Moving your Wojo Needle

[tower912]

That is what Duke did with Wojo.

[brewcity77]

What would the temperature be on Stan Johnson being in play, whether after this year or in a couple, ala what Wisconsin football did with Chryst. Let him leave to get feet wet as HC and come back next opportunity?

The issues with this team in terms of defense, turnovers, and rotations were all present when Stan was here. If he couldn't fix them when he was on staff, why would we expect him to be able to change them now?

I'm cool with staying in the family when everyone is content with the family's success. But so far, the evidence is that Stan can get guys but the jury is out on if he can coach. Which is the same question we have about Wojo after 6+ years.

[hairy worthen]

I remember earlier this year when this team could not handle the press, it has been corrected.
I remember when this tean had problems inbounding the ball, it has been corrected.
Now we have freshman making freshman mistakes, a few defensive bad habits and tired legs.
These and a few other shortcomings will be corrected.
The best is yet to come.
There will be time to change coaches, now is not the time.

BTW, how is Buzz doing with all his Texas connections and metric management?    Mr. analytics has been struggling for 7 years.  Perhaps its not in the numbers after all.

Tired legs? Really though? 2 games in 13 days and they have tired legs?  You might have to dig deeper into your book of excuses to replace that one. Maybe ask Tower for help.

[panda]

Wojo has been at or within a game of .500 in conference in 4 of his 6 seasons. One season at 12-6 and another at 4-14. His ceiling is around the 12-6 mark and the floor is 4-14. Every other season is bang average.

The only thing that will change my mind is two straight seasons with a conference record well above 500. I will go on record saying there is a zero percent chance of that happening. The longer we stick with him, the less appealing our job becomes to others.

[Goose]

vogue

Speaking of Texas, how is Shaka doing down there this year?

[wadesworld]

vogue

Speaking of Texas, how is Shaka doing down there this year?

Pretty similarly to how Wojo was doing 2 years ago at this point in the season.

[Goose]

BLM

Don't you have a protest to attend?

[tower912]

The one in Washington?

[Stretchdeltsig]

Overall, I've been a So no supporter because of his recruiting. But I've been frustrated by his poor game coaching. After watching his post game press conference, he admitted being clueless how to coach during the UConn game in the second half. He said "the responsibility for the loss falls on him and that he has to get better."  After seven years, I think we all know that he's a nice guy and Good recruiter but he just can't coach.

[wadesworld]

BLM

Don't you have a protest to attend?

Sorry I made you uncomfortable.

[JWags85]

I remember earlier this year when this team could not handle the press, it has been corrected.
I remember when this tean had problems inbounding the ball, it has been corrected.
Now we have freshman making freshman mistakes, a few defensive bad habits and tired legs.
These and a few other shortcomings will be corrected.
The best is yet to come.
There will be time to change coaches, now is not the time.

BTW, how is Buzz doing with all his Texas connections and metric management?    Mr. analytics has been struggling for 7 years.  Perhaps its not in the numbers after all.

Lists a number of problems and says “it has been corrected”.  About a team who has lost 4 of 5, just blew an 18 point lead at home, and would have lost 5 of 5 if not for a monumental comeback against the likely worst team in the conference. I shudder at what they would look like if all these shortcomings hadn’t been corrected.  2 games in 2 weeks and they have tired legs 

As for your Buzz dig,  he took a VT program who hadn’t been to the NCAA in 8 years and had 3 straight losing seasons and took them to 3 straight NCAAs and their first S16 in 50 years.  Now he’s at A&M, they are 6-2. He brought in 2 top 100 guys last year and has a top 25 signing for next year, their first 5 star recruit since DeAndre Jordan 15 years ago.

You can defend Wojo and the job you think he’s doing and that Buzz isn’t coming back, we should move on, fair. But don’t act like Buzz has been “struggling” or use him as a positive comp for Wojo, cause that is patently false.  He’s an infinitely better coach, for all his flaws, and he’s succeeding like he does.

[vogue65]

Overall, I've been a So no supporter because of his recruiting. But I've been frustrated by his poor game coaching. After watching his post game press conference, he admitted being clueless how to coach during the UConn game in the second half. He said "the responsibility for the loss falls on him and that he has to get better."  After seven years, I think we all know that he's a nice guy and Good recruiter but he just can't coach.

