Blue Jay Way

[mileskishnish72]

The TV people made a big deal about the fact that the parents/family were at the game.
They pointed out that most of them had not seen their kids in six months.
I know I'm old and not welded to my cell, but every single time they showed the families, they were all on their phones, not watching the game. Maybe they have educated opinions about the product MU is putting out.

[rocky_warrior]

but every single time they showed the families, they were all on their phones, not watching the game.

Every single time they showed the families was also a timeout. 

[Billy Hoyle]

Of course not.  I'm implying that his absolute free reign and ultimate green light while he was here were wrong.  It caused dissension in the locker room and on the court during two different seasons (Koby and Joey).  Markus was a great player but Wojo allowing him to do whatever he wanted was damaging to the program.

Don't you know criticizing Markus is not allowed and punishable by death? Think about all of the titles and post-season success he brought us.

[Silent Verbal]

Don't you know criticizing Markus is not allowed and punishable by death? Think about all of the titles and post-season success he brought us.

Yep.  I absolutely do not think his number should be retired, but if Wojo is still here next year, I wouldn't be surprised if they rushed to do it.

[We R Final Four]

I heard Nick Bahe (I believe) suggest that Creighton may have the potential as a "final four sleeper."
This years team is soft is is more likely a first round exit than going on a 4 game tournament win streak.

[MU82]

Genius. We should never recruit anyone as good as Markus, who wound up in the top 30 or so career college scorers in history. Or if we do, we should injure them so that we can get recruits that might be a fraction of what he was. Plus, it's weird that he would affect recruiting at both guard and wing.

I've never seen a collection of malcontents to rival this. Recruit after recruit fails to meet their standard for one reason or another. Then when we strike the mother lode (that's Markus, for those of you who are slow), we blame him (a success) for our subsequent failures. Pathetic. Sad.

Thank you. Well said.

Of course not.  I'm implying that his absolute free reign and ultimate green light while he was here were wrong.  It caused dissension in the locker room and on the court during two different seasons (Koby and Joey).  Markus was a great player but Wojo allowing him to do whatever he wanted was damaging to the program.

That's not what you said. Your first words literally were, "You can thank Markus."

[Billy Hoyle]

I heard Nick Bahe (I believe) suggest that Creighton may have the potential as a "final four sleeper."
This years team is soft is is more likely a first round exit than going on a 4 game tournament win streak.

Not a chance. I don't think any BE team is final four material this season.

[dgies9156]

As Mike Ditka said about the 1989 Bears midway through the season: I dont think this team will win another game this season.

I just think the team, while it tries, is lost. The games they used to win in the last minute, they lose. The offense is woefully inconsistent, turnovers are killing us and the defense, while improved, still has a long way to go.

It is hard to invest a Saturday with this team. It has talent but has yet to figure out how to play as a team. There are shooting problems, I will admit, but there is no part of our team%u2019s game that is fundamentally solid.

I hope Wojo and the guys can turn it around, but this team is going nowhere and without a major off-season overhaul, next year has too high a probability of being a lost cause.

[MuggsyB]

Creighton and Nova have a major size issue and the Jays are poor defensively.  Realistically both teams have a small margin of error to make the F4. 

[We R Final Four]

Not a chance. I don't think any BE team is final four material this season.

Agreed. This is the year a 8/9/10/11 seed big ten team (gag) makes a run.
The Minnesotas and Illinois may go further than Garza

[MU82]

Agreed. This is the year a 8/9/10/11 seed big ten team (gag) makes a run.
The Minnesotas and Illinois may go further than Garza

You might be right about a couple of 8-9-10-11 seeds making a run.

Illinois is not going to be an 8-9-10-11, though. Wouldn't be stunning at all if Illinois made the Final Four.

[Silent Verbal]

That's not what you said. Your first words literally were, "You can thank Markus."

Fair point, I worded it poorly in the heat of the moment.  It was less Markus, and more Wojo allowing Markus to do what he did.  Either way, there is a huge drop off talent-wise after Garcia, Carton, and Lewis, and I believe Markus' usage during his time here is the reason why.  We simply were not able to recruit any other high level talent while he was here.

