Would SLU bring anything to the BE?

[Uncle Rico]

Marquette is gonna suck at basketball from now on, never ever ever to be good again.

So we might as well go to the Summit League and let SLU have our BEast spot.

Summit?  Drop to D3 IMO

[Warriors4ever]

Yeah, right now they’d bring another team to finish in front of us.....

[MU82]

Summit?  Drop to D3 IMO

Maybe just do the club basketball thing, like we did with football.

Because, you know, when you miss the NCAA tournament 1 consecutive season, why even bother continuing with the sport?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The only teams from a mid major conference that would bring enough eyeballs to justify the move are Gonzaga and BYU. Neither work for obvious reasons. If another P6 school wanted to move for some reason it may make sense

[shoothoops]

The short answer is SLU would do just fine in the BIg East for a variety of reasons.

The longer answer is a mix of past, present, future, resources, commitment, and even some pyschological insecurities.

This board has many, (many more than I thought when I joined, umm older folk which is all good 👍) who seem to have short term memories. They have blocked out the Bob Dukiet days, the days when Kevin O'Neill said he had to shield prospective recruits from panhandlers while showing campus. They have blocked out hitting their head in the Old Gym basement while walking to the back weight room while watching the basketball team use a tiny weight room at the same time as several other uiversity athletic teams in comical fashion.

There is a strange, but perhaps understandable psychological insecurity for some that a former league team somehow triggers past memories of MUBB not being in the Big East, as if it meant MUBB would leave the Big East and go back to that or something else. And some of these people irrationally cling with all of their might to that.

Part of that of course is that to some and for some, MUBB isn't all that and a bag of chips, and, it stings a little bit for those MUBB people. So if MUBB can't be all that, it certainly has to be better than teams from non Power 5/Big East, right?

Marquette could have been Villanova, winning a few recent National Titles, and, Marquette could have been SLU.

The question is how would SLU be in the Big East today. I 'll get back to that in a minute.

How did we get here?

As some here know, University Administration matters. Timing also matters. There is quite a spirited discussion in another current thread about MU President, Admin, Board etc...

SLU's former school President had little interest in Athletics. He was there 25 years. He also did not have the people skills and networking skills of a Tim Lannon for example. We all know Fr. Lannon, yes? Former Marquette Vice President that later became President of Creighton after former Marquette Dean of Arts and Sciences John Schlegel.

Memories fade over time. KO had 1 good season out of 3 in Great Midwest. Tom Crean had 2 out of 6 strong seasons. SLU was competitive  with MUBB despite some of their disadvantages. And people showed up. Top 25 attendance years etc...

It's interesting what some people notice and don't notice. Things can go a lot of different ways.

Back to the question, how would SLU do now, moving forward?

Do they have the facilities? They do. They built a $100 Million on campus Arena with several practice courts and bells and whistles this past decade. It's full when they are competitive. People showed up for Spoon, for the Majerus era, for Ford. Marquette fans know what that is like with all of the attendance threads, students, etc...more revenue, more resources each time you step up a league.

What about that Admin? They no longer have the same school President blocking that path. And he came from a school that understands  and supports basketball. They do still have some BOT issues. But they also have their own Dick Strong in Richard Chaifetz. Their AD (whom Majerus picked,) has done well with a variety of coaching hires thus far. They don't want for as much as the past.
The market is top 20 and bigger than several markets already in the Big East. The basketball interest level is already there. Give them a Power 5/Big East League to see and watch, and that only improves.

Are they competitive now? They are. They have been under the past few eras. And, people are still showing up.

Marquette has made the NCAA's 3 out of 8 years. Crean made them 5 out of 9. Buzz made them 5 of 6 Deane made them 2 out of 5 years. Kevin O'Neill made them 2 out of 4 years. Bob Dukiet made them 0 out of 3 years. Rick made them 0 of 3 years, going back four decades.

When Creighton joined the Big East, they had made the NCAA's just 2 of the previous 6 seasons. Since joining the Big East, they have made it 5 of 8 years. And, they have a top 3 league finish 6 of their 8 years, including a regular season league title.

So what is the point of this example? It shows teams can and do elevate when they join a better league, and/or have more resources so that you can compare apples to apples.

