Give Killings the Keys

[MU82]

click bait....sit down! lol

Learn the definition of "click bait."

Saying something not especially controversial in the middle of a fanboard thread and without its own headline doesn't meet most people's definitions of the term.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I'm sure candidates for the opening would love to hear about how we treated the old coach.

Honest question, besides scandal or the coach themselves making the decision to leave, has any modern college basketball program fired a coach mid-season and installed a "caretaker"?

[panda]

I'm sure candidates for the opening would love to hear about how we treated the old coach.

Honest question, besides scandal or the coach themselves making the decision to leave, has any modern college basketball program fired a coach mid-season and installed a "caretaker"?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/watchstadium.com/an-examination-of-midseason-coaching-changes-in-college-basketball-01-02-2019/amp/

[Silent Verbal]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/watchstadium.com/an-examination-of-midseason-coaching-changes-in-college-basketball-01-02-2019/amp/

Hilariously, the only two winning records for teams that had midseason coaching changes in the last twenty years belong to the Badgers, but as was stated in another thread, those were calculated moves by Bennett and Ryan to give "their guy" a shot at the big job.

Most interim coaches did not perform well for the remainder of the season, which figures, because the coach likely wouldn't have been dismissed if the team didn't suck.

[BigWilly77]

google is your friend: 
https://12thman.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/coaches/jamie-mcneilly/1303

Associate Head at TAMU? He's ascended the ranks quite nicely and I do like a guy who has been learning under Buzz for <11 seasons. #GTST

Don't want to be too vocal yet while we are still under the tutelage of Wojo but maybe a name to add to my internal shortlist in the future.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/watchstadium.com/an-examination-of-midseason-coaching-changes-in-college-basketball-01-02-2019/amp/

Thanks. I'm not sure I'd count John Groce and Anthony Grant count as "mid-season" as they were fired after the regular season. I had forgotten about Alford getting canned mid-season. So that leaves Alford as the only coach fired mid-regular season since former Marquette coach Kevin O'Neill in 2013.

Going back in order, UCLA seems to have made a good hire in Mick Cronin.

Illinois made a really good hire in Brad Underwood.

Alabama fired Avery Johnson after an uninspiring start in his first two seasons

USC likely has buyer's remorse with Andy Enfield.

Oliver Purnell sucked but it was DePaul so it's hard to blame him.

Mark Fox had a goodish run at Georgia though at one point he held the record for longest tenured P6 coach without consecutive tournament appearances.

Trent Johnson was fired from LSU after 4 unremarkable seasons.

Craig Robinson had 1 winning season in 6 seasons at Oregon State.

Tim Floyd did well at USC but was fired for rampant cheating.

Norm Roberts had 6 seasons at St. John's, he got 1 win above .500 twice and was sub .500 in the other 4.

Hard to blame the hires because they were taking over struggling programs, but the track record of firing coaches mid-season is not very good. I could be convinced that firing a coach after the regular season but before an NIT is smart to get a jump start on the coaching search.

[MU82]

I'm sure candidates for the opening would love to hear about how we treated the old coach.

Honest question, besides scandal or the coach themselves making the decision to leave, has any modern college basketball program fired a coach mid-season and installed a "caretaker"?

Illinois fired John Groce right after a first-round loss in the 2017 Big 14 tournament and hired assistant Jamall Walker as "caretaker" to coach the team during the NIT, where Illinois won 2 games.

Illinois then hired Brad Underwood, who had 2 rebuilding seasons (26-39 record, no postseason) before turning things around last year. Led by a couple of total studs, the Illini are B14 contenders this season.

That's probably the closest I could find to a situation -- and a preferred outcome -- that would resemble Marquette's if we fired Wojo any time between now and season's end.

It should be noted that Groce's record was considerably worse than Wojo's, as his teams got worse every season. He also was a weak recruiter.

[Galway Eagle]

Thanks. I'm not sure I'd count John Groce and Anthony Grant count as "mid-season" as they were fired after the regular season. I had forgotten about Alford getting canned mid-season. So that leaves Alford as the only coach fired mid-regular season since former Marquette coach Kevin O'Neill in 2013.