[MuggsyB]

You might be right about a couple of 8-9-10-11 seeds making a run.

Illinois is not going to be an 8-9-10-11, though. Wouldn't be stunning at all if Illinois made the Final Four.

Illinois seems to have pretty good balance.  They may be the most dangerous team in the B14.  Their center absolutely abused Potter and Reevers the few minutes I watched today.

[wadesworld]

Don't you know criticizing Markus is not allowed and punishable by death? Think about all of the titles and post-season success he brought us.

Feel free to criticize Markus all you want.  Also feel free to look like an idiot if you're going to claim it's Markus's fault that Marquette doesn't have talent on its roster.  This is like Lenny claiming Markus is why Brendan left Marquette early.  Because, you know, Brendan knew he'd never get any shots at Marquette because Markus would get all the shots...even though Markus had no eligibility remaining.

Yep.  I absolutely do not think his number should be retired, but if Wojo is still here next year, I wouldn't be surprised if they rushed to do it.

We retired Doc Rivers's jersey but we shouldn't retire the jersey of the all team leading scorer in the entire history of the Big East?

This place gets really whacky sometimes.

[Lennys Tap]

This is like Lenny claiming Markus is why Brendan left Marquette early.  Because, you know, Brendan knew he'd never get any shots at Marquette because Markus would get all the shots...even though Markus had no eligibility remaining.

Source? Please print the post in which  I said Brendan Bailey left Marquette because Markus Howard would be stealing his shots in a season after Markus had used up all of his eligibility. You're a liar.

[Lennys Tap]

This place gets really whacky sometimes.

Sure does. Never whackier than the time somebody claimed Coach Wojo would turn Marquette into Duke North. Unreal, huh?

[Silent Verbal]

Feel free to criticize Markus all you want.  Also feel free to look like an idiot if you're going to claim it's Markus's fault that Marquette doesn't have talent on its roster.  This is like Lenny claiming Markus is why Brendan left Marquette early.  Because, you know, Brendan knew he'd never get any shots at Marquette because Markus would get all the shots...even though Markus had no eligibility remaining.

We retired Doc Rivers's jersey but we shouldn't retire the jersey of the all team leading scorer in the entire history of the Big East?

This place gets really whacky sometimes.

So because we made a bad decision when we retired Doc Rivers' number, we should make more?  And being the all time leading scorer of a team, or even a conference, isn't what it used to be.  Back when every player used to stay 3-4 years in college, yes, it was quite an accomplishment.  But now the only players who become all-time leading scorers are guys like Markus, players who are too undersized for their position to leave for the NBA.  The fact that Lawrence Moten was the Big East's all time leading scorer before Markus tells you everything you need to know about that particular achievement.  Hell, Alando Tucker is Wisconsin's all time leading scorer.  He was a really good college player, but not exactly a Brendan Bailey-style all-timer.

And who, exactly, did we bring in during Markus' time who's any good?  You can't answer the question.  I'm sure you've realized that the talent drop off after Carton, Garcia, and Lewis is massive and a big reason why the team sucks this year.  We don't have any good players who've been in the program for more than a year.  I wonder why that is?  What was happening on the court the last three years that might've made high level recruits look elsewhere?

[wadesworld]

Source? Please print the post in which  I said Brendan Bailey left Marquette because Markus Howard would be stealing his shots in a season after Markus had used up all of his eligibility. You're a liar.

The source is you lol. I don't know what printing this post will do, but I'll quote it for you and save the paper. I guess if you want to DM me an address to send it to I can print it off.

The Hausers left to play in better programs led by better coaches. They were the only two of Markus's teammates who had that opportunity. Where were Theo or Ed going? Sacar? Bailey? Cain? Elliot? Answer: nowhere, though Ed eventually quit and Bailey left early to go "pro" (LOL).

Bottom line: nobody likes standing around watching someone dominate the ball. Markus (whether by Wojo's design or his inability to control his best player) dominated it like no other Power 6 player in the history of the statistic. IMHO, that's neither the best way to win games or the best way to keep a team together. Back to back seasons in which we collapsed when it counted most support that opinion.

