[mubbPAC] The Case Against Steve Wojciechowski: Enough is Enough

[Farley36]

Literally nobody thinks this.

What some of us have said is that every post -- even those on Superbar subjects like what TV shows people are watching -- doesn't need to be turned into a Fire Wojo thread because there are dozens of those.

But you be you.

Literally in every discussion on Wojo there is someone like you who says doesn't matter because he's not getting fired.  this thread is about an article laying out why he should be fired and a couple people had to say some version "good article but he's not getting fired."  You and I both know the intent of that is "shut up about Wojo because he'll be here next year."

[Farley36]

"All the damage he has done", a little dramatic. I love the discussion and have been an active contributor to the discussion.  Just managing my own expectations and reminding myself that if the change hasn't happened yet it won't happen now just cause a few Marquette die hard fans/bloggers put together a fantastic argument for it and one that largely supports the views of the overall fan base.  If can dissatisfaction was enough the change would have been made at the end of last year or as soon as this season ended imo. 

It's either BOT is happy with the way the program is being run despite lackluster results or financial reasons for keeping him around.  Fan input doesn't appear to be in the equation at this point.

All the damage he has done is dramatic?  Did you read the article?  😂   You seem to be under the impression that because the administration is dumb enough to retain him that we should all be happy and shut up about it. 

[PointWarrior]

Dodd's head is so far up the administration's ass that he either could not read it or it would keep his head from exploding.

Someone should post that on Dodds board and watch his head explode.

[Lighthouse 84]

Good analysis and well written. Wojo may run a clean program (important) and be a nice guy, but facts don't care about feelings and you lay out the facts concisely. Hopefully, it at least gives the BoT and administration something to think about (more likely next year than this).

[pacearrow02]

All the damage he has done is dramatic?  Did you read the article?  😂   You seem to be under the impression that because the administration is dumb enough to retain him that we should all be happy and shut up about it.

I said the exact opposite.

[naginiF]

All the damage he has done is dramatic?  Did you read the article?  😂   You seem to be under the impression that because the administration is dumb enough to retain him that we should all be happy and shut up about it.

"I'm so angry at the situation I'm going to a fan forum and incessantly complain that others aren't angry enough!"

[Dr. Blackheart]

Great! 

I get the "all metrics" part, but computer preseason and early season numbers are largely crap.  In fact most preseason numbers (human too) are crap.  For Wojo, I think it's enough to say the end of season numbers are not trending in the right direction.

Actually, they are based on models and the thing about models, they can be validated. KPom is one of the best (TRank is the lowest). But of course the error bands. For his, it's plus or minus 20% at the SD. It's a great, objective benchmark to irrational fan expectations.

So when you say "crap", I'd take that any day for accuracy compared to trend spotters (about 90% WRONG) or new products (about 90% failure rate). I did a CS piece way back on rating the experts on polls (reporters and coaches), and their preseason rankings were about 57% accurate. Give me KPom, Luddites!

[Shooter McGavin]

This is a pretty damning article.  Good read.  Hard for the administration to ignore, one would think. 

[Scoop Snoop]

While Wojo is likely here next year, there is still a possibility that, whether he finds a school foolish enough to hire him or somehow, despite MU's financial problems, he is fired. I know that the longer there is no announcement the more it looks like we are stuck with him. Hopefully, there will be enough national embarrassment after this circulates that the BOT, Lovell and Scholl may decide to reconsider their (assumed) decision to keep him.

Scholl's comments mean nothing to me. Instead of coachspeak we got ADspeak.

[Farley36]

"I'm so angry at the situation I'm going to a fan forum and incessantly complain that others aren't angry enough!"

No I'm actually complaining that some fans seem to think that everyone should stop talking about the only important MUBB issue there is just because the administration is stupid enough to let the problem persist.

[The Sultan]

Actually, they are based on models and the thing about models, they can be validated. KPom is one of the best (TRank is the lowest). But of course the error bands. For his, it's plus or minus 20% at the SD. It's a great, objective benchmark to irrational fan expectations.

So when you say "crap", I'd take that any day for accuracy compared to trend spotters (about 90% WRONG) or new products (about 90% failure rate). I did a CS piece way back on rating the experts on polls (reporters and coaches), and their preseason rankings were about 57% accurate. Give me KPom, Luddites!

And I think the point of including them isn't that the pre-season ranks aren't always 100% accurate, but that that he is constantly underperforming them. 

[Jockey]

Outstanding article by guys who routinely do great work. You have my appreciation.

Wojo is just a generic caricature of a coach. He does nothing well while helming his team. He is as bland on the bench as he is in real life. His only ability is recruiting - and even that is overrated at times.

[StillAWarrior]

No I'm actually complaining that some fans seem to think that everyone should stop talking about the only important MUBB issue there is just because the administration is stupid enough to let the problem persist.

I've yet to see anyone who seems to think that people should stop talking about it. I don't think saying, "he's not getting fired" is even remotely the same thing as telling people to talk talking about it. From a lot of the people who say it, it's just an expression of still more frustration/pessimism about the situation.*

*And also an opinion that not every thread on the site must be about what a train wreck we have on our hands.

