If we don't have the money...

[f/k/a humanlung]

Not quite.  They hired Wojo without Strong knowing about it.

Ok, I wasn't sure.  Thanks for clarifying.

My follow-up question is then:  How tone deaf/clueless does this admin have to be to make a hire like Wojo without giving a heads up to a major donor the size of Dick Strong?

[The Sultan]

Ok, I wasn't sure.  Thanks for clarifying.

My follow-up question is then:  How tone deaf/clueless does this admin have to be to make a hire like Wojo without giving a heads up to a major donor the size of Dick Strong?

Well Lovell was new - like just a couple weeks into the gig.  So someone should have told him to circle back with Strong.  Cords possibly.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Well Lovell was new - like just a couple weeks into the gig.  So someone should have told him to circle back with Strong.  Cords possibly.

A big part was that Strong had a relationship with Lovell at UWM and pushed him for the MU job (felt the new President should know MKE, Wisconsin). And then he was cut out including the managing of MU funds.

Hitting him with his charity and business was not a formula for a successful relationship. 😂

[The Sultan]

A big part was that Strong had a relationship with Lovell at UWM and pushed him for the MU job (felt the new President should know MKE, Wisconsin). And then he was cut out including the managing of MU funds.

Hitting him with his charity and business was not a formula for a successful relationship. 😂

Ah that's interesting.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't this admin basically tell Dick Strong - the definition of a major supporter - to f-off when Strong indicated he did not want Wojo hired?

If so, I wonder what it will take for this admin to come around to your very logical view.

Not so. Strong was very pro-Howland. MU was not and was correct to be against him. He had massive skeletons in the closet and was...not a pleasant person to be around. There's a reason it took time for him to be hired and several high majors passed on him. Since he got to MSST he's done nothing to prove that he would have been successful here. Strong was not consulted on Wojo, which he may have taken as an "F-off", but he was only anti-Wojo in the sense that he wasn't Howland.

[cheebs09]

Not so. Strong was very pro-Howland. MU was not and was correct to be against him. He had massive skeletons in the closet and was...not a pleasant person to be around. There's a reason it took time for him to be hired and several high majors passed on him. Since he got to MSST he's done nothing to prove that he would have been successful here. Strong was not consulted on Wojo, which he may have taken as an "F-off", but he was only anti-Wojo in the sense that he wasn't Howland.

I believe Strong also threw his support behind Shaka. He was rumored to be on the plane to Virginia ( or supplied the plane).

I think it was smart to not go with Howland. I'm kind of curious, who would have been the best hire of that year?

[f/k/a humanlung]

Not so. Strong was very pro-Howland. MU was not and was correct to be against him. He had massive skeletons in the closet and was...not a pleasant person to be around. There's a reason it took time for him to be hired and several high majors passed on him. Since he got to MSST he's done nothing to prove that he would have been successful here. Strong was not consulted on Wojo, which he may have taken as an "F-off", but he was only anti-Wojo in the sense that he wasn't Howland.

Here's a follow up to my we-should-have-hired-Howland comment.

Howland's first year at Miss State was 2015/2016, while Wojo was 14/15 at MU.

I'm 14/15 MU and Mississippi State had identical 13-19 records, so that year is a push.

Comparing Wojo vs. Howland when both were in place, it's close:

Wojo:. 115 - 76
Howland:. 112 - 80

But... Looking back at what each inherited, I look back to Buzz's record vs. Mississippi State's record.

Buzz:. 139 - 69 (5 NCAA bids, 2 16s, 1 Elite 8)
MSU:. 122 - 100 (1 NCAA bid - in Buzz's first year at MU, 2 NITs)

Howland inherited a MUCH weaker program than Wojo.  It isn't even close.  Buzz missed the NCAAs once in six years. MSU made it once in six years.

[f/k/a humanlung]

Not so. Strong was very pro-Howland. MU was not and was correct to be against him. He had massive skeletons in the closet and was...not a pleasant person to be around. There's a reason it took time for him to be hired and several high majors passed on him. Since he got to MSST he's done nothing to prove that he would have been successful here. Strong was not consulted on Wojo, which he may have taken as an "F-off", but he was only anti-Wojo in the sense that he wasn't Howland.

As to Howland's skeletons, please don't think that we are immune to that at MU.  We just got lucky that some of the big ones happened in a different era.

Before I go on, I do not KNOW the following is truthful and if it is, how accurate the story is.  I DO know that the person I heard it from many years ago was:  1) a very high integrity individual, 2) not prone to hyperbole, and 3) well-respected and connected in the MU community.

With that out of the way...