Which is it?  He is a good recruiter or he can't coach. 
If he is a good recruiter then why did they miss so many shots?
If he can't coach then why does he win some games with inferior talent?
O.K., then he can coach, but he recruits inferior talent making him a poor recruiter.
He may be a good recruiter and a good coach or a poor recruiter and a poor coach.
When you guys figure this out let me know.

[The Big East]

What would the temperature be on Stan Johnson being in play, whether after this year or in a couple, ala what Wisconsin football did with Chryst. Let him leave to get feet wet as HC and come back next opportunity?

The temperature would be very high.

[vogue65]

Lists a number of problems and says “it has been corrected”.  About a team who has lost 4 of 5, just blew an 18 point lead at home, and would have lost 5 of 5 if not for a monumental comeback against the likely worst team in the conference. I shudder at what they would look like if all these shortcomings hadn’t been corrected.  2 games in 2 weeks and they have tired legs 

As for your Buzz dig,  he took a VT program who hadn’t been to the NCAA in 8 years and had 3 straight losing seasons and took them to 3 straight NCAAs and their first S16 in 50 years.  Now he’s at A&M, they are 6-2. He brought in 2 top 100 guys last year and has a top 25 signing for next year, their first 5 star recruit since DeAndre Jordan 15 years ago.

You can defend Wojo and the job you think he’s doing and that Buzz isn’t coming back, we should move on, fair. But don’t act like Buzz has been “struggling” or use him as a positive comp for Wojo, cause that is patently false.  He’s an infinitely better coach, for all his flaws, and he’s succeeding like he does.

I'm a big Buzz fan, and a very poor communicator.

There is no comp. for Wojo, that's the problem.

I don't defend Wojo, I favor patience.

Sometimes you just don't match up well with another team.
I don't know why they had no legs the other night, but they didn't.
Yes, many shortcomings have bern corrected,  there is more work to be done.
There, is that better?

[Stretchdeltsig]

Which is it?  He is a good recruiter or he can't coach. 
If he is a good recruiter then why did they miss so many shots?
If he can't coach then why does he win some games with inferior talent?
O.K., then he can coach, but he recruits inferior talent making him a poor recruiter.
He may be a good recruiter and a good coach or a poor recruiter and a poor coach.
When you guys figure this out let me know.

Vogue:
You seem confused. My take is that Wojo is an above average recruiter. But he's a below average coach. He seems to lack teaching skills, especially during game. Many times when the tv cameras would zoom in on Marquette huddles So no would be barking at the players in two or three word grunts. Secondly, his game coaching to recognize changes made by opponents and make counter changes is lacking. And he seems clueless how to stop opponents' momentum by changing the tempo (like Al did and even Buzz) to win games. He doesn't know how to help the team win. The bottom line is that he's a "B" recruiter and a "D" coach.  After seven years this is as good as it gets with Wojo.

[willie warrior]

No.
The team looked tired, they had tired legs.
A lot of standing around and watching.
Also some obvious freshman mistakes which will be corrected.
They are a work in progress.
The best is yet to come.
Can the double teaming be corrected in game?
Finding the open man needs to be worked on.
It is two steps forward, one step back.

Spoken like a true Wojo sycophant

[JWags85]

I'm a big Buzz fan, and a very poor communicator.

There is no comp. for Wojo, that's the problem.

I don't defend Wojo, I favor patience.

Sometimes you just don't match up well with another team.
I don't know why they had no legs the other night, but they didn't.
Yes, many shortcomings have bern corrected,  there is more work to be done.
There, is that better?

You’re a big Buzz fan but yet you blatantly misrepresented his time post-MU.  That wasn’t poor communication, unless you were implying he was struggling and it’s “not in the numbers” in some way other than his day job.

And there are plenty of comps for Wojo. You keep talking about this nebulous patience idea yet you have no verifiable metrics. Just that “things are corrected” and “they will get better”.  I respect different viewpoints about his performance as a coach, but you just seem to play bingo with every generic excuse for poor team performance.

“Tired legs”
“Bad matchup”
“Coaches don’t make the shots”

[naginiF]

BLM

Don't you have a protest to attend?

this didn't age well.

Regarding Wojo - shouldn't a large part of the collective ire be focussed on the BOT/MU exec wing? Current pandemic induced financial situation aside, they are the ones that set the criteria for what "success" is for both the program and the coach. Are their expectations for W's lower than the average Scoop fan or are they not super skilled at managing their staff to their expectations? If it's the former I'm actually somewhat OK with what's happening (i.e. I trust that they know more about what's good for the total institution than I do), if it's the latter I'm more displeased with them than Wojo

**that concludes my "not really answering the question" point of view**

[WhiteTrash]

Scholl also needs the ax for getting us into a contract that is too expensive to get out of at the end of this year.

