What Would It Take for Forgiveness?

[5DollarPitcher]

Nothing he could accomplish in one season (short of a FF or National Championship preferably combined with Big East hardware) could grant him the forgiveness he needs.

He has done such an inconceivable amount of damage to the program over 7 years that he needs improved results consistently over 3-4 years to change my mind on his abilities as a coach.

He may fluke his way into a Sweet Sixteen if we keep him around long enough (blind squirrel and nut situation) but he will NEVER build this program to the level of consistent success that should be expected at Marquette. That much is fact.

[rocky_warrior]

You actually posted only one fact.  Winning a NC would make him an MU god and untouchable.

There is less he could accomplish for forgiveness.

The damage is conceivable.

He probably won't, but could build a consistently successful program.

[5DollarPitcher]

He probably won't, but could build a consistently successful program.

He is incapable of it. Fact.

[StillAWarrior]

The only thing that would change my mind on Wojo is consistency...

I'm confident that he'll give you consistency.

...3 straight seasons of top 5 in the BE, at least 2 seasons with a Dance, and at least 1 win.

Oh...you meant consistently good. Yeah, I'm afraid that's gonna be a problem.

[Uncle Rico]

It will come down an eye test and gut feeling for me. There are times that you see a team/program has legitimately turned a corner and they have built a foundation for bigger things. Not at one time during the seven years have I really felt they had turned the corner in a big way. I remember in KO's first year you could sense that a culture was being formed, a style of play/system in place and the fan base felt excited.

I hate to say it, but if Wojo is back next year I am more interested in seeing a season of hard work, toughness and far more well played games than not. Too many times on here the header of a thread referenced an ugly win, a win is a win or similar titles. Great programs can have ugly wins, marginal programs need to learn how to win with good play.

I have said for a couple of years now that I would sacrifice wins for a sustainable program and he has provided neither, IMO. He would have make big time leap next season for me to give him an inch a rope.

Well said, Goose

I have no idea what Wojo’s principles are on either side of the ball.  Effort hasn’t been lacking but they certainly haven’t shown a sustained toughness or edge to them as a program.  I thought this group had it, but it never sustained itself

I don’t think there’s a snowballs chance in hello he establishs any of that next year and it’s too late anyway

[We R Final Four]

What else is there, rivalry games, conference tourney, non-conference, other tourneys, other results that are not as quantified, some of which have been mentioned in this thread.

Yes March Madness is NCAA Results.

I posted what I believe MU would or wouldn't do, and/or would look at most with regards to a decision.

?
So you are suggesting scoopers would like to see improvement in the league and March Madness, but the other games in the season....kind of indifferent?
Ok.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Before we can even talk about next season's results, Wojo has to make a huge splash in the transfer market.  if not, there is nothing he can do about next season because we are gonna be in a world of hurt next year without an infusion of new players. 

[Galway Eagle]

He is incapable of it. Fact.

That's a theory. It's been tested repeatedly and shown to be true but cannot be proven

[Eye]

It's more shades of gray than this, but based on the options given, I was at #3 in the list into this year, so up to #2 in the list at a minimum if change isn't made.

[Mu8891]

Basically it’s hopeless

A lot of good posts above.  If he even
MAKES the NCAAT the stupid Admin
will give him an extension

The problems he has created w / the team and program are soooo deep they
can’t be fixed in a year.

He’s already blaming this year on
Covid / and Lovell et al are buying it.
So too are the slurpers like Dodds and
many on the “ other “ board

He’s had SEVEN years!  How many of us can basically fail at a job for that long and keep coming back ?

$hit ... an NIT bid next year ( and a
“Good recruiting class “ lol ) will probably keep him.   Really. 

[Uncle Rico]

Basically it’s hopeless

A lot of good posts above.  If he even
MAKES the NCAAT the stupid Admin
will give him an extension

The problems he has created w / the team and program are soooo deep they
can’t be fixed in a year.

