Marquette to change/update University Seal

[4everwarriors]

Oh boy, here we go again. Can't wait for this public relations beauty, hey?

[The Sultan]

The Gold of college seals?

[BrewCity83]

The 13 current undergraduate MU students who identify as Native American MUST BE HEARD!!!!

[ZiggysFryBoy]

The Gold of college seals?

A gold seal as the seal?

Would make muggsy and smith(with his weird obsession with posting seal photos, must be an odd fetish or something) happy.

[wadesworld]

The 13 current undergraduate MU students who identify as Native American MUST BE HEARD!!!!

Right.  Silence the minority.

[BrewCity83]

The extreme minority.

[jficke13]

... okay? The seal design is important to you because...?

[Galway Eagle]

I think the seal should be redesigned if it's construed as offensive to a minority. That being said, if the University got a bunch of quotes from designers that were like "I'm gonna take this school to the cleaners" then I wouldn't blame them for saying "it's on like 10 things, go get a different Marquette shirt."

[wadesworld]

The extreme minority.

Yeah, so who cares about them?  They need not be heard.

[Jockey]

There is an obvious reason why the original painting was cropped the way it was for the seal.

Seals are known for their bad peripheral vision.

Reading this thread, I don't know if I laughed or if I shook my head more.

[dgies9156]

Yeah, so who cares about them?  They need not be heard.

There is a huge difference between being heard and acting on the voice of a very small segment of the community looking for a grievance.

What's important is twofold. First, the university needs to ensure folks are being heard and where offense is taken, someone is listening and willing to consider the offense.

Second, there needs to be a clear process by which possible action should be evaluated. The process should be open and clear, so reason becomes the basis for an action.

I'm an old-timer but I'm not sure I understand what's wrong with a seal in which Father Marquette is pointing the way in a canoe. That's probably what happened as the good padre's curiosity was aroused by things he saw along the way. If in fact we think the seal is racist, inflammatory or otherwise insulting to one or more segments of Marquette's stakeholders, then we have a hell of a lot bigger problem than a seal.

For if the notion prevails that a Roman Catholic priest leading a native American is insulting, then it is time to change the name of Marquette University, dump the Roman Catholic mission of the institution and run from everything we as Marquette grads, administrators and professors have stood for since 1881. This is just more than I can handle.

Dump Willie Wampum -- by all means. That was offensive.

Get Rid of Warriors -- yeah, I get it. Some found it offensive and while I would have strongly preferred we stay, I'm OK with being the Furry Birds. Gives me something to laugh about (the ugliness of the furry bird) and it probably keeps us out of the boiling kettle of oil the NCAA was preparing for us.

The Seal -- That just goes too far, because we're taking away something at the heart of our mission.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

The 13 current undergraduate MU students who identify as Native American MUST BE HEARD!!!!

And the other 99% of undergrads probably couldn't care less.

Seriously though, BLM is right very questionable line you're treading.

[jficke13]

I'm only vaguely aware that the seal exists. It's used on like 5 things.

This merits a big ole... fine. Whatever.

[Billy Hoyle]

Oh boy, here we go again. Can't wait for this public relations beauty, hey?

will they add the "land and water acknowledgment" into the seal?

[BrewCity83]

There is a huge difference between being heard and acting on the voice of a very small segment of the community looking for a grievance.

What's important is twofold. First, the university needs to ensure folks are being heard and where offense is taken, someone is listening and willing to consider the offense.

Second, there needs to be a clear process by which possible action should be evaluated. The process should be open and clear, so reason becomes the basis for an action.

I'm an old-timer but I'm not sure I understand what's wrong with a seal in which Father Marquette is pointing the way in a canoe. That's probably what happened as the good padre's curiosity was aroused by things he saw along the way. If in fact we think the seal is racist, inflammatory or otherwise insulting to one or more segments of Marquette's stakeholders, then we have a hell of a lot bigger problem than a seal.

For if the notion prevails that a Roman Catholic priest leading a native American is insulting, then it is time to change the name of Marquette University, dump the Roman Catholic mission of the institution and run from everything we as Marquette grads, administrators and professors have stood for since 1881. This is just more than I can handle.

