Back to Apathy?

[Galway Eagle]

I feel like WI and CU were exciting and got us all excited for things that just weren't quite meant to be. About time we all head back to our initial expectations or for some of us straight apathy for this season.

I suggest a dosage of green spot, followed by a Bordeaux with a lamb roast. Finish with a barrel aged stout. It'll cure all this pain. 

[Johnny B]

 i was wondering if the overall fan base has grown apathetic toward the program to an extent. I didnt feel much about this game. idk just feels to normal. btw does this board feel like it has less trafic since back 7 or 8 years ago? idk

[Galway Eagle]

i was wondering if the overall fan base has grown apathetic toward the program to an extent. I didnt feel much about this game. idk just feels to normal. btw does this board feel like it has less trafic since back 7 or 8 years ago? idk

Hard to compare based on traffic since about 30 of the daily accounts were Chico's

But yeah, I mean I've gone in less than 10yrs from camping out for games against ND and UW, & getting voted Big East Fan of the Week (won me free courtside seats to the 2013 BE Tournament) to instead just making a good dinner and checking the score because I didn't think we had a shot. I imagine there's more than a few of the other posters who have similar feelings now.

[Silent Verbal]

Come March, it will have been 8 years since we won a tournament game.  (The poster who was mentioned above would laughably find some way to put that on Buzz.)  8 years is two graduating classes of Marquette students, damn near an entire generation of alums who won't have witnessed success on the court.  Not great.

[Stretchdeltsig]

What a terrible game. It really hurts. Is it reality that we're just not that good? Or was Villanova really good? I was optimistic this year because of wojo's recruiting. But, he still can't win. It seemed that Buzz won with less talent. My gut feeling is that our coaching is the problem. This game made it obvious what happens when a high quality coached team plays us with a so-so game coach who can't adjust to game situations.

[muwarrior69]

What a terrible game. It really hurts. Is it reality that we're just not that good? Or was Villanova really good? I was optimistic this year because of wojo's recruiting. But, he still can't win. It seemed that Buzz won with less talent. My gut feeling is that our coaching is the problem. This game made it obvious what happens when a high quality coached team plays us with a so-so game coach who can't adjust to game situations.

Bishop on Creighton looks like a much better player than Dawson. Why?

[The Sultan]

It's starting to feel a lot like the late Mike Deane years.  My guess is that the FF would be pretty quiet with fans there. 

[brewcity77]

I think it's settling in that this is what we are under Wojo, and people are tired of getting their expectations up only to see the bottom fall out. Especially when the same circumstances that have led to disappointment before, the turnovers, the defense, haven't really changed. Different players, same results. I love the team and the talent. Wojo is a great guy as your top assistant coach. But that's not the role he's in, and it shows.

[Dr. Blackheart]

It's starting to feel a lot like the late Mike Deane years.  My guess is that the FF would be pretty quiet with fans there.

Mike Deane is dead? God, I hope he was buried with his seat belt on.

[Viper]

What a terrible game. It really hurts. Is it reality that we're just not that good? Or was Villanova really good? I was optimistic this year because of wojo's recruiting. But, he still can't win. It seemed that Buzz won with less talent. My gut feeling is that our coaching is the problem. This game made it obvious what happens when a high quality coached team plays us with a so-so game coach who can't adjust to game situations.

in this the 7th year of Wojo, assistant coaches have turned over. Players have cycled through. The constant is the HC...and the results do not change. This, in turn, has created apathy. For example, in Milwaukee, MU is an afterthought in local tv and radio sports. Does anyone talk MU? Other than scoopers, nope. My biggest fear is the current MU admin is apathetic to the basketball program, it's history, what it means to the students, alumni et al. Lovell needs to go, but that's another topic. Would Father Wild put up with what's taking place with this program? No way! And that gets back to Wojo. Coaching at this level is huge! I don't have an answer on a replacement...hey Bo Ryan, any interest?, but what's taking place here can't continue. For the overall health of MU athletics, this can't continue. As SilentVerbal stated, 2classes of students are filtering through having experienced zero ncaa tourney wins...similar to the Majerus/Dukiet era, and completely unacceptable! btw, imagine how it would be having a top 15 team week in week out in the awesome Fiserv Forum? Under Wojo, total buzzkill.

[vogue65]

People see what they want to see.
Last night I saw the future, the bright future when Marquette basketball will again shine.
I was in Milwaukee during the Lombardi years and saw how fickle Wisconsin and Mikwaukee sports fans can be.
It's a long story, I understand it. 
Some people can only back a winner because they are basically losers.
Winners have patience, tolerance, and demonstrate strategic behaviours.
I remember years of The Pack is Back, ha.

