The Hey its 2021 now guys MLB thread

[Jockey]

Should Devin Funchess have been released by the Packers after recently telling reporters he can tell they're smiling through their masks because their eyes get all "ch*nky"? 

He was reprimanded by the Packers, nothing more, and it was barely covered anywhere, especially after the Packers reprimand the day after the remarks.

You ok how that was handled?

He did not have a history of this. As I said, if someone says something stupid and then apologizes, I am fine.

If someone has a long history and then issues an apology putting the onus on those he offended, yes, he should be canned.

[jficke13]

Should Devin Funchess have been released by the Packers after recently telling reporters he can tell they're smiling through their masks because their eyes get all "ch*nky"? 

He was reprimanded by the Packers, nothing more, and it was barely covered anywhere, especially after the Packers reprimand the day after the remarks.

You ok how that was handled?

Maybe? I actually wasn't expressing much of an opinion as to whether Morris should be canned (I don't know him, his reputation, or the severity of 'offense' associated with what he said given who I am and the communities with which I am familiar). I was more trying to get at the "why cape for the Tigers' color guy on a message board?" thing. As in, what precisely motivates someone to leap to the defense of a rich stranger accused of some degree of racial insensitivity?

[JWags85]

accused of some degree of racial insensitivity?

I don't care if Morris gets fired or not.  I'm certainly not going to defend some old dude who is likely set in his ways.  But I was struck, yet again, how nobody seems to know how to differentiate between racially insensitive and racist anymore.

It was a dumb tone deaf statement/phrasing.  And he absolutely should have apologized.  But he didn't use a slur.  He didn't use some terrible stereotype about Ohtani, etc...

I always feel like the dialouge about this kind of stuff could get less bombastic in a hurry if an aggressive lightning rod designation of "racist" wasn't automatically slapped on everything that wasn't correct or acceptable pertaining to race or a group.

I think Funchess' statement was benign in intent and likely a key learning moment, but at least there was a racist slur in the core to get the label.

[Jockey]

I don't care if Morris gets fired or not.  I'm certainly not going to defend some old dude who is likely set in his ways.  But I was struck, yet again, how nobody seems to know how to differentiate between racially insensitive and racist anymore.

Your last statement is spot on. He obviously was trying to be funny but his statement showed insensitivity. As a one off, no big deal. Apologize, move on, and ignore the Twitterverse.

I don't think it was a one off, though.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It was a dumb tone deaf statement/phrasing.  And he absolutely should have apologized.  But he didn't use a slur.  He didn't use some terrible stereotype about Ohtani, etc...

He did use a stereotype. The voice he used is a stereotype for those of Asian descent.

I don't care if Morris gets fired or not.  I'm certainly not going to defend some old dude who is likely set in his ways.  But I was struck, yet again, how nobody seems to know how to differentiate between racially insensitive and racist anymore.

I always feel like the dialouge about this kind of stuff could get less bombastic in a hurry if an aggressive lightning rod designation of "racist" wasn't automatically slapped on everything that wasn't correct or acceptable pertaining to race or a group.

I used to think this way. I used to always make an effort to meet people where they were at. If they were uncomfortable with the term racist, I would switch to racially biased.

I do this less now, because what I found is that over time, those people who were grateful that I didn't say racist and said racially biased instead...started to use the same arguments they did about labeling something racist whenever I said racially biased. "Come on, that wasn't biased. I'm not a biased person. I was maybe insensitive but I wasn't biased." My guess is that if I switched to insensitive, they'd eventually complain about that too.

In my experience, arguing about what to label something, is usually just a tool to distract from the fact that  something problematic was done/said.

It's honestly a fascinating topic. Because in a way people being accused for racism are trying to say that racism is a bigger deal and those accusing others of racism are actually saying it's a lesser deal. The problems come up when either A) Those who want to make it a bigger deal then use that to dismiss all the lesser concerns or B) Those who want to make it a lesser deal try to treat those accused of low-level racism (i.e. making a single racially insensitive comment) the same as the accused of high-level racism (white supremacists).

I've jokingly said that we need a leveling system like they have in law. Racism in the first is reserved for the white supremacists. Racism in the 5th is for everyday microagressions.

[JWags85]

He did use a stereotype. The voice he used is a stereotype for those of Asian descent.

I dont want to split hairs, but its not like Ohtani is an Asian American who grew up in Cali, or Washington, or even Hawaii like Kolten Wong.  He's Japanese and has an accent, like any Asian person growing up in Asia who speaks English as second language.  If someone talked with a British accent during an Andy Murray tennis match or did some terrible impression of an African accent about Embiid, it wouldn't be a stereotype, it would be imitating their accent, no?

I used to think this way. I used to always make an effort to meet people where they were at. If they were uncomfortable with the term racist, I would switch to racially biased.

I do this less now, because what I found is that over time, those people who were grateful that I didn't say racist and said racially biased instead...started to use the same arguments they did about labeling something racist whenever I said racially biased. "Come on, that wasn't biased. I'm not a biased person. I was maybe insensitive but I wasn't biased." My guess is that if I switched to insensitive, they'd eventually complain about that too.