Back in early '70s during Maurice Lucas' time at MU, apparently someone made the terrible mistake of using the "N"-word to Maurice.

Maurice responded as one would expect, not well.  The person who committed the offense found himself being held by his ankles out a window at McCormick Hall (I think it was McCormick but I cannot recall that detail).  The police were called and the police then called Al, who took care of it and smoothed things out.

Just out of curiosity, if that had happened at the same time that Howland had his issues at UCLA, do you think Al may have had some negative PR blowback?   Could it perhaps qualify as a "skeleton"?

I am not absolving Howland for letting the inmates run the asylum at UCLA but I said then and I say now that anyone can make a mistake.  And that mistake can either define them or lead them to do it better if given another chance.

Howland wanted to be here and - consistent with Jesuit teachings - should have been eligible for redemption.  Add in the fact that the guy has an enviable record of success, I felt than and feel now that he was a better risk than Wojo.

[Silent Verbal]

As to Howland's skeletons, please don't think that we are immune to that at MU.  We just got lucky that some of the big ones happened in a different era.

Before I go on, I do not KNOW the following is truthful and if it is, how accurate the story is.  I DO know that the person I heard it from many years ago was:  1) a very high integrity individual, 2) not prone to hyperbole, and 3) well-respected and connected in the MU community.

With that out of the way...

Back in early '70s during Maurice Lucas' time at MU, apparently someone made the terrible mistake of using the "N"-word to Maurice.

Maurice responded as one would expect, not well.  The person who committed the offense found himself being held by his ankles out a window at McCormick Hall (I think it was McCormick but I cannot recall that detail).  The police were called and the police then called Al, who took care of it and smoothed things out.

Just out of curiosity, if that had happened at the same time that Howland had his issues at UCLA, do you think Al may have had some negative PR blowback?   Could it perhaps qualify as a "skeleton"?

I am not absolving Howland for letting the inmates run the asylum at UCLA but I said then and I say now that anyone can make a mistake.  And that mistake can either define them or lead them to do it better if given another chance.

Howland wanted to be here and - consistent with Jesuit teachings - should have been eligible for redemption.  Add in the fact that the guy has an enviable record of success, I felt than and feel now that he was a better risk than Wojo.

In 2014, MU was looking for the exact opposite of Buzz.  Howland, after that damning Sports Illustrated article, was simply too close to Buzz.  That was the end of it for him, full stop.

For what it's worth, I would've rather had Howland, and wanted him after we missed on Shaka.  But it was never going to happen.

[Warrior Code]

In 2014, MU was looking for the exact opposite of Buzz.  Howland, after that damning Sports Illustrated article, was simply too close to Buzz.  That was the end of it for him, full stop.

For what it's worth, I would've rather had Howland, and wanted him after we missed on Shaka.  But it was never going to happen.

I agree with this. Wojo was unproven but spotless

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Here's a follow up to my we-should-have-hired-Howland comment.

Howland's first year at Miss State was 2015/2016, while Wojo was 14/15 at MU.

I'm 14/15 MU and Mississippi State had identical 13-19 records, so that year is a push.

Comparing Wojo vs. Howland when both were in place, it's close:

Wojo:. 115 - 76
Howland:. 112 - 80

But... Looking back at what each inherited, I look back to Buzz's record vs. Mississippi State's record.

Buzz:. 139 - 69 (5 NCAA bids, 2 16s, 1 Elite 8)
MSU:. 122 - 100 (1 NCAA bid - in Buzz's first year at MU, 2 NITs)

Howland inherited a MUCH weaker program than Wojo.  It isn't even close.  Buzz missed the NCAAs once in six years. MSU made it once in six years.

How is 3 NCAAT appearances (Wojo) and 1 NCAAT appearance (Howland) "close"?

[Steve Buscemi]

How is 3 NCAAT appearances (Wojo) and 1 NCAAT appearance (Howland) "close"?

Wojo doesn't have 3 NCAA appearances

[GooooMarquette]

Back in early '70s during Maurice Lucas' time at MU, apparently someone made the terrible mistake of using the "N"-word to Maurice.

Maurice responded as one would expect, not well.  The person who committed the offense found himself being held by his ankles out a window at McCormick Hall (I think it was McCormick but I cannot recall that detail).  The police were called and the police then called Al, who took care of it and smoothed things out.

Just out of curiosity, if that had happened at the same time that Howland had his issues at UCLA, do you think Al may have had some negative PR blowback?   Could it perhaps qualify as a "skeleton"?

If Al had been coaching in the 2010s (when Howland had his issues at UCLA), he would have been fired for some of the things that happened. Tackling Lloyd Walton in the locker room at the '74 Final Four? Exchanging punches with Bernard Toone?