Going back in order, UCLA seems to have made a good hire in Mick Cronin.

Illinois made a really good hire in Brad Underwood.

Alabama fired Avery Johnson after an uninspiring start in his first two seasons

USC likely has buyer's remorse with Andy Enfield.

Oliver Purnell sucked but it was DePaul so it's hard to blame him.

Mark Fox had a goodish run at Georgia though at one point he held the record for longest tenured P6 coach without consecutive tournament appearances.

Trent Johnson was fired from LSU after 4 unremarkable seasons.

Craig Robinson had 1 winning season in 6 seasons at Oregon State.

Tim Floyd did well at USC but was fired for rampant cheating.

Norm Roberts had 6 seasons at St. John's, he got 1 win above .500 twice and was sub .500 in the other 4.

Hard to blame the hires because they were taking over struggling programs, but the track record of firing coaches mid-season is not very good. I could be convinced that firing a coach after the regular season but before an NIT is smart to get a jump start on the coaching search.

Norm roberts is a prime example of why you fire a coach when he's bad even if the next season is promising. That next year they had 11 upper class men 10 of whom were seniors return from an NIT team. they could have put a chimp on the sidelines and still made the NCAA tournament in 2011. But they still let him go because he was not getting it done at the moment nor had he previously.

[Billy Hoyle]

Illinois fired John Groce right after a first-round loss in the 2017 Big 14 tournament and hired assistant Jamall Walker as "caretaker" to coach the team during the NIT, where Illinois won 2 games.

Illinois then hired Brad Underwood, who had 2 rebuilding seasons (26-39 record, no postseason) before turning things around last year. Led by a couple of total studs, the Illini are B14 contenders this season.

There's a difference between elevating an assistant to finish the season and what WarriorFan is proposing - bringing in someone from the outside.

[Golden Avalanche]

Associate Head at TAMU? He's ascended the ranks quite nicely and I do like a guy who has been learning under Buzz for <11 seasons. #GTST

Don't want to be too vocal yet while we are still under the tutelage of Wojo but maybe a name to add to my internal shortlist in the future.

We got the Associate HC of the best program in the last 30 years ready to be burned in effigy and you're thinking the Associate HC of a basement SEC program would be a good replacement?

[MU82]

There's a difference between elevating an assistant to finish the season and what WarriorFan is proposing - bringing in someone from the outside.

I missed WarriorFan's post before. I don't think it's realistic to bring in an outside coach in the middle of a season. Matta could be the one and only exception, but it isn't gonna happen so the conversation isn't realistic.

I already have said that I think Wojo should be fired now and replaced on an interim basis by Killings.

[NCMUFan]

Give this program an enema and let's start fresh with some probiotics, aina?

That should do the trick. 

[MU82]

I'm sure candidates for the opening would love to hear about how we treated the old coach.

We will have treated Wojo fine, even if we fire him today.

Hired a guy with zero head-coaching experience - not even HS ball. Gave him a beautiful, new NBA arena and a wonderful practice/office facility. Gave him a huge budget that let him recruit nationally and take charter flights to all games. Gave him a 7-figure contract and then extended it. Gave him 7 years to lead us to success, keeping him even after the program took a step backward in 2017-18, sustained a player mutiny in 2018-19, and took another step back in 2019-20.

Coaches know it's a business. As long as MU honchos didn't bad-mouth Wojo on the way out (and probably even if they did), it wouldn't hurt our coaching search one iota IMHO. This happens all the time in college basketball and football.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

We will have treated Wojo fine, even if we fire him today.

I was referring to WarriorFan's suggestion of demoting him, taking away his office, etc. But if you don't think firing a coach mid-season in a sport where that is extremely rare wouldn't raise an eyebrow for potential candidates, you're not being honest. Keep in mind, that while the results have not been good, they haven't been bad either. We aren't talking about Groce at Illinois or KO at USC.