He’s already blaming this year on
Covid / and Lovell et al are buying it.
So too are the slurpers like Dodds and
many on the “ other “ board

He’s had SEVEN years!  How many of us can basically fail at a job for that long and keep coming back ?

$hit ... an NIT bid next year ( and a
“Good recruiting class “ lol ) will probably keep him.   Really.

.

It won’t

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think some missed the point of this thread and that's probably my fault. Title wasn't the best. I wasn't asking what it would take to make you think he was the guy, I agree that short of a Final Four that will take multiple seasons. I was more wondering what it take for you to agree, even begrudgingly, that he has earned one more season.

I've long said that coaches that make NCAA tournaments don't get fired (unless they're Rick Barnes). But just like COVID may save Wojo job this season, I think it could cost him his job next season. He should be fired this season, he won't be due to COVID. Given that, I think it's fair to say he needs to overachieve next season to make up for this one.

[5DollarPitcher]

I wasn't asking what it would take to make you think he was the guy, I agree that short of a Final Four that will take multiple seasons. I was more wondering what it take for you to agree, even begrudgingly, that he has earned one more season.

These questions should be, and are (in my opinion), the exact same question. As soon as you realize, or are convinced, that someone is “not the guy”, you have to fire him.

There is no in between firing and believing someone is or could be the guy. As soon as you allow for a middle ground there (which it seems the admin has done), you create a vacuum for perpetual mediocrity - which is the most damaging thing, in the long term, for the program.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

There is no in between firing and believing someone is or could be the guy.

Actually, you just identified the middle ground. There is "is", "isn't", and "could be". Right now Wojo has pushed practically all of us into the "isn't" category. There's a theoretical performance next season that gets Wojo back into the "could be" category. I'm asking people what that is for them.

Cause I can guarantee you, if Wojo gets a top 4 seed or makes the Sweet 16, he's coming back no mater what anyone thinks of him. He's gone if doesn't make tournament no matter what anyone thinks of him. I don't know where the actual line is in between those two.

[Silent Verbal]

Actually, you just identified the middle ground. There is "is", "isn't", and "could be". Right now Wojo has pushed practically all of us into the "isn't" category. There's a theoretical performance next season that gets Wojo back into the "could be" category. I'm asking people what that is for them.

Cause I can guarantee you, if Wojo gets a top 4 seed or makes the Sweet 16, he's coming back no mater what anyone thinks of him. He's gone if doesn't make tournament no matter what anyone thinks of him. I don't know where the actual line is in between those two.

I just do not see this magical land of milk and honey scenario next year where Wojo has regular and postseason success, stays at Marquette for the foreseeable future, and we all live happily ever after.  Like, do you honestly think that’s something that could happen (even though you really, really want it to)?

If Wojo has a good year next year, he will try to jump to another job to reset his coaching clock.  Unless he does something crazy like make a Final Four, he’ll be fired the next time he doesn’t make the tournament.  He also will not have Carton and Garcia in 22-23, I think we can all realistically say those guys will go pro after next season.  He can’t afford another rebuild.  For the sake of his own career, he needs to reset his coaching clock as quickly as possible.  He’d do it this year, but I doubt any school would have him.  And think about that:  We have a coach no one wants.

[Galway Eagle]

These questions should be, and are (in my opinion), the exact same question. As soon as you realize, or are convinced, that someone is “not the guy”, you have to fire him.

There is no in between firing and believing someone is or could be the guy. As soon as you allow for a middle ground there (which it seems the admin has done), you create a vacuum for perpetual mediocrity - which is the most damaging thing, in the long term, for the program.

Clearly someone hasn't worked in sales. You can be PIP'd for 3months and hit quota then be given another chance. But both you and the manager know that you aren't "the guy"

[5DollarPitcher]

Clearly someone hasn't worked in sales. You can be PIP'd for 3months and hit quota then be given another chance. But both you and the manager know that you aren't "the guy"

This ain’t sales

[swoopem]

In the off-season, I’d like to see some meaningful change. Whether it’s in philosophy, staff, or something else that shows Wojo recognizes something isn’t working.

