The Hey its 2021 now guys MLB thread

[MuggsyB]

I guess it's just the era but I feel bad for the guy if he was fine in the 9th.  I don't see how 125-30 pitches really risks anything.  If there was a few games left in the season I would understand. I suppose this is the normal decision for today but disagree with the obsession over the pitch count as well as the "save for the postseason" narrative.

[MU82]

If you take him out, some fans whine about a lost no-hitter opportunity. But then tomorrow comes and who cares?

If you leave him in and he gets hurt, you’ll never live it down as a manager.

It was an easy, obvious decision.

[MuggsyB]

If you take him out, some fans whine about a lost no-hitter opportunity. But then tomorrow comes and who cares?

If you leave him in and he gets hurt, you’ll never live it down as a manager.

It was an easy, obvious decision.

Why would he get hurt?   That's why it's an easy decision?  Because he'd get hurt throwing 10-15 more pitches? 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Why would he get hurt?   That's why it's an easy decision?  Because he'd get hurt throwing 10-15 more pitches?

Certainly a possibility. Once you get into the triple digits, the likelihood for injury increases significantly with each pitch. Sure, it's not a guarantee he gets hurt if he throws 10-15 more pitches, but it is at least a moderate risk. Given that the Crew have legitimate World Series hopes, probably the right call not to risk the injury. If they were out of contention, maybe Couns lets Burnes go for it.

There's only one player this season averaging over 100 pitches an outing (Zach Wheeler). Second is Gerrit Cole at 98.7. Only 11 pitchers are averaging 95 or more pitches a game and only 28 average 90 or more pitches a game (one of them being Burnes). I'm not certain what the highest pitch count in a game is this season, but the highest pitch count in a solo no hitter this season is 117. Wouldn't be surprised if that's the most any pitcher has thrown in a game this season. Also, this was Burnes' career high for pitches in a game. Plus, this is Burnes' first full season as a starter. The most he's ever pitched in a season before this one was 59.66 innings. He's pitched 152 this season.

[Mutaman]

I guess it's just the era but I feel bad for the guy if he was fine in the 9th.  I don't see how 125-30 pitches really risks anything.  If there was a few games left in the season I would understand. I suppose this is the normal decision for today but disagree with the obsession over the pitch count as well as the "save for the postseason" narrative.

In 2012 Johan Santana was one of the best pitchers in baseball when the Mets let him throw 134 pitches in a no-hitter. He was never the same pitcher again. I suspect Counsel knows what he is doing. 

[jsglow]

Burnes had to lobby like hell just to get the 8th.  He wasn't getting the 9th.

Couns is by far and away the best manager in Crew history and certainly one of the best in the game today.  This was an easy call and the questioning armchairs are just flat out wrong.  Nobody on the Brewers is going to be unnecessarily stressed when they have a 13 game lead.  Couns even admitted post game that in different circumstances (like if they sucked and weren't going anywhere) he might have thought a little differently.

[HutchwasClutch]

In 2012 Johan Santana was one of the best pitchers in baseball when the Mets let him throw 134 pitches in a no-hitter. He was never the same pitcher again. I suspect Counsel knows what he is doing.

Uhhh...Santana was 33 and missed the entire previous season due to shoulder surgery when he pitched his 2012 no hitter with 134 pitches.  That outing maybe, likely finished his career, that was his last season and it didn’t end well, but his pitching days were already seriously numbered. 

Burnes is 26, with no arm injury history in his life.  So comparing him getting near or into the 130 range (which I’m no longer arguing is a good idea) and Santana is apples and oranges on steroids.

Kershaw had a 132 pitch outing in 2013 and has been spectacular and without arm problems until his forearm inflammation issue 8 years later (clearly nothing to do with an outing over 8 years ago).

This is not a one size fits all issue. Some guys just have very durable arms that can take very high usage. Others don’t. You just never know at the time. That’s why it was the right call to take him out after the 8th last night and not jeopardize the rest of this season or his career.

[HutchwasClutch]

Also, this was Burnes' career high for pitches in a game. Plus, this is Burnes' first full season as a starter. The most he's ever pitched in a season before this one was 59.66 innings. He's pitched 152 this season.

All very good points.

[MuggsyB]

Interesting points but let me ask two questions:

Why did he come out for the 8th inning?

Would he have come out for the 9th if he had 19 strikeouts or a perfect game in tact?

I'm not saying it's the wrong decision by the manager but more that I feel for Burnes and think he should have be given the opportunity. 

[MU82]

Why would he get hurt?   That's why it's an easy decision?  Because he'd get hurt throwing 10-15 more pitches?