Again, I could be convinced that firing a coach after the regular season but before the NIT or other lower tournament is a good idea. Mid-regular season? Not so much.

[Billy Hoyle]

We got the Associate HC of the best program in the last 30 years ready to be burned in effigy and you're thinking the Associate HC of a basement SEC program would be a good replacement?

Look at the track record of Duke assistants. Just because they come from Duke doesn't mean they're destined to be successful. They have so many advantages at Duke no other program has and K doesn't give them much autonomy as assistants. Not that I would ever advocate for anyone associated with Buzz.  I want a proven head coach.

Duke assistants:
Amaker - mediocre at Seton Hall and Michigan, strong at Harvard (playing fast and loose there though)
Henderson - a disaster at Delaware
Snyder - flamed out at Mizzou, was sketchy as hell there
Dawkins - mediocre at Stanford, doing better at UCF
Capel - good at VCU, fired from Oklahoma, decent but not great at Pitt
Collins - one good year at Northwestern
Wojo - mediocre at MU

Bray is the only real success story and even he has been uneven at ND.  Plus, he had experience at programs other than Duke.

[hairy worthen]

I'm sure candidates for the opening would love to hear about how we treated the old coach.

Honest question, besides scandal or the coach themselves making the decision to leave, has any modern college basketball program fired a coach mid-season and installed a "caretaker"?

Wojo has been treated very well by the University and administration. He has been given enough time and resources to succeed. Fans are fans and will be idiots now and again. Coaches know that and know it comes with the territory and the money they are making. This isn't the local CYM league. One way to stop idiot fans? win games.

I think firing a coach before the season is over is the wrong move.

[Silent Verbal]

I was referring to WarriorFan's suggestion of demoting him, taking away his office, etc. But if you don't think firing a coach mid-season in a sport where that is extremely rare wouldn't raise an eyebrow for potential candidates, you're not being honest. Keep in mind, that while the results have not been good, they haven't been bad either. We aren't talking about Groce at Illinois or KO at USC.

Again, I could be convinced that firing a coach after the regular season but before the NIT or other lower tournament is a good idea. Mid-regular season? Not so much.

Wojo's results, this year, have been bad.  His teams also collapsed at the end of the previous two seasons.

For whatever reason, this "we treated Wojo poorly" narrative is pleasing to you.  I agree with everything MU82 said above; we gave Wojo the keys to a college basketball kingdom and plenty of time to get the job done, and he's been a failure.  If we move on after the season, no one can say we didn't give him every chance to prove himself.  Demoting him to mopping floors at the Al and moving his office to a bathroom stall while some other guy comes in to coach the team for the rest of the year is an idea so wild it's not even worth entertaining.  In the real world, if we fired him now or at the end of the year, it would not reflect poorly on us.  He's been given ample time, and he's made his bed.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Sigh, multiple people are jumping on this "how we treated the old coach" line. To explain again, that was not in reference to anything that has actually happened. I am not saying and have never said that Wojo has been treated poorly. The line is referencing WarriorFan's suggestion of demoting Wojo, taking away his office, and bringing in an outside guy to coach the team. It also refers to the idea of firing him midseason, again not something that has happened but something that is being suggested repeatedly.

[The Sultan]

Here is a list of coaches who have been fired, or who have otherwise left mid-season. 

https://watchstadium.com/an-examination-of-midseason-coaching-changes-in-college-basketball-01-02-2019/

Two observations:

1.  It happens more regularly than I would have thought.

2.  It seemingly has no bearing on the quality of coach hired afterward. 

Imagine firing ole Jerry Wainwright to get a head start on your coaching search, winning one in 15 with Tracy Webster as your interim....and then hiring Oliver Purnell.

[Nukem2]

Here is a list of coaches who have been fired, or who have otherwise left mid-season. 

https://watchstadium.com/an-examination-of-midseason-coaching-changes-in-college-basketball-01-02-2019/

Two observations:

1.  It happens more regularly than I would have thought.

2.  It seemingly has no bearing on the quality of coach hired afterward. 

Imagine firing ole Jerry Wainwright to get a head start on your coaching search, winning one in 15 with Tracy Webster as your interim....and then hiring Oliver Purnell.