My worry is he will chalk last year up to Covid and bank on the core gaining some more experience. We then would do the same stuff as always and for some reason expect different results.

I guarantee his excuse next year will be “we lost 3 seniors. That’s a lot of experience to fill. We’re still trying to find the identity of this team. Blah blah blah”

Guy is full of BS

[willie warrior]

I won't vote for any of those options. 

The only thing that would change my mind on Wojo is consistency .. 3 straight seasons of top 5 in the BE, at least 2 seasons with a Dance, and at least 1 win.

I wouldn't require that of a new coach, only him, he's dug into such a deep hole.

This will 100% not happen without 5+ years more.    No one should be willing to invest that kind of time on a poor gamble.

Agree somewhat with this. Three straight seasons of Top 5 BEast is too low of a bar. Consistently copeting for the title should be the expectation. Wojo-Dukiet needs to be gone. Just like all the excuses.

[CountryRoads]

Results are great, but I want to see him actually address the constant deficiencies. It's more about being able to put a top-25 efficiency defense on the floor night in and night out. It's about cutting the turnover rate down to the top-50...

I’d agree with this and I’d like to see consistency in all of these metrics. Winning takes care of itself at that point.

This off-season major changes need to occur with players/coaches. We need at the very least 3 (maybe even 4) players to be cut loose because they don’t have the talent to compete at this level on either end of the floor. Targeting replacement players who help improve the issues and not some low major transfer who is proven to be erratic and turns it over at a high rate (for example). Signing Chartouney and Perez was just throwing crap at the wall at hoping it stuck...and it didn’t.

Lastly, Presutti and Judson need to be fired simply being for being complete nothings. If wojo won’t do it, then his boss must. I’m sick of the culture of promoting the video assistant intern or whatever to assistant coach. Cam will be next to be promoted. Wojo needs to be surrounded by more foreign entities who will challenge and hold him accountable.

[wildbillsb]

Giving you a  big Amen!

[79Warrior]

I’d agree with this and I’d like to see consistency in all of these metrics. Winning takes care of itself at that point.

This off-season major changes need to occur with players/coaches. We need at the very least 3 (maybe even 4) players to be cut loose because they don’t have the talent to compete at this level on either end of the floor. Targeting replacement players who help improve the issues and not some low major transfer who is proven to be erratic and turns it over at a high rate (for example). Signing Chartouney and Perez was just throwing crap at the wall at hoping it stuck...and it didn’t.

Lastly, Presutti and Judson need to be fired simply being for being complete nothings. If wojo won’t do it, then his boss must. I’m sick of the culture of promoting the video assistant intern or whatever to assistant coach. Cam will be next to be promoted. Wojo needs to be surrounded by more foreign entities who will challenge and hold him accountable.

While you are likely correct about the assistants, Scholl is not going to fire Wojo's coaches.

[Silent Verbal]

Nothing against Cam, but he was basically put on the team because of who his dad was, right?  He wouldn’t make the team at UW-Whitewater and couldn’t have been much use a walk on.  But I’m guessing his dad had a lot of friends on the BOT, which is a feather in Wojo’s cap in that regard.

[brewcity77]

While you are likely correct about the assistants, Scholl is not going to fire Wojo's coaches.

He won't, but it would be in the best interests of guys like Jake and Cam to promote to other programs, if only to learn within those systems and diversify their knowledge base. I think there are clear flaws when a coach spends his entire career in one system. It seems to limit flexibility and the ability to coach differently based on roster and situation.

[tower912]

He won't, but it would be in the best interests of guys like Jake and Cam to promote to other programs, if only to learn within those systems and diversify their knowledge base. I think there are clear flaws when a coach spends his entire career in one system. It seems to limit flexibility and the ability to coach differently based on roster and situation.

Agree about the one system being a weakness.   Especially never having experienced true failure within that system.