Blue Jay Way

[4everwarriors]

You are being generous with the "still learning" comment.

Well, he's a slow learner, at best, aina?

[MU82]

3 BE level players

Hmmm. Maybe I have to re-think my call to fire Wojo now.

He beat Wisconsin and Creighton with only 3 Big East level players? He beat St. John's, one of the hottest teams in America, with only 3 Big East level players? He has managed to stay close to almost every team on the schedule with only 3 Big East level players?

Wojo must be a hell of a coach.

[CountryRoads]

  Don't accuse me of being a Markus apologist. I have said over and over how much I loved watching the defense-oriented KO teams. My favorite MU player of all time is Tony Miller, whose overall methodical game and style of play is almost diametrically opposed to a high-octane Star like Markus. When this season started on such a promising note, I was gleeful at watching so many guys getting involved on offense, and felt true team basketball was emerging. I bring this up because Markus was exactly who he had to be, for THAT team to have the best chance to win every single night. I don't begrudge him the fact that going forward, we would be playing more of a traditional "team" concept.

Markus played his role at an elite level and I'm not sure anyone could argue otherwise. It's just that the other top players on the team (and potential top players ie recruits) wanted no part of that philosophy and packed their bags and left town (or never got here in the first place). We were left with the players who were just happy to be here and "wanted to be warriors." We're paying the price for that this year as all of our upperclassmen are better suited as role players and not featured max minute starters.

[4everwarriors]

Well, if he is, Gannon College is waitin' on 'im, hey?

[MuggsyB]

Hmmm. Maybe I have to re-think my call to fire Wojo now.

He beat Wisconsin and Creighton with only 3 Big East level players? He beat St. John's, one of the hottest teams in America, with only 3 Big East level players? He has managed to stay close to almost every team on the schedule with only 3 Big East level players?

Wojo must be a hell of a coach.

Both Creighton and Whisky may struggle to be on the 5 line come tournament time. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

We're really good at defending the rim because we pack it in and allow teams to have almost any shot they want from outside. It's not a sustainable defensive strategy.

MU is bad on defense because of the extra trips we give up on offense. Usually it's turnovers. Yesterday it was rebounding as McD was trying to pull Theo out. 21st worst on giving up trips per possession.

Within 10 seconds after a steal, MU gives up a whopping eFG% of 66%. Off a MU score it's still a high 56% eFG% by our opponents. That's a transition D problem, not on Theo or the half court defense. The longer possession stats are much better. 

How many times did Creighton beat MU up the floor yesterday while our players pouted or delayed after a forced shot?

[CountryRoads]

Both Creighton and Whisky may struggle to be on the 5 line come tournament time.

Exactly, I'm looking at the Badgers schedule and they *should* stay a Q1 win but it's not a certainty. Certainly not the top 5 win that was touted at the time. Creighton was a nice win but would finish in the middle of the pack in most years in the Big East with that roster. Those two wins are no longer holding much weight on Selection Sunday, not that it would matter anyway at this point. 

[Viper]

feels like they played really bad but lost by 3. idk weird feeling from this one. nit bound

i doubt there's the NIT this year, just as I doubt MU finishes above .500 on the year

[GoldenWarrior11]

With 269 turnovers, we are 305th in the country.  We are 284th in FGA and 233rd in FGM.  In conference, we are 8th in total rebounding and 9th in 3PT shooting.  We have zero players averaging 15 ppg, and only four players averaging at least 10 ppg.  Theo is tied for third on the team in rebounding with Jamal at 5.8 per game (Dawson and Justin average more rebounds per game).

Look, no matter how the stats are presented, the team is just not good.  We are below average in many key areas.  Our four year players are better than where they were at as freshmen, yes; but they still are not good enough to be Big East-level competitors night-in and night-out.

[NorthernDancerColt]

MU is bad on defense because of the extra trips we give up on offense. Usually it's turnovers. Yesterday it was rebounding as McD was trying to pull Theo out. 21st worst on giving up trips per possession.

Within 10 seconds after a steal, MU gives up a whopping eFG% of 66%. Off a MU score it's still a high 56% eFG% by our opponents. That's a transition D problem, not on Theo or the half court defense. The longer possession stats are much better. 

How many times did Creighton beat MU up the floor yesterday while our players pouted or delayed after a forced shot?

Good points. I saw a bad sign yesterday. A guy who has been the definition of perseverance and good attitude, Greg pouted after a key missed 3. I feel for him so much. He's busted his butt so hard for so many years, under such hardship. He wants to win so bad, and felt he let his team down. It's one damn shot, Greg. Keep shooting, man. The let-down is never the missed shot, it's when we allow our attitude to sulk. I will never forget freshman Greg coming off the bench and reigning in a crazed Andrew Rowsey at UW-Madison. It spoke of his maturity and demeanor to notice something that may hurt our team and get in his teammate's face about it. Greg, thank you for being a Warrior.

[panda]

MU is bad on defense because of the extra trips we give up on offense. Usually it's turnovers. Yesterday it was rebounding as McD was trying to pull Theo out. 21st worst on giving up trips per possession.

Within 10 seconds after a steal, MU gives up a whopping eFG% of 66%. Off a MU score it's still a high 56% eFG% by our opponents. That's a transition D problem, not on Theo or the half court defense. The longer possession stats are much better. 

How many times did Creighton beat MU up the floor yesterday while our players pouted or delayed after a forced shot?