Dump Willie Wampum -- by all means. That was offensive.

Get Rid of Warriors -- yeah, I get it. Some found it offensive and while I would have strongly preferred we stay, I'm OK with being the Furry Birds. Gives me something to laugh about (the ugliness of the furry bird) and it probably keeps us out of the boiling kettle of oil the NCAA was preparing for us.

The Seal -- That just goes too far, because we're taking away something at the heart of our mission.

The voice of reason.  Thank you, I agree with this completely.

[CTWarrior]

From what I can tell by looking at the painting, Pere Marquette could be asking what is that way or saying he'd like to see what is that way.  Don't see the racism there at all.  The seal, changes the image slightly to make it look a lot more like he is commanding rather than accompanying.  If they do change the seal, only a tweak is needed, like using a different likeness of Pere Marquette, or just changing his hands so they are more open like they are in the painting and less pointing and ordering around.

[wadesworld]

Im not saying I think the MU seal needs to be changed immediately or anything. But the idea that just because it's (whatever tiny percentage of whatever population you're discussing) means they should be silenced is, well, problematic.

Also, if nobody even knows what the seal is, who cares if it's changed?

[Pakuni]

The Seal -- That just goes too far, because we're taking away something at the heart of our mission.

Marquette University is a Catholic, Jesuit university dedicated to serving God by serving our students and contributing to the advancement of knowledge. Our mission, therefore, is the search for truth, the discovery and sharing of knowledge, the fostering of personal and professional excellence, the promotion of a life of faith, and the development of leadership expressed in service to others. All this we pursue for the greater glory of God and the common benefit of the human community.

Missing the part of MU's mission that involves a priest pointing over the head of a Native American.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

   Pere Marquette is pointing the way to Salvation
  Can't believe anyone missed that.. 

   

[Billy Hoyle]

Marquette University is a Catholic, Jesuit university dedicated to serving God by serving our students and contributing to the advancement of knowledge. Our mission, therefore, is the search for truth, the discovery and sharing of knowledge, the fostering of personal and professional excellence, the promotion of a life of faith, and the development of leadership expressed in service to others. All this we pursue for the greater glory of God and the common benefit of the human community.

Missing the part of MU's mission that involves a priest pointing over the head of a Native American.

Well, Father Marquette is on land the Indigenous bloke sitting in a canoe so any pointing would be above his head, even if it could just be just be Father Marquette responding to the directions he's being given and confirming them. And perhaps the Indigenous fellow was behind Father Marquette so it just looks like it's "over the head of a Native American" due to depth perception.

But no, it must be something insidious and worst of all "racist." 

[Pakuni]

Well, Father Marquette is on land the Indigenous bloke sitting in a canoe so any pointing would be above his head, even if it could just be just be Father Marquette responding to the directions he's being given and confirming them. And perhaps the Indigenous fellow was behind Father Marquette so it just looks like it's "over the head of a Native American" due to depth perception.

But no, it must be something insidious and worst of all "racist."

Hmmm. You'll have to show me where I wrote anything like that.
Just asking how a priest pointing over a Native American's head is "at the heart" of Marquette University's mission. Please explain.

[StateStreetMission]

https://www.mysticstamp.com/Products/DisplayPicture.aspx?key=293373&FileID=/pictures/stamps_large/lg_303103.jpg

Here are 2 images, one in which a Native American is pointing, the other appears to be 4 Europeans exploring in a canoe.

The latter was a 1968 USPS commemorative stamp

Would either of these be appropriate?

[Galway Eagle]

The seal has not been around since MU's founding and has had various changes throughout the years including 94-95 when they added the 1881 so it's not like minor tweak are unheard of.

[NolongerWarriors]

Marquette University, once again creating a problem when there was none, lol.

[warriorchick]

https://marquettewire.org/4067455/featured/editorial-slow-mu-seal-redesign-failing-native-students-communities/

Apparently, these kids don't understand how this works. There are layers of focus groups, committee meetings, bureaucracy, etc. Not to mention the number of significant donors that would need to sign off...