In my experience, arguing about what to label something, is usually just a tool to distract from the fact that  something problematic was done/said.

It's honestly a fascinating topic. Because in a way people being accused for racism are trying to say that racism is a bigger deal and those accusing others of racism are actually saying it's a lesser deal. The problems come up when either A) Those who want to make it a bigger deal then use that to dismiss all the lesser concerns or B) Those who want to make it a lesser deal try to treat those accused of low-level racism (i.e. making a single racially insensitive comment) the same as the accused of high-level racism (white supremacists).

I've jokingly said that we need a leveling system like they have in law. Racism in the first is reserved for the white supremacists. Racism in the 5th is for everyday microagressions.

Fair points all around.  But again, I think the "racially biased" is even different than insensitive.  My Grandma, until recently thankfully, still called Asian people "Oriental".  There was nothing racist behind it, and she had no bias against them, it was just an racially insensitive, dated term.

I guess its more a boy who cried wolf thing for me.  I'm not even talking about the feelings of the person, like Morris in this case, who did the offense.  I'm talking more the peripheral discussion about what is wrong about it to try and affect change or alter people's ways of thinking.  If every race related misstep is branded "RAYCESS", its easy to to stick to the "I'm not calling anyone the N word or assuming all Latino immigrants are lazy and untrustworthy, it was just a joke, people are too sensitive these days" safe space.  That sort of label just shuts everything down IMO. 

[The Sultan]

Imitating how Asian Americans talk in a stereotypical manner is racist. Period. Sorry if I don't want to soft-sell that because someone needs a teachable moment.

I mean holy sh*t, how does anyone not know that?

To be clear, I am talking about Morris in a television booth here. I don't think your grandmother should be broadcasting TV games either.

[MU82]

Suspended indefinitely.

[GB Warrior]

Cardinals Devil Magic wore off in the 10th tonight.

[CreightonWarrior]

"Lance Lynn ejected after throwing belt at umpire"

2020 me has so many questions.

[jsglow]

Now that we're talking baseball again, last night's game had a playoff feel to it by all accounts.  No doubt the Cards have been playing well and have half an eye on a Wild Card spot with the way San Diego has been faltering.  But the Crew would have none of it, even with Freddie having to leave the game early.  Contributions from every single guy on the roster who, to a man, absolutely believe this team is special.

I think they have a real shot to do what hasn't been done in Milwaukee since 1957.  Far from guaranteed of course, but a legitimate shot.  If that turns out to be true, you heard it here first.

Oh, and thanks to the Iowa Cubs these past couple days.

[WI_Inferiority_Complexes1]

Ohtani hit his 40th home run and pitched 8 innings last night. He's turning into the most unbelievable ball player if I've ever seen.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I dont want to split hairs, but its not like Ohtani is an Asian American who grew up in Cali, or Washington, or even Hawaii like Kolten Wong.  He's Japanese and has an accent, like any Asian person growing up in Asia who speaks English as second language.  If someone talked with a British accent during an Andy Murray tennis match or did some terrible impression of an African accent about Embiid, it wouldn't be a stereotype, it would be imitating their accent, no?

No. Just no. On air journalists should not use any accent other than their own while broadcasting.

Fair points all around.  But again, I think the "racially biased" is even different than insensitive.  My Grandma, until recently thankfully, still called Asian people "Oriental".  There was nothing racist behind it, and she had no bias against them, it was just an racially insensitive, dated term.

I guess its more a boy who cried wolf thing for me.  I'm not even talking about the feelings of the person, like Morris in this case, who did the offense.  I'm talking more the peripheral discussion about what is wrong about it to try and affect change or alter people's ways of thinking.  If every race related misstep is branded "RAYCESS", its easy to to stick to the "I'm not calling anyone the N word or assuming all Latino immigrants are lazy and untrustworthy, it was just a joke, people are too sensitive these days" safe space.  That sort of label just shuts everything down IMO.

I think it's problematic to quickly label others A racist. Labeling individual actions, statements, etc. as racist is different. Quick use of the noun is a problem, quick use of the verb is less so IMO. The problem we get is that the adjective racist for some covers the whole spectrum, from minor microagressions to hate crimes. For others, it is a word that should only be reserved for the worst of the worst...and even then you have to "know the person's heart" in order to attach the label to the action. The first definition is much more correct than the second one.

[WI_Inferiority_Complexes1]

"Lance Lynn ejected after throwing belt at umpire"

I think we just found out how to get around MLB's stupid 3-batter rule. Bring in a LOOGY, and after he gets the LH out, just have him throw his belt at Joe West. Problem solved.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Now that we're talking baseball again, last night's game had a playoff feel to it by all accounts.  No doubt the Cards have been playing well and have half an eye on a Wild Card spot with the way San Diego has been faltering.  But the Crew would have none of it, even with Freddie having to leave the game early.  Contributions from every single guy on the roster who, to a man, absolutely believe this team is special.

I think they have a real shot to do what hasn't been done in Milwaukee since 1957.  Far from guaranteed of course, but a legitimate shot.  If that turns out to be true, you heard it here first.

Oh, and thanks to the Iowa Cubs these past couple days.