People around here love to talk about "the program", last night I saw the program unfolding.   It is easy to see the negative, seeing the foundation is harder to discern.

[shoothoops]

in this the 7th year of Wojo, assistant coaches have turned over. Players have cycled through. The constant is the HC...and the results do not change. This, in turn, has created apathy. For example, in Milwaukee, MU is an afterthought in local tv and radio sports. Does anyone talk MU? Other than scoopers, nope. My biggest fear is the current MU admin is apathetic to the basketball program, it's history, what it means to the students, alumni et al. Lovell needs to go, but that's another topic. Would Father Wild put up with what's taking place with this program? No way! And that gets back to Wojo. Coaching at this level is huge! I don't have an answer on a replacement...hey Bo Ryan, any interest?, but what's taking place here can't continue. For the overall health of MU athletics, this can't continue. As SilentVerbal stated, 2classes of students are filtering through having experienced zero ncaa tourney wins...similar to the Majerus/Dukiet era, and completely unacceptable! btw, imagine how it would be having a top 15 team week in week out in the awesome Fiserv Forum? Under Wojo, total buzzkill.

If people want to learn from Villanova, here is a list of Jay Wright's assistant coaches over the years, where they were then, before, after. It's a 2017 article. So I will update it from 2017. Since this article:

Baker Dunleavy moved on to be the head coach at Quinnipiac. Ashley Howard moved on to be the head coach at Lasalle.

Kyle Neptune is still there. George Halcovage is still there. Mike Nardi is still there.

The one constant at Villanova is Jay Wright.

[cheebs09]

People see what they want to see.
Last night I saw the future, the bright future when Marquette basketball will again shine.
I was in Milwaukee during the Lombardi years and saw how fickle Wisconsin and Mikwaukee sports fans can be.
It's a long story, I understand it. 
Some people can only back a winner because they are basically losers.
Winners have patience, tolerance, and demonstrate strategic behaviours.
I remember years of The Pack is Back, ha.

People around here love to talk about "the program", last night I saw the program unfolding.   It is easy to see the negative, seeing the foundation is harder to discern.

Man, I'll have what your having. I saw the beginning of Wojos second wave of recruits after the first wave ended with a thud. I saw the same problems we've seen for the previous 6 years.

I think you posted elsewhere that Wojo is just starting to build the MU program. I think Buzz left it in a pretty good spot. His last team wasn't very good, but we had a nice start to being a Top-20 program. A reputation as a tough team that fought like hell and produced some NBA talent.

In Wojo's 7 years, I don't know what our identity is. He's only building now because things have gone backwards quite a bit in the last 7 years.

[mu_hilltopper]

does this board feel like it has less trafic since back 7 or 8 years ago? idk

Nah, not really.  Posts per year are around 90-115k per year.  2020 has 105k.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=stats

[dinger]

I had a really good response to this topic but I just don't care anymore. Arby's.

[The Sultan]

People see what they want to see.
Last night I saw the future, the bright future when Marquette basketball will again shine.
I was in Milwaukee during the Lombardi years and saw how fickle Wisconsin and Mikwaukee sports fans can be.
It's a long story, I understand it. 
Some people can only back a winner because they are basically losers.
Winners have patience, tolerance, and demonstrate strategic behaviours.
I remember years of The Pack is Back, ha.

People around here love to talk about "the program", last night I saw the program unfolding.   It is easy to see the negative, seeing the foundation is harder to discern.

Oh please. By year 7 Lombardi has thee championships and was about to win two more. You think it takes seven years to build a foundation?

[mu_hilltopper]

I had a really good response to this topic but I just don't care anymore. Arby's.

That's the spirit!

[Eye]

Lots of short thoughts here:

I was much more apathetic than frustrated early in the 2nd half last night. Full-on apathy by late in the 2nd half.

Results now are very similar to the end of the Crean and Deane years. Thought last night right now MU has the recruiting of the Crean years but the results of the Deane years.

Text to a buddy who works 2nd shift after Creighton game was this 3 times - "I will not fall for Time and Score in mid-December". Been burned too much the last 3 years.

MU never seems to dictate what the game's style will be - it's always the opponent that determines what the game's style will be.

[vogue65]

Lots of short thoughts here:

I was much more apathetic than frustrated early in the 2nd half last night. Full-on apathy by late in the 2nd half.

Results now are very similar to the end of the Crean and Deane years. Thought last night right now MU has the recruiting of the Crean years but the results of the Deane years.