It's like watching coaching searches of smaller league coaches and going by their NCAA totals more than regular season totals even though getting to the NCAA's is way more difficult for those leagues than Power 5/Big East teams.

Gonzaga isn't joining the Big East.

One of the things Travis Ford did when getting hired at SLU is hire Corey Tate. Corey was a local player, played and coached at Mizzou. He is heavily connected to the local basketball scene. They have the support of local NBA players such as Bradley Beal, Jayson Tatum etc...and others. They know SLU would get more of the elite local players similar to themselves. EJ Liddell would have considered it more for example to follow in the footsteps of his cousin Tommie, former SLU player. As it is, they have six local players on their roster, 3 of whom start and are some of the better players in the A-10. They also have one coming in next year, they were in the final two for Jordan Nesbitt, etc...they would have more chances tor the likes of Caleb Love and Tarris Reed Jr. etc...

St. John's is getting a little bit of publicity for being more competitive relatively quickly under Mike Anderson. The subject of some of that discussion is Van Macon. Macon of course was an assistant for Ford at SLU who recruited some of those good players both at SLU and St. John's.

So, I'm sure there will be a variety of responses, many negative one liners, etc...because it isn't Gonzaga. But we shouldn't be all that surprised. We all want a league of Jay Wright, Mark Few, etc...we all want capacity crowds, Saturday night home games again, competing at the highest levels. I remember when Mark Few made the NCAA Tourney 2nd weekend those times with double digit seeds, and didn't with better seeds. I also remember when some weren't always all that interested in them. But advancing to a Final Four in his 18th year, and results since has changed some opinions there. (He would have done just fine in Big East before ever making a Final Four at Gonzaga)

But as mentioned above, MUBB could have gone down a different path. One could say well they didn't. Another could then say teams elevate in better leagues. Isn't that how it works? Head Coaches come from non Power 5/Big East Leagues into those leagues and elevate their programs and hopefully have success. The same can be said for teams too.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

They would bring a quality pizza.

Delete your account.

[tower912]

Less money for the rest of the schools.

[cheebs09]

Maybe a few Majerus stories. Otherwise, nothing that I can think of.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

They would bring a quality pizza.

Stop it please.

[Badgerhater]

These egotistical views don't work anymore as we have turned into SLU.  I would be fine with adding them if it doesn't take money away from MU.

If MU is now SLU then it should join the A-10.   It is MU’s fault it’s program has slipped, but if it wants to right the ship, MU’s ceiling is much higher then the A-10.

[lawdog77]

Stop it please.

Didn't think I needed teal.

[GooooMarquette]

11 is the perfect number for a round robin 20 game conference schedule. Wouldn’t be shocked to see the Big 12 add an 11th team like a Wichita State or a BYU for basketball soon.

Only reason to add SLU is the the market. St. Louis is a new city to add to the territory but that means nothing since Big East does not have it’s own network like some of the other conferences.

I see what you did there.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The question is how would SLU be in the Big East today.

No it isn't. This is the question that was asked by the OP:

The question would be whether they would add anything to the Fox contract as UCONN likely did. 

And the answer to that is no. You can make an argument that if you replaced one of the current members with SLU that it would be worth it but that is not an option. SLU does not bring enough to the table to justify slicing the pie another way, I'd argue most schools, including P6 schools, don't.

Of course they could compete in the Big East. They have all the tools to do so. But that's not what matters.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I seem to recall a discussion before the season, is there another school if they went Independent in football like UConn, would the Big East want?

Obviously P5 universities are not dropping football, so outside that.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

DePaul likely would block Loyola of Chicago's entry into the Big East.

SLU, forget it. Market isn't significant enough and team isn't good enough. However, if they did join, could see the Big East breaking into divisions as follows:

MU
Creighton
DePaul
Xavier
SLU
Butler

UConn
Georgetown
Villanova
Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall

Would have really nice balance.

This would be disgusting for the existing Big East schools that get stuck in that midwest division. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

No it isn't. This is the question that was asked by the OP:

And the answer to that is no. You can make an argument that if you replaced one of the current members with SLU that it would be worth it but that is not an option. SLU does not bring enough to the table to justify slicing the pie another way, I'd argue most schools, including P6 schools, don't.

