decided that next year I will be attending Duke University for my final year of eligibility. I would like to thank everyone who has been a part of my basketball journey. Happy to be joining #TheBrotherHood https://twitter.com/Theojohn123/status/1383058866674409478/photo/1

Honestly, this is FANTASTIC for him  - going to a better program at a better academic institution.

All this quibbling about 'he's really not that good' is petty.

[Uncle Rico]

Honestly, this is FANTASTIC for him  - going to a better program at a better academic institution.

All this quibbling about 'he's really not that good' is petty.

If he's good enough for Duke, he's good enough for Marquette