I love Al and his legacy as much as anyone, but there is no way his style would have worked in this millennium.

[Silent Verbal]

Wojo doesn't have 3 NCAA appearances

Yeah, I don't know where he got that number from.  Wojo has two NCAA appearances.  Those are the facts, not some number that was thrown out there based on emotion.

[tower912]

The Maurice Lucas story is/was fairly well known.   Doesn't mean it is true.   

[f/k/a humanlung]

Reposted below.

[Steve Buscemi]

Yeah, I don't know where he got that number from.  Wojo has two NCAA appearances.  Those are the facts, not some number that was thrown out there based on emotion.

Some people here like to give him credit for last year but the fact is we closed the regular season with six losses in seven games. We likely would've laid an egg in the big East tourney. That, in addition to any bid stealers, would've put us in a similar position as the 2018 March madness, 18-13 and on the bubble. We were certainly NOT a lock.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Wojo doesn't have 3 NCAA appearances

Yeah, I don't know where he got that number from.  Wojo has two NCAA appearances.  Those are the facts, not some number that was thrown out there based on emotion.

Sigh.

Wojo has 2 NCAAT appearances and was considered a stone cold lock for a third NCAAT appearance, appearing in 100% of over 100 bracketologists projections prior to the NCAAT being cancelled by a global pandemic.

Do you see why someone might shorthand that to "3 NCAAT appearances" when everyone knows what is meant by it?

[#UnleashSean]

Are we arguing that Mississippi state is on the same level as Marquette?  Come on man.

[wadesworld]

Since we can't count the 2020 season as an NCAA Tournament appearance, at least we can celebrate the fact that Wojo has tied for the longest streak of most straight NCAA Tournament appearances in the country until Sunday.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

"Close" referred to the won/loss record that I put immediately below that statement.

What relevance does overall W-L record have if the teams played completely different levels of schedules?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Some people here like to give him credit for last year

Because he was the coach last year and the team played a full regular season and did more than enough to earn at an large bid.

but the fact is we closed the regular season with six losses in seven games.

Which isn't a factor considered by the selection committee

We likely would've laid an egg in the big East tourney.

So we're not allowed to say that we were a lock for the NCAAT when its backed up by facts, but we are allowed to assume the outcome of a game that was never played.

That, in addition to any bid stealers

It would have taken at least 7 bid-stealers out of a possible 9. Literally has never happened.

would've put us in a similar position as the 2018 March madness, 18-13 and on the bubble. We were certainly NOT a lock.

Only if you don't understand how NCAAT selection works.

[f/k/a humanlung]

Repost.

"Close" referred to the won/loss record that I put immediately below that statement.

We could also look at progress:

MU

2015/2016:  20-13, no post season
2016/2017:  19-13, NCAA 1st round loss (20 point loss to South Carolina)
2017/2018:  21-14, NIT quarters
2018/2019:  24-10, NCAA 1st round loss (19 point loss to Murray State)
2019/2020:  18-12, T6th in BE
2020/2021:  13-14, 8th in BE, 1st round BET loss, no post season

Mississippi State

2015/2016:  14-17, no post season
2016/2017:  16-16, no post season
2017/2018:  25-12, NIT semis
2018/2019:  23-11, NCAA 1st round loss (4pt loss to Liberty)
2019/2020:  20-11, T4th in SEC
2020/2021:  14-13, 9th in SEC, advanced to 2nd round of SEC tournament

Wojo beats Howland in NCAA bids, 2-1 (but considering MU's performance, I do not know if this is a good thing).

As far as trajectory, I would take Mississippi State over MU - especially considering the respective starting points.  As I posted previously, Wojo inherited a program that had been to the NCAAs in five of the prior six year, while Howland walked into one with one NCAA bid in the last six years (and that bid was six years prior to his arrival).

The W/L records are close but Howland has a lot tougher climb than Wojo.  In terms of post season, I will take any bet that you want to make regarding post-season success over whatever time period you want to cover.
[/quote]

[f/k/a humanlung]

Sigh.

Wojo has 2 NCAAT appearances and was considered a stone cold lock for a third NCAAT appearance, appearing in 100% of over 100 bracketologists projections prior to the NCAAT being cancelled by a global pandemic.

Do you see why someone might shorthand that to "3 NCAAT appearances" when everyone knows what is meant by it?

Why stop there?

Woo hoo!  We won another NCAA Championship!

Congrats everyone!!!!  We are Marquette!!!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Why stop there?

Woo hoo!  We won another NCAA Championship!

Congrats everyone!!!!  We are Marquette!!!

That's not backed up by facts. Us making the tournament is.