Valpo drops "Crusaders"

[4everwarriors]

Does this precedent likely mean Holy Cross has to change too?

Absolutely, we're goin' to all numbers for school mascots. In fact, the BOT will be considerin' droppin' the chicken, for our new identity...Marquette 69ers, hey?

[buckchuckler]

Baby steps, start taxing the religions. Then work on dissolving them.

Yup.  This is a great idea.  Countries that are godless never commit atrocities right?  Like China, and the Soviet Union.  Bastions of human rights. 

Maybe it has something more to do with human nature, and the way that some people have an insatiable proclivity towards power and greed, and they use whatever means necessary to manipulate others to their cause, which in the end usually has nothing to do with religion, it usually has everything to do with the quest for wealth and power.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

This is false.  Historically speaking, the Crusades were a response to Muslim armies besieging, sacking, destroying and the conquest of cities throughout the Holy Land.  The goal of the crusades was not to wipe out Islam, but to return cities that had been held by Christians to Christians. As the song goes, Istanbul was once Constantinople.  And after the siege (of Constantinople), there were literally tens of thousands of people enslaved.  The response that was the crusades, was people trying to help people they envisioned as brethren, not to wipe Islam off the Earth. 

History is mostly the ways in which humans treat other humans terribly.  There is no Race, Religion, or people that is free of the stain.  But we need to study history to see how we can be better, and to try to understand motivations and circumstances.  Making claims, based off, what something you read on twitter, aren't helpful.

Last week, I was coincidently reading about the Byzantine Empire. 
In the late 1000's Turks had been making repeated attacks against Byzantium.  The Byzantine Emperor reached out to the Pope for help despite the recent Great Schism.  The Pope agreed and the First Crusade was born.
It was a Byzantine & Western Church alliance.  Crusaders attacked the holy land to regain and the Byzantines kept the Turks busy up north.
By the 1200's the Crusaders got greedy and attacked and then sacked Constantinople instead of the heading to the holy land.  The Byzantine Empire was able to regroup afterwards, but it was never the same. 
In 1453, the Turks sieged Constantinople and finally took it ending the Eastern Roman Empire.  90% of Constantinople residents were sold into slavery by the Turks. 

[JWags85]

Jihad is not contemporary.  It has been a part of Islam since the foundations, and is included in the Quran.  The word has been widely interpreted by Islamic scholars for centuries.

Also, I'm not calling Jihadi's terrorists.  That was your red herring.

I should have clarified "jihadist".  Jihad is an Arabic word.  Thus, Arabic speakers wouldn't add "ist" to the end of the word in their own speaking. In the Quran or otherwise.  That's where it a contemporary and Western term.

[Hards Alumni]

I should have clarified "jihadist".  Jihad is an Arabic word.  Thus, Arabic speakers wouldn't add "ist" to the end of the word in their own speaking. In the Quran or otherwise.  That's where it a contemporary and Western term.

Okay, semantics it is. 

[muwarrior69]

Last week, I was coincidently reading about the Byzantine Empire. 
In the late 1000's Turks had been making repeated attacks against Byzantium.  The Byzantine Emperor reached out to the Pope for help despite the recent Great Schism.  The Pope agreed and the First Crusade was born.
It was a Byzantine & Western Church alliance.  Crusaders attacked the holy land to regain and the Byzantines kept the Turks busy up north.
By the 1200's the Crusaders got greedy and attacked and then sacked Constantinople instead of the heading to the holy land.  The Byzantine Empire was able to regroup afterwards, but it was never the same. 
In 1453, the Turks sieged Constantinople and finally took it ending the Eastern Roman Empire.  90% of Constantinople residents were sold into slavery by the Turks.

So people of color sold slaves?

[Hards Alumni]

So people of color sold slaves?

Yes of course, slavery still exists and isn't limited to one type of people.  But "SEE THEY DO IT TOO" isn't justification for anything.

[Galway Eagle]

So people of color sold slaves?

What is the point of this statement? Like you're clearly trying to make a point without saying it.

Everybody with an ounce of historical knowledge or hell biblical knowledge knows there's been slavery in Africa, Mediterranean empires, Asia, etc. but the only reason anyone tries to point it out is to say something without actually saying it.

[Hards Alumni]

What is the point of this statement? Like you're clearly trying to make a point without saying it.

Everybody with an ounce of historical knowledge or hell biblical knowledge knows there's been slavery in Africa, Mediterranean empires, Asia, etc. but the only reason anyone tries to point it out is to say something without actually saying it.

Yup exactly.

[🏀]

Maybe it has something more to do with human nature, and the way that some people have an insatiable proclivity towards power and greed, and they use whatever means necessary to manipulate others to their cause, which in the end usually has nothing to do with religion, it usually has everything to do with the quest for wealth and power.

Why you describing the Catholic church?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Why you describing the Catholic church?