I don't believe for a second that MU can not buy him out.

Dead man walking.

[Silent Verbal]

Everyone tries to portray me as a ProJo.   Honestly, my needle on Wojo is where it has always been.     Looking back on my posts from when he was hired, I expressed concern that he would ever grow out of his Duke roots, as winning at MU and in the Big East is different.    I suspended my skepticism as it turned out he landed a number of good recruits.    I said that I wasn't thrilled, but I could see the foundation he was building, could see the road map.     Those were the early years.   
   I have never thought he was a great game coach.    I have compared him multiple times to Crean without Wade and I do not consider that a compliment.    Well, he is also Crean without the used car salesman vibe, which is a point in Wojo's favor.  I recently started a thread about the hole in Wojo's recruiting, the lack of switchables, and that was exposed again last night.    Old Herm had a phrase in recruiting, 'pogo sticks'.    MU doesn't have them.   
   I broke with Wojo when the letter story came out.   If it was true, then he made the worst decision of his tenure by allowing those two to stay on his team.   And if it were true, it was better that they left.   But, because he doesn't recruit the way Buzz did, he didn't have back up plans and couldn't just dial up and get a couple of JUCO's.   
  So, I look back at my initial concerns and realize that I was probably right then.    He really hasn't grown past the Duke roots.   But, and this is the big one, it really doesn't matter what I think.    I try to see the big picture, particularly from the university's standpoint.    Wanting a clean program.   Wanting to stay off the front pages for negative reasons.    In a financial situation that would make it difficult to buy him out.      I get it all.    And I firmly believe that Wojo is not going anywhere anytime soon.   

But that doesn't mean I think he is a great coach.   I never have.    I just choose to not rake him over the coals for the Kennedy assassination.     

There's a line I really like from the pilot episode of Deadwood, where Seth Bullock says to a rabble rouser, "You called the law in, Sampson.  You don't get to call it off now that you're liquored up and popular on payday."

And I think that quote applies to your post pretty well.  You've been one of Wojo's biggest supporters on this board for years.  You've rationalized nearly every bad move he's made, every bad loss we've had.  You'll write entire recaps like you did last night without once mentioning his poor coaching.  And now that there's a large enough sample size of his work, now that his failures as a coach are obvious beyond the shadow of a doubt, you're trying to backtrack to...save face on here, I guess?  That's okay.  I can think of one other poster who will take a similarly ambivalent stance when Wojo finally gets canned, so you're not alone in this behavior.

It's perfectly fine to admit you were wrong, and that you're now off the Wojo bandwagon.  Plenty of people have said, "I was Projo, but after (insert bad game here) I'm in the Nojo camp."  I respect them for that, and lord knows there's plenty of room on the Nojo bandwagon.  Heck, if Wojo somehow turned into Jay Wright and won two national championships in the next three years, I'd happily admit I was wrong.  What I won't do is come out and say something like, "Everybody portrays me as Nojo, but I never said I *didn't* support him.  I often said his coaching was garbage and that he's a gut maggot with no guts, but I always supported him during our games."

And finally, I think the "Crean without Wade" comparison is BS, and always have.  It's totally meaningless.  I don't like Crean, but he accomplished far more in his time at MU than Wojo has, and in a shorter period.  Crean *did* get us Wade, he delivered when he had him and got us a FF, and he revived a moribund program in the process.  If you want to call him Crean without Wade, you can just say, "He's a bad coach with no personality.  Sort of like Crean without the actual success that Crean had."

Bottom line, it's okay to admit you were wrong about Wojo, and it's fine to jump from Projo to Nojo.  But to try and act like you never supported him when you so obviously did just to, I don't know, save face around here so you can still do your game recaps, is a little unnecessary. 

[#UnleashSean]

There's a line I really like from the pilot episode of Deadwood, where Seth Bullock says to a rabble rouser, "You called the law in, Sampson.  You don't get to call it off now that you're liquored up and popular on payday."

And I think that quote applies to your post pretty well.  You've been one of Wojo's biggest supporters on this board for years.  You've rationalized nearly every bad move he's made, every bad loss we've had.  You'll write entire recaps like you did last night without once mentioning his poor coaching.  And now that there's a large enough sample size of his work, now that his failures as a coach are obvious beyond the shadow of a doubt, you're trying to backtrack to...save face on here, I guess?  That's okay.  I can think of one other poster who will take a similarly ambivalent stance when Wojo finally gets canned, so you're not alone in this behavior.