[wadesworld]

So because we made a bad decision when we retired Doc Rivers' number, we should make more?  And being the all time leading scorer of a team, or even a conference, isn't what it used to be.  Back when every player used to stay 3-4 years in college, yes, it was quite an accomplishment.  But now the only players who become all-time leading scorers are guys like Markus, players who are too undersized for their position to leave for the NBA.  The fact that Lawrence Moten was the Big East's all time leading scorer before Markus tells you everything you need to know about that particular achievement.  Hell, Alando Tucker is Wisconsin's all time leading scorer.  He was a really good college player, but not exactly a Brendan Bailey-style all-timer.

And who, exactly, did we bring in during Markus' time who's any good?  You can't answer the question.  I'm sure you've realized that the talent drop off after Carton, Garcia, and Lewis is massive and a big reason why the team sucks this year.  We don't have any good players who've been in the program for more than a year.  I wonder why that is?  What was happening on the court the last three years that might've made high level recruits look elsewhere?

So you're going to double down on this idea that Markus is why Marquette isn't very good right now?

Marquette's class of 2021 doesn't look much different than most of any recruiting classes Wojo has brought in in the past. But I'm sure guys are scared Markus is somehow going to come back and eat up all their shots.

[Silent Verbal]

So you're going to double down on this idea that Markus is why Marquette isn't very good right now?

Marquette's class of 2021 doesn't look much different than most of any recruiting classes Wojo has brought in in the past. But I'm sure guys are scared Markus is somehow going to come back and eat up all their shots.

You still didn't answer the question of who we brought in while Markus was here who's any good.

[tower912]

It is similar to what happened with Henry.   Players today aren't going to come to a place where there is already a star at their position.    They want to play immediately.   Wojo missed out on forwards because recruits thought Henry, averaging 32 mpg and nearly 20/10, was going to be at MU for more than one year.     Wojo did not land another elite guard while Markus was here because they new Markus was a first team all american, was going to play 33 mpg and score 25+.     Elite guards don't want to play second fiddle.   This is human nature.   

[Lennys Tap]

The source is you lol. I don't know what printing this post will do, but I'll quote it for you and save the paper. I guess if you want to DM me an address to send it to I can print it off.

Ha, ha. My point was not that Bailey would have to continue playing with Markus if he stayed. My point was that after 2 years of playing for a coach who handed the ball to Markus and told everyone else to get out of the way he had had it. He (IMO) grew dispirited and left to play "pro" ball, even though it was obvious he was nowhere ready. And of course that's clear if you read the entire thread - I even concede later that Bailey leaving because of frustration over Wojo's style is an observation/opinion that some might find an overreach.

I'm not telling you anything you don't already know but for some reason your "thing" has never been honest conversation or debate. You'd rather pull stuff out of context and intentionally misconstrue. You do it with everyone who disagrees with you on any topic - politics, hoops, the Milwaukee Brewers, it doesn't matter. You look for fights and you fight dirty and dishonestly.

[4everwarriors]

Spot on, Lenny Man.

Woj figured the only way he had a chance here was to hook himself up to what little talent he brought in. Was never able to build a complete team. Ended up citing the bed when the Hauser's had more stones than Woj, hey?

[HutchwasClutch]

John with a modest and polite 2 boards in 27 minutes...would hate to see his numbers if he didn't "eat weights" 

And I remember one of those two Brando commented the easiest board he'll get all day because the carom went right in his lap.  He was getting beat all day off the dribble that directly led to baskets. The ridiculous elbow to the face that was completely intentional.

I used to like and support John. Now I think he's just a basic a$$hole who's checked out.  And his performance yesterday sure provides support for that opinion. He was an embarrassment in every respect. 

[muwarrior69]

It is similar to what happened with Henry.   Players today aren't going to come to a place where there is already a star at their position.    They want to play immediately.   Wojo missed out on forwards because recruits thought Henry, averaging 32 mpg and nearly 20/10, was going to be at MU for more than one year.     Wojo did not land another elite guard while Markus was here because they new Markus was a first team all american, was going to play 33 mpg and score 25+.     Elite guards don't want to play second fiddle.   This is human nature.

Then how does Jay Wright at Nova do it year in and year out?