Of course they could compete in the Big East. They have all the tools to do so. But that's not what matters.

If Gonzaga were located in Denver, it would be a no brainer.

[shoothoops]

No it isn't. This is the question that was asked by the OP:

And the answer to that is no. You can make an argument that if you replaced one of the current members with SLU that it would be worth it but that is not an option. SLU does not bring enough to the table to justify slicing the pie another way, I'd argue most schools, including P6 schools, don't.

Of course they could compete in the Big East. They have all the tools to do so. But that's not what matters.

My post my question. One of multiple questions answered in my post.

A competitive SLU would add a top 20 national market, and all that goes with that. It's up to the Big East if that matters to them. A finished National Product comes after joining the league, not before.

Many of the replies in the thread have been predictably short term memory, comparing apples to oranges etc...

[Badgerhater]

DePaul likely would block Loyola of Chicago's entry into the Big East.

SLU, forget it. Market isn't significant enough and team isn't good enough. However, if they did join, could see the Big East breaking into divisions as follows:

MU
Creighton
DePaul
Xavier
SLU
Butler

UConn
Georgetown
Villanova
Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall

Would have really nice balance.

Big East-East and Big East-West.
Big East-original and Big East-from lesser conferences.

No thanks

[Viper]

We were in the same conference (Great Midwest and Conference USA) as SLU between 1991 and 2004.

IMO the reason Creighton got the BE bid over SLU was due to Creighton really emerging as a basketball program and due to SLU's leadership issues at the exact wrong time.

But no, SLU does nothing for the BE to warrant splitting the pie another way.  I agree that Gonzaga is the only program presently that would.

i remember Larry Hughes. Seems like he went off on MU a couple times, but just don’t recall many great games vs them over that span. I wonder what SLU’s hoops budget is? What holds them back from being better year-in year-out?

[MarquetteMike1977]

DePaul likely would block Loyola of Chicago's entry into the Big East.

SLU, forget it. Market isn't significant enough and team isn't good enough. However, if they did join, could see the Big East breaking into divisions as follows:

MU
Creighton
DePaul
Xavier
SLU
Butler

UConn
Georgetown
Villanova
Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall

Would have really nice balance.

Have been to all gyms mentioned but Providence

[MU82]

The only addition that would benefit the Big East is Gonzaga, and has been discussed ad nauseam is logistically a near impossibility.

Notre Dame definitely would benefit the Big East. But they ain't walkin' through that door, either.

[Shooter McGavin]

Awful.  Looks like B1G football with a clear upper and lower division.  Guess which one Marquette is in.

Yep.  Would be awful to have divisions.  I want MU to play each east coast team twice. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

My post my question. One of multiple questions answered in my post.

A competitive SLU would add a top 20 national market, and all that goes with that. It's up to the Big East if that matters to them.

And it's only going to matter to them if a media partner is going to increase the per school payout for adding that market.  And my guess is that it won't.

My guess is that this made sense in the case of the UConn add, not only because it's UConn, but because they increased the number of conference games by over 20% (90 to 110) with the commitment to a full round robin.  If they add another school it is doubtful that they would go to 22 conference games, so any further addition only increases the game inventory by about 9% (110 to 120).

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

My post my question. One of multiple questions answered in my post.

Okay. But it wasn't the question posed in this thread.

SLU absolutely could be competitive if they were in the Big East.

SLU also doesn't bring enough value to justify slicing the pie an additional way.

Both of these things are true. But the first one is only relevant if the second one isn't true. And the second one isn't an insult to SLU, its a statement that applies to the vast majority of college basketball programs.

[PBRme]

I'm in the minority but I would not be opposed to the add.

Easy road trip distance both ways and St Louis is not a bad city to spend a weekend in. Might increase MU home attendance with SLU fans coming up and my guess is they have to be a lot better than the Creighton fans.

Natural rivalry for MKE residents as St Louis always brings negative connotations with Cardinals and Bud.

St Louis does not have a pro team so increasing the quality of the Bball played there may bring in more casual fans which might allow SLU to "buy in" to BEast.

Agree it is better for SLU than MU but overall not terrible.