Text to a buddy who works 2nd shift after Creighton game was this 3 times - "I will not fall for Time and Score in mid-December". Been burned too much the last 3 years.

MU never seems to dictate what the game's style will be - it's always the opponent that determines what the game's style will be.

Correct, lack of team identity, a young team coming together, playing seasoned teams with proven systems.
Time to recruit to the system and not install a system to fit the players at hand. 

[hairy worthen]

Correct, lack of team identity, a young team coming together, playing seasoned teams with proven systems.
Time to recruit to the system and not install a system to fit the players at hand.

So what exactly IS the system. That's part of the problem. Also why figure that out in year 8.

[brewcity77]

People see what they want to see.
Last night I saw the future, the bright future when Marquette basketball will again shine.

Hard disagree. I have laid out pretty clearly what I want to see. I want to see a team regularly expected to be in the top-25, with the down years being 10 seeds to NIT and the good years being Big East & Final Four contenders. I haven't seen that yet.

I have tried to be pro-Wojo. I feel like I was one of his staunchest defenders for years. I saw the vision and how the recruiting supported it. I saw the blueprint. But now it's become clear to me recruiting doesn't matter much if the coach can't maximize that talent. The blueprint will never be realized if the schemes & understanding of the modern game aren't there.

I have no doubt Wojo wants to win. I have no doubt he's trying his best. But he's also left me with no doubt that it simply isn't enough. That's not what I want to see, it's what I do see. It's the reality that many like Goose saw sooner.

[Goose]

Brew

As you noted, I am far from a Wojo supporter and am very disappointed with his time at MU. That being said, I actually believe Lewis, Dawson and Carton are guys you can build a team/program around. I have been begging for athletic, basketball players and I think these three guys are a start. I really do not care how they do this year as long as those three get a ton of minutes and continue to improve.

My big frustration on here is that everyone seems to be looking for silver linings for the past seven years. I am sorry but I cannot excited that GE has provided a spark or JC has made some three point baskets and grabbed some boards. Those are feel good stories and ammo for guys to say "I told you so" when they make something happen. Fact is, much of the team is "feel good stories" and not top level D1 players.

Have said it a million times, he needs to have ten Dawson, Lewis and Carton's or he better up his coaching skills quickly. You either need top level players or a top level coach. Again, I am encouraged about the three new guys. They are basketball players and will only get better. While apathy set in for me a long time ago, I am watching the games and the new quys closely. Maybe, just maybe, they can be the foundation for building a much better program.

[cnse70]

I have tried to be pro-Wojo. I feel like I was one of his staunchest defenders for years. I saw the vision and how the recruiting supported it. I saw the blueprint. But now it's become clear to me recruiting doesn't matter much if the coach can't maximize that talent. The blueprint will never be realized if the schemes & understanding of the modern game aren't there.

[/quote]

This for me.  And it's clear the groundhog performances again this year so far have put many of us over the edge.  The question is, what is acceptable to Lovell, the AD, and BOT?

[vogue65]

Brew

As you noted, I am far from a Wojo supporter and am very disappointed with his time at MU. That being said, I actually believe Lewis, Dawson and Carton are guys you can build a team/program around. I have been begging for athletic, basketball players and I think these three guys are a start. I really do not care how they do this year as long as those three get a ton of minutes and continue to improve.

My big frustration on here is that everyone seems to be looking for silver linings for the past seven years. I am sorry but I cannot excited that GE has provided a spark or JC has made some three point baskets and grabbed some boards. Those are feel good stories and ammo for guys to say "I told you so" when they make something happen. Fact is, much of the team is "feel good stories" and not top level D1 players.

Have said it a million times, he needs to have ten Dawson, Lewis and Carton's or he better up his coaching skills quickly. You either need top level players or a top level coach. Again, I am encouraged about the three new guys. They are basketball players and will only get better. While apathy set in for me a long time ago, I am watching the games and the new quys closely. Maybe, just maybe, they can be the foundation for building a much better program.

Now you're talking.  I can recognize a basketball player when I see one.
Don't think you need ten, but three or four are not enough.
Also, not an either/or, for top level you need both, real players and real coaches. 
Which comes first?
Players or coaches?
You got me.

[lawdog77]

Last night, I watched Home Alone and Home Alone 2 with the kids. Maybe after the holidays I will watch them again. From what I saw earlier this year, Theo looks much improved on the offensive end, Carton Lewis and Garcia have great upside, and Koby shows flashes of a complete game. Aside from that, meh.  Wojo now bores me more than anything.