And the Baptist church x2

[Galway Eagle]

And the Baptist church x2

pretty much everyone that isn't Lutheran

[buckchuckler]

nm

[buckchuckler]

nm

[dgies9156]

So when do we call for dumping the Fighting Irish????

It connotates an ethnic stereotype of Irish people inconsistent either with today's values or the history of the Irish people. The Notre Dame lexicon suggests Irish people all are aggressive and worship small mythical men. I'd suggest there is a stereotype of Irish people also being well-served, which leads to the concept of a leprechaun.

[The Sultan]

So when do we call for dumping the Fighting Irish????

It connotates an ethnic stereotype of Irish people inconsistent either with today's values or the history of the Irish people. The Notre Dame lexicon suggests Irish people all are aggressive and worship small mythical men. I'd suggest there is a stereotype of Irish people also being well-served, which leads to the concept of a leprechaun.

When are people going to demand to marry their pets?

[Galway Eagle]

So when do we call for dumping the Fighting Irish????

It connotates an ethnic stereotype of Irish people inconsistent either with today's values or the history of the Irish people. The Notre Dame lexicon suggests Irish people all are aggressive and worship small mythical men. I'd suggest there is a stereotype of Irish people also being well-served, which leads to the concept of a leprechaun.

For the record I've been demanding this for years since I was little and people would say "oh your moms from Ireland?! Go Notre Dame right?!" And didn't help when the short pale kid took up boxing and bagpiping

When are people going to demand to marry their pets?

While this was suppose to expose the slippery slope argument that was made during the gay marriage legislation it should be stated that people have tried to marry weird $hit

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So when do we call for dumping the Fighting Irish????

It connotates an ethnic stereotype of Irish people inconsistent either with today's values or the history of the Irish people. The Notre Dame lexicon suggests Irish people all are aggressive and worship small mythical men. I'd suggest there is a stereotype of Irish people also being well-served, which leads to the concept of a leprechaun.

Same time they ask UNC Pembroke to drop their mascot. Never.

It's different when the institution serves the population that is being depicted by the mascot.

[Galway Eagle]

Same time they ask UNC Pembroke to drop their mascot. Never.

It's different when the institution serves the population that is being depicted by the mascot.

Serving south side Chicago 5th generation potato famine families isn't serving the population depicted my friend.

[4everwarriors]

When are people going to demand to marry their pets?

Beastiality is already a thin' in parts of Wisconsin, aina?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Beastiality is already a thin' in parts of Wisconsin, aina?

Platteville:
Where the girls like girls and the boys like sheep.

[#UnleashSean]

Same time they ask UNC Pembroke to drop their mascot. Never.

It's different when the institution serves the population that is being depicted by the mascot.

?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

?

UNC Pembroke's mascot is the Braves. It is exempt from the NCAAs mandate on Native American imagery because UNC Pembroke is a traditional Native American serving institution. Notre Dame was a traditional Irish serving institution back when that meant something (it doesn't anymore). Today, a significant chunk (majority?) of their students are still of Irish descent thus the mascot isn't problematic in the same way that other mascots have been problematic.

Honestly, this conversation is completely separate from the Valpo conversation. The Valpo conversation is more similar to the confederate statues conversation.

[dgies9156]

UNC Pembroke's mascot is the Braves. It is exempt from the NCAAs mandate on Native American imagery because UNC Pembroke is a traditional Native American serving institution. Notre Dame was a traditional Irish serving institution back when that meant something (it doesn't anymore). Today, a significant chunk (majority?) of their students are still of Irish descent thus the mascot isn't problematic in the same way that other mascots have been problematic.

Honestly, this conversation is completely separate from the Valpo conversation. The Valpo conversation is more similar to the confederate statues conversation.

Brother TAMU, I was being a bit absurdist, I admit, and I actually agree with you on the "Crusaders" name. It represents a time in our Church's life when we put the temporal above the spiritual and we clearly loss sight of who and what we are as Christians. I'm not sure we want to advertise this and, to your point, it is offensive to our Muslim brothers and sisters. Highly offensive.

Perhaps we Catholics need to do the same thing rationale thinking southerners have done for a generation — look at our symbols and ask the question, what are we saying about ourselves? What are we communicating in our society?

That said, the Warriors needed to stay (but that fight is over, over, over).

[GooooMarquette]

UNC Pembroke's mascot is the Braves. It is exempt from the NCAAs mandate on Native American imagery because UNC Pembroke is a traditional Native American serving institution. Notre Dame was a traditional Irish serving institution back when that meant something (it doesn't anymore). Today, a significant chunk (majority?) of their students are still of Irish descent thus the mascot isn't problematic in the same way that other mascots have been problematic.

Honestly, this conversation is completely separate from the Valpo conversation. The Valpo conversation is more similar to the confederate statues conversation.

I couldn't find data on this, but I would be shocked to learn that anywhere near a majority of ND students are of Irish descent, at least within the past couple of generations.