It's perfectly fine to admit you were wrong, and that you're now off the Wojo bandwagon.  Plenty of people have said, "I was Projo, but after (insert bad game here) I'm in the Nojo camp."  I respect them for that, and lord knows there's plenty of room on the Nojo bandwagon.  Heck, if Wojo somehow turned into Jay Wright and won two national championships in the next three years, I'd happily admit I was wrong.  What I won't do is come out and say something like, "Everybody portrays me as Nojo, but I never said I *didn't* support him.  I often said his coaching was garbage and that he's a gut maggot with no guts, but I always supported him during our games."

And finally, I think the "Crean without Wade" comparison is BS, and always have.  It's totally meaningless.  I don't like Crean, but he accomplished far more in his time at MU than Wojo has, and in a shorter period.  Crean *did* get us Wade, he delivered when he had him and got us a FF, and he revived a moribund program in the process.  If you want to call him Crean without Wade, you can just say, "He's a bad coach with no personality.  Sort of like Crean without the actual success that Crean had."

Bottom line, it's okay to admit you were wrong about Wojo, and it's fine to jump from Projo to Nojo.  But to try and act like you never supported him when you so obviously did just to, I don't know, save face around here so you can still do your game recaps, is a little unnecessary.

As someone who genuinely likes tower as a person, this may be a truth bomb for basketball.

[wadesworld]

BLM

Don't you have a protest to attend?

Welp.  This aged about as poorly as anything on the internet ever has.  What an embarrassing day for the anti-BLM-protests.  We can protest for equality, social justice, and ending racism, or we can protest because the guy whose feet we kiss lost an election.

[rocky_warrior]

Just gonna say, I refuse to accept the titles projo and nojo, and if people want to take one of those titles on themselves, ok, fine.  But if you gonna' label someone else, well, that's not quite how it works. 

I myself, always want Marquette to succeed.  I was willing to give Wojo a chance - and even for this year.  I'll always cheer on his teams and players.

However unless there's miraculous improvement, I don't think he's done enough.  Nonetheless, little chance any change happiness before the end of the 2021-2022 season, so Go Marquette!

[5DollarPitcher]

There's a line I really like from the pilot episode of Deadwood, where Seth Bullock says to a rabble rouser, "You called the law in, Sampson.  You don't get to call it off now that you're liquored up and popular on payday."

And I think that quote applies to your post pretty well.  You've been one of Wojo's biggest supporters on this board for years.  You've rationalized nearly every bad move he's made, every bad loss we've had.  You'll write entire recaps like you did last night without once mentioning his poor coaching.  And now that there's a large enough sample size of his work, now that his failures as a coach are obvious beyond the shadow of a doubt, you're trying to backtrack to...save face on here, I guess?  That's okay.  I can think of one other poster who will take a similarly ambivalent stance when Wojo finally gets canned, so you're not alone in this behavior.

It's perfectly fine to admit you were wrong, and that you're now off the Wojo bandwagon.  Plenty of people have said, "I was Projo, but after (insert bad game here) I'm in the Nojo camp."  I respect them for that, and lord knows there's plenty of room on the Nojo bandwagon.  Heck, if Wojo somehow turned into Jay Wright and won two national championships in the next three years, I'd happily admit I was wrong.  What I won't do is come out and say something like, "Everybody portrays me as Nojo, but I never said I *didn't* support him.  I often said his coaching was garbage and that he's a gut maggot with no guts, but I always supported him during our games."

And finally, I think the "Crean without Wade" comparison is BS, and always have.  It's totally meaningless.  I don't like Crean, but he accomplished far more in his time at MU than Wojo has, and in a shorter period.  Crean *did* get us Wade, he delivered when he had him and got us a FF, and he revived a moribund program in the process.  If you want to call him Crean without Wade, you can just say, "He's a bad coach with no personality.  Sort of like Crean without the actual success that Crean had."

Bottom line, it's okay to admit you were wrong about Wojo, and it's fine to jump from Projo to Nojo.  But to try and act like you never supported him when you so obviously did just to, I don't know, save face around here so you can still do your game recaps, is a little unnecessary.

This is an inconvenient truth for Tower and echoes how he comes off in his posts.

[tower912]

Yawn.