A lot of these have back stories to them other than record.

[MU82]

Sigh, multiple people are jumping on this "how we treated the old coach" line. To explain again, that was not in reference to anything that has actually happened. I am not saying and have never said that Wojo has been treated poorly. The line is referencing WarriorFan's suggestion of demoting Wojo, taking away his office, and bringing in an outside guy to coach the team. It also refers to the idea of firing him midseason, again not something that has happened but something that is being suggested repeatedly.

Sorry that I misinterpreted your response to WF.

WF's suggestion of what to do with Wojo was either way over-the-top sarcasm or complete idiocy because obviously it would never, ever, ever, ever, ever happen, at Marquette or anywhere else.

So I never even considered it when I first read your response.

I would rather fire Wojo today, replace him with Killings on an interim basis and get going on the hiring search. I don't think it would hurt us in the eyes of legit candidates at all, so we'll agree to disagree there. But yes, I realize that waiting till the end of a season is more common, so I wouldn't have a problem with it -- not that anyone from Marquette is asking me, you or any other Scooper.

And then there's this: Even if we don't win another game this season, Wojo will be back next season IMHO.

COVID, $$$, recruits, whatever, will be the justifications. So all of this is just fartin' into the wind. But hey, what else are we supposed to talk about now that all but the biggest optimists in Scoopdom know that this season is going nowhere?

[1SE]

Wojo's results, this year, have been bad.  His teams also collapsed at the end of the previous two seasons.

For whatever reason, this "we treated Wojo poorly" narrative is pleasing to you.  I agree with everything MU82 said above; we gave Wojo the keys to a college basketball kingdom and plenty of time to get the job done, and he's been a failure.  If we move on after the season, no one can say we didn't give him every chance to prove himself. Demoting him to mopping floors at the Al and moving his office to a bathroom stall while some other guy comes in to coach the team for the rest of the year is an idea so wild it's not even entertaining.  In the real world, if we fired him now or at the end of the year, it would not reflect poorly on us.  He's been given ample time, and he's made his bed.

Why? He makes twice as much as Lovell. What's our return? If he's too fixated on getting paid to resign if he were asked to (or too willfully blind to how medicore he's been) I'd have no problem asking him to mop floors to get his paycheck. I'm sure his contract has an "other duties" clause. If he doesn't like it he can quit.

[The Sultan]

Why? He makes twice as much as Lovell. What's our return? If he's too fixated on getting paid to resign if he were asked to (or too willfully blind to how medicore he's been) I'd have no problem asking him to mop floors to get his paycheck. I'm sure his contract has an "other duties" clause. If he doesn't like it he can quit.

Because that's not the norm for this industry.  You pay the buy out and move on OR you fire him for cause if he broke NCAA regulations or something like that.  And since that didn't happen, you just pay up.

[Lennys Tap]

Why? He makes twice as much as Lovell. What's our return? If he's too fixated on getting paid to resign if he were asked to (or too willfully blind to how medicore he's been) I'd have no problem asking him to mop floors to get his paycheck. I'm sure his contract has an "other duties" clause. If he doesn't like it he can quit.

Maybe we should take away his MU gear and make him coach in a plain white tshirt.

[WarriorFan]

If he's such a great guy and strong asset to the university then put him in as a deputy AD or chief of fund-raising.  There is no evidence, by the way, that he's not a great guy.

What he is not, is a good basketball coach.  In business sometimes you run into 'unfireable' people so you just put them into a nothing job where they can't hurt anything until they leave.  Sometimes that costs less money than firing them. 

My main point is that it's better to make the change now.  More time for the hiring process and more time for recruiting.  The buy out is large and untimely, therefore re-deploy him.

Heck, ask Megan Duffy to coach both programs for the rest of the year.  She's a better coach than Wojo.