We never stopped talking about baseball Glow. Race is a part of everything, even baseball.

But I am amazed how quickly this turned from, the NL wildcard is set with the Reds having an outside shot at catching the Padres into 6 teams (one of whom will win the NL East) have a legitimate shot at a wildcard berth. Maybe the Cardinals did make a good trade *ducks*

[dgies9156]

Now that we're talking baseball again, last night's game had a playoff feel to it by all accounts.  No doubt the Cards have been playing well and have half an eye on a Wild Card spot with the way San Diego has been faltering.  But the Crew would have none of it, even with Freddie having to leave the game early.  Contributions from every single guy on the roster who, to a man, absolutely believe this team is special.

I think they have a real shot to do what hasn't been done in Milwaukee since 1957.  Far from guaranteed of course, but a legitimate shot.  If that turns out to be true, you heard it here first.

Oh, and thanks to the Iowa Cubs these past couple days.

Brother Glow,

The Cardinals have been playing well as of late because they had three games against Pittsburgh and six against the Kansas City Royals. Had they played the Iowa/Wrigley Cubs instead of the Brewers, that streak would have been longer and stronger.

The Cardinals lack cohesiveness, a bullpen that does something other than pour gasoline into an opponent's run scoring machine and they don't play station-to-station baseball. Not to mention Flaherty was out a good part of the season and Dakota Hudson had Tommy John surgery. Injuries are a part of any major league season but the Cardinals haven't plugged the holes caused by the loss of Flaherty and Hudson.

This Cardinal team is like the 1980s Cardinals -- holes everywhere. They have about as much chance at the Wildcard as the Iowa/Wrigley Cubs do.

All this from a hard core Cardinal fan too!

[GB Warrior]

I think we just found out how to get around MLB's stupid 3-batter rule. Bring in a LOOGY, and after he gets the LH out, just have him throw his belt at Joe West. Problem solved.

This is amazing, and I cannot wait for Craig Counsell to deploy this in Game 7 of the NLCS

[WI_Inferiority_Complexes1]

This Cardinal team is like the 1980s Cardinals -- holes everywhere.

I think you're thinking of the 90's Cardinals, who outside of '96 never finished better than 10 GB.

There are a lot of very bad baseball teams right now, (Cubs, Orioles, Pirates, DBacks, most of the AL Central), which is allowing mediocre teams go on winning streaks. It happens every season.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Ohtani hit his 40th home run and pitched 8 innings last night. He's turning into the most unbelievable ball player if I've ever seen.

I'm surprised MLB is not putting the Angels in the 2022 Field of Dreams game, so they can showcase Ohtani.

[JWags85]

No. Just no. On air journalists should not use any accent other than their own while broadcasting.

FWIW, I wasn't saying anyone should.   Its hacky at best, offensive at worst.  I was just saying it wasn't stereotyping.

Otherwise good post overall.  Though calling retired player color commentators "journalists" is generous 

[dgies9156]

I think you're thinking of the 90's Cardinals, who outside of '96 never finished better than 10 GB.

There are a lot of very bad baseball teams right now, (Cubs, Orioles, Pirates, DBacks, most of the AL Central), which is allowing mediocre teams go on winning streaks. It happens every season.

Brother Inferiority:

My reference should have been to the 1980 St. Louis Cardinals. They were awful though they had high-salaried, high visibility players. Whitey Herzog came in and shook them up big time. Got rid of Ted Simmons and a host of others. By 1982, they were World Champions.

[GB Warrior]

I'm surprised MLB is not putting the Angels in the 2022 Field of Dreams game, so they can showcase Ohtani.

I'm not surprised by any of the new and innovative ways MLB finds to not market its stars.

[jsglow]

Brother Glow,

The Cardinals have been playing well as of late because they had three games against Pittsburgh and six against the Kansas City Royals. Had they played the Iowa/Wrigley Cubs instead of the Brewers, that streak would have been longer and stronger.

The Cardinals lack cohesiveness, a bullpen that does something other than pour gasoline into an opponent's run scoring machine and they don't play station-to-station baseball. Not to mention Flaherty was out a good part of the season and Dakota Hudson had Tommy John surgery. Injuries are a part of any major league season but the Cardinals haven't plugged the holes caused by the loss of Flaherty and Hudson.

This Cardinal team is like the 1980s Cardinals -- holes everywhere. They have about as much chance at the Wildcard as the Iowa/Wrigley Cubs do.

All this from a hard core Cardinal fan too!

I do have to say again how impressed I am with David Stearns.  Adames, Tellez and Escobar have been incredible mid-season acquisitions.  In addition, the way they weathered the Covid outbreak demonstrates the depth of their pitching staff.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Brother Inferiority:

My reference should have been to the 1980 St. Louis Cardinals. They were awful though they had high-salaried, high visibility players. Whitey Herzog came in and shook them up big time. Got rid of Ted Simmons and a host of others. By 1982, they were World Champions.

Heresy, that's not "The Cardinal Way"... or so I've been told.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Heresy, that's not "The Cardinal Way"... or so I've been told.

Shoothoops cracks his knuckles in preparation for his latest dissertation.