Yep that's correct. That coupled with the fact they allow teams to shoot a high volume of three pointers (due to packing the lane/sagging help defenders) is an unsustainable strategy. It's honestly dumbfounding.

[Viper]

Don't you know criticizing Markus is not allowed and punishable by death? Think about all of the titles and post-season success he brought us.

i'd look at it this way...Markus did all he could with a terd of a HC he had to work with.

[Galway Eagle]

Still on Woj. He wasn't able to recruit talent needed to win on this level. At most, he has 3 BE players on this roster, hey?

I'd argue he hasn't held on or developed the talent. He has no problem bringing it in. There's a slight bump in average recruit's rankings from Buzz to Wojo.

[panda]

I'd argue he hasn't held on or developed the talent. He has no problem bringing it in. There's a slight bump in average recruit's rankings from Buzz to Wojo.

*I posted this in another thread.

Rebuilding in college basketball takes one or two recruiting classes. Longer than that and questions should be asked of how you're cultivating your talent once they arrive on campus.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I'd argue he hasn't held on or developed the talent. He has no problem bringing it in. There's a slight bump in average recruit's rankings from Buzz to Wojo.

Agree with this. I think on a broader basis he hasn't, as Towers has said, made the team greater than the sum of its parts. Given some pretty good recruits, I would in fact say he has made the team less than the sum of its parts.

Maybe he will figure it our like Majerus did, but I don't think it will be at MU.

[MuggsyB]

With 269 turnovers, we are 305th in the country.  We are 284th in FGA and 233rd in FGM.  In conference, we are 8th in total rebounding and 9th in 3PT shooting.  We have zero players averaging 15 ppg, and only four players averaging at least 10 ppg.  Theo is tied for third on the team in rebounding with Jamal at 5.8 per game (Dawson and Justin average more rebounds per game).

Look, no matter how the stats are presented, the team is just not good.  We are below average in many key areas.  Our four year players are better than where they were at as freshmen, yes; but they still are not good enough to be Big East-level competitors night-in and night-out.

GoldenWarrior is spot on here.   Excellent post.

[Billy Hoyle]

Wow.  That's harsh.

I don't see him checked out at all.  He is an undersized and limited player who is prone to being undisciplined.  (Evidence...his continued hunting for blocks and his flagrant foul.)  Whether or not that's lack of coaching or him not listening is not really important to this debate.

But this is who John is.  He's never been a big rebounder.  If you go back in his history, he has numerous BE games where you will find "1" or "2" in the total rebound column.

Theo is what he is: a more offensively polished Faisal Abraham.

[wadesworld]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-bucks-built-the-nbas-best-defense-now-other-teams-are-copying-it/

People smarter than Scoopers don't think the strategy of packing the paint, protecting the rim, and giving up a lot of 3s is a bad one.

[wadesworld]

Also, this idea that Wojo couldn't get any talented players to Marquette while Markus was at Marquette is laughable. Markus was a class of 2016 recruit.

• Class of 2017 - most players make up their minds by early signing period in November. So before Markus has really played much college basketball at all.
• Class of 2018 - Markus's freshman season would not have scared anyone who wanted shots away. Also landed Joey and Brendan remained committed even though in theory he could've gone anywhere since he did not sign a LOI with the class of 2016. So very good glass despite having cancerous Markus
• Class of 2019 - mostly made their decisions really before Markus became the clear cut alpha at Marquette - pretty split between Markus and Rowsey (again, early signing period is in November, at the very start of the season). Class included 4 star guard Symir Torrence
• Class of 2020 - Markus is gone by the time they hit campus.

So only one recruiting class would've been aware that Markus would be shooting whenever he wanted by the time they signed up to play at Marquette. He'd be around for one of their four years. So MAYBE he hurt our 2019 recruiting class.

But the reality is our classes were no better or worse than what Wojo has brought in on average. Depending on the number of scholarships open, usually a higher four star, maybe another four star towards the back end of the top 100, and 1 or 2 three stars. Just like the class of 2021 is. So I guess the class of 2021 is still scared Markus will be eating all their shots.

[Jockey]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-bucks-built-the-nbas-best-defense-now-other-teams-are-copying-it/

People smarter than Scoopers don't think the strategy of packing the paint, protecting the rim, and giving up a lot of 3s is a bad one.

Except they were good at it.

[wadesworld]

Except they were good at it.

Right. But the idea that the philosophy is a bad basketball strategy appears to be wrong.

[Jockey]

Astounding stat.  He still hasn't figured out basic fundamental rebounding and not trying to block everything.

This team has some roster issues but is absolutely underachieving.

You're right, Muggs. The blocks are great, but when you try to block everything - you are always out of position for the rebound.

[panda]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-bucks-built-the-nbas-best-defense-now-other-teams-are-copying-it/

People smarter than Scoopers don't think the strategy of packing the paint, protecting the rim, and giving up a lot of 3s is a bad one.

Except MU consistently gets exposed on p&r's.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Except MU consistently gets exposed on p&r's.

And our transition defense.

[Billy Hoyle]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-bucks-built-the-nbas-best-defense-now-other-teams-are-copying-it/

People smarter than Scoopers don't think the strategy of packing the paint, protecting the rim, and giving up a lot of 3s is a bad one.

The NBA and college basketball are vastly different styles of basketball. Good effort though.