You have a no-hitter going. You're trying to be perfect on every pitch. You're trying to throw your fastball harder than ever. You've already thrown by far a career high in pitches, meaning your arm already is in uncharted territory. There's significant physical stress.

So yes, he could get hurt throwing 10 or 15 more pitches.

And on top of that, he's an ace for a team that's hoping to win a championship.

It was an easy, obvious decision for Counsell. I'm glad he put the health of the pitcher, and the goals of the team, ahead of an individual accomplishment.

[BM1090]

Interesting points but let me ask two questions:

Why did he come out for the 8th inning?

Would he have come out for the 9th if he had 19 strikeouts or a perfect game in tact?

I'm not saying it's the wrong decision by the manager but more that I feel for Burnes and think he should have be given the opportunity.

Hoping for a 5 pitch 8th.

No. Yes.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Interesting points but let me ask two questions:

Why did he come out for the 8th inning?

Would he have come out for the 9th if he had 19 strikeouts or a perfect game in tact?

I'm not saying it's the wrong decision by the manager but more that I feel for Burnes and think he should have be given the opportunity. 

I think you care about this more than Burnes does.

[MuggsyB]

I think you care about this more than Burnes does.

I think everyone if they were in his position would care.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Actually no.  If Burnes trusts his coaches and the Brewers organization, he would understand completely why they did this.

[cheebs09]

Actually no.  If Burnes trusts his coaches and the Brewers organization, he would understand completely why they did this.

Yea, I think he was kind of chuckling that he had to really push for the 8th. He didn’t seem like a guy that was pissed at being pulled.

10 years ago, maybe. But I think there’s a decent chunk of managers that would have pulled him.

On a side note, how awesome has the development of Burnes been? I won’t lie, when he was giving up homers at a rate where I thought maybe I had a chance to put one out of the park on him, I had my doubts he’d get it back. He worked his butt off and is a legit Cy Young candidate, maybe even the leader.

[jsglow]

Interesting points but let me ask two questions:

Why did he come out for the 8th inning?

Would he have come out for the 9th if he had 19 strikeouts or a perfect game in tact?

I'm not saying it's the wrong decision by the manager but more that I feel for Burnes and think he should have be given the opportunity.

He came out for the 8th because he was right at the edge of Counsell's comfort zone and if he had gotten through it with 4-6 pitches Couns might have given him a shot.  The manager even said so.

And do not diminish Counsell's desire to put Hader in a 'max stress' situation.  This was healthy for the whole team in mid September.  Nobody thinks twice about this if rings get handed out.

[DegenerateDish]

It was both the right decision to take him out and lame (because it’s cool to see a guy get rewarded for busting his a$$ and make history for himself).

[MuggsyB]

Excuse my ignorance but will the Brewers play Atlanta and then SF/LA play the winner of the two wild cards? 

[HutchwasClutch]

It was both the right decision to take him out and lame (because it’s cool to see a guy get rewarded for busting his a$$ and make history for himself).

So you would have been right and lame like Counsell, or wrong and bold? Because you have to choose one side if that’s how you’re going to break this decision down to. 

It was the right call based on the totality of the situation for Burnes and the team. It wasn’t lame. 

[HutchwasClutch]

Excuse my ignorance but will the Brewers play Atlanta and then SF/LA play the winner of the two wild cards?

Yes, presuming Brewers don’t catch the West division champ.

[MuggsyB]

Yes, presuming Brewers don’t catch the West division champ.

They would be in a better position if they don't catch them. 

[HutchwasClutch]

They would be in a better position if they don't catch them.

Absolutely

[cheebs09]

The Brewers have a possibly interesting scenario with their final series against LA. Most likely the Brewers would have the 2 seed locked up, but the West could be undecided. I would think you’d try to get the Dodgers into the Wild Card game, but do you at the expense of resting guys?

[Jockey]

The Brewers have a possibly interesting scenario with their final series against LA. Most likely the Brewers would have the 2 seed locked up, but the West could be undecided. I would think you’d try to get the Dodgers into the Wild Card game, but do you at the expense of resting guys?

I don’t know if that will matter. Every day guys are going to get their rest the next couple weeks, but I imagine they will all play the last few games to be ready for the playoffs (don’t forget there will be several days off before the 1st playoff game).

As for the pitchers, they will be set for Byrnes, Woody, and Peralta in the 1st three games. So they may throw them against LA, but have them on a strict pitch count.

[DegenerateDish]

So you would have been right and lame like Counsell, or wrong and bold? Because you have to choose one side if that’s how you’re going to break this decision down to. 

It was the right call based on the totality of the situation for Burnes and the team. It wasn’t lame.

The amount of angst some of you guys have over this is really weird.