[rocky_warrior]

I did a CS piece way back on rating the experts on polls (reporters and coaches), and their preseason rankings were about 57% accurate. Give me KPom, Luddites!

Isn't that similar to wojo's winning %?  Success! lol.

[rocky_warrior]

And I think the point of including them isn't that the pre-season ranks aren't always 100% accurate, but that that he is constantly underperforming them.

Generally underperforming.  But again, it doesn't matter where you start.  It only matters where you end.  I love kenpom, but preseason computer models are crap. 

[MuggsyB]

Keep attacking boys.

Attack, attack, attack.

#Attack and Sack Wojo

[dgies9156]

I think you all have me and most of the realists wrong.

We know the record. It sucks.

We know how good Marquette can be. Many of us were then when ....

Our good friends at Cracked Sidewalks, Anonymous Eagle and Paint Touches went beyond the record and explained, "why." Cracked Sidewalks was right on with the Hausers being the defining moment and it being a Management breakdown.

It's not what we want -- good lord, most of us if asked point blank, would argue a change is necessary. Period. Me included.

But, we love the program and we love Marquette University. We're realistic enough to believe that Wojo is going no where because there's no appetite for a change. So, if he's going to stay, other things have to change. And, as I pointed out yesterday, you have to sell that a difference is coming. Something we all acknowledge hasn't happened so far. I wish the Administration would see this -- I'm not sure they do -- and I really don't have a lot of confidence in their ability to find someone like Nate Oats who can lead us back to what we once were.

This year, I felt like the team was more concerned about social issues than they were about winning. The issues are important and the players' opinions matter, but they're there to win. You need to worry about the distractions off the court. When they wore black at home the one game they were protesting, I turned the TV off. I knew they were going to get clobbered because their minds were elsewhere.

I'll admit that as the season wore on, I watched less and less. I was disgusted by the turnovers, poor plays and lousy schemes. When we won and my MU grad wife saw a sign of relief and asked, "did we win?" I just grimaced and said, "I guess that's what you call it."

[Warrior2008]

This article is absolutely fantastic.  Factually presented without emotion.  It makes defending Wojo and the product over the last seven years impossible from a basketball perspective.

But as I see it, there are two questions that need to be answered for Wojo to be fired.

1. Does Wojo's performance as a coach warrant firing?  Undoubtedly as the article clearly articulates.

2. Does it make financial sense for the university to fire Wojo?  This is the problem and I don't know the answer. Marquette already spends a lot on basketball and isn't some bottomless coffer.  As has been well documented, the university is going through a downsizing due to financial pressures thanks to covid and demographics.  It is not prudent for the university financially or optically to be paying millions of dollars to get rid of a coach while slashing budgets across the campus.  Perhaps some will see that as a copout, but its reality.  So unless there are alumni and boosters out there willing to personally pay for Wojo to be gone ala Indiana and Archie, he will most definitely be the coach next season. 

What's not entirely clear to me though is the risk of retaining Wojo.  How many alums and season ticket holders will cancel tickets?  Is Scoop representative of the larger mubb fanbase or is it just a vocal minority?  There is clearly a level of apathy that has begun to creep in, but at this point its anyone's guess as to how much that translates to the financial bottom line.  If I were Scholl, that's what I would be trying to figure out asap.

[Silent Verbal]

Seeing MU fans band together like this is inspiring.  Shows what a passionate fan base we are.  Enough is enough!

One thing is certain:  If Wojo's back next year, he'll have the hottest seat in the country.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Seeing MU fans band together like this is inspiring.  Shows what a passionate fan base we are.  Enough is enough!

One thing is certain:  If Wojo's back next year, he'll have the hottest seat in the country.

Heres the problem, short of a conference championship/s16 run, nothing changes. And even then, that's the absolute bare minimum.

Just rip the bandaid off and start over. I know it's easier said than done with the financial situation, but the money isn't going to magically rectify itself in on year either.

[Warrior of Law]

The representatives of MU fan nation have spoken.  As LBJ said, "If I've lost Cronkite, I've lost middle America."

[panda]

Heres the problem, short of a conference championship/s16 run, nothing changes. And even then, that's the absolute bare minimum.

Just rip the bandaid off and start over. I know it's easier said than done with the financial situation, but the money isn't going to magically rectify itself in on year either.

Yep - he's a lame duck coach. Nothing will save him next year.

[Gato78]

You realize all of this stuff is late and would actually make it more difficult for Wojo to obtain employment elsewhere (like Utah) as many of you have suggested?

[Shooter McGavin]

I agree that Scholl needs to figure this out quickly.  His brief legacy is on the line as well.  Leaving the MBBall program worse off than he found it would be a huge indictment of him as well as Wojo.

[NickelDimer]

You realize all of this stuff is late and would actually make it more difficult for Wojo to obtain employment elsewhere (like Utah) as many of you have suggested?

Moving on from Wojo shouldn't be contingent on him finding employment elsewhere so it's moot.