NBA Thread 2020-21

[MU82]

With today's sharp shooters I doubt Wilt would ever score 100 points in a game. Back then the big centers were scoring machines as the guards fed them the ball. Today the big guys kick out to the 3pt line.

Wilt not being able to score 100 points in a game now is hardly a condemnation, because nobody else has even come close.

I'll acknowledge that he wouldn't average 50 points a game over a season, too. OK?

[The Sultan]

We don't know how one of today's NBA coaches would use a singularly talented big man, but I suspect you're probably right that any of the star bigs from yesteryear would not get the kind of touches they used to get. The game has changed and that makes sense.

Nevertheless, I get a kick out of those who think that Rudy Gobert can earn $40M a year starting for the team with the NBA's best record ... but Kareem, Wilt and Russell would have trouble finding a job or something because they wouldn't have shot 3s.

Maybe it would depend on one of them being lucky enough to be coached by Quin Snyder.

Has anyone said they wouldn't find a job?  Not that I can see.

The only thing I see is statements that they wouldn't be as dominant as they were 40-50 years ago. They would either be rim protectors or would have needed to develop some face up game.

I have no idea why you keep bringing up Gobert. The ways he plays and how he is used isn't anything like those guys.

[MU82]

Has anyone said they wouldn't find a job?  Not that I can see.

The only thing I see is statements that they wouldn't be as dominant as they were 40-50 years ago. They would either be rim protectors or would have needed to develop some face up game.

I have no idea why you keep bringing up Gobert. The ways he plays and how he is used isn't anything like those guys.

I am hereby agreeing they wouldn't be as offensively dominant as they were in their eras. I do believe they would still be great and important players, and I believe the best coaches would make sure to get the likes of Wilt, Kareem and Shaq significantly involved offensively, even if not at the dominant level they displayed during their eras.

I keep bringing up Gobert because it's valid to do so in this discussion. For those who believe that even the best non-3-shooting bigs would have negligible value in today's NBA -- and many are arguing exactly that -- here's a rim-protector with little offensive game at all, a guy who has never made a 3-pointer in 7 NBA seasons, getting paid $40M/season and playing major minutes for the team with the NBA's best record.

And if Rudy Gobert has significant value -- which he obviously does -- so would the game's all-time greats.

[The Sultan]

I am hereby agreeing they wouldn't be as offensively dominant as they were in their eras. I do believe they would still be great and important players, and I believe the best coaches would make sure to get the likes of Wilt, Kareem and Shaq significantly involved offensively, even if not at the dominant level they displayed during their eras.

I keep bringing up Gobert because it's valid to do so in this discussion. For those who believe that even the best non-3-shooting bigs would have negligible value in today's NBA -- and many are arguing exactly that -- here's a rim-protector with little offensive game at all, a guy who has never made a 3-pointer in 7 NBA seasons, getting paid $40M/season and playing major minutes for the team with the NBA's best record.

And if Rudy Gobert has significant value -- which he obviously does -- so would the game's all-time greats.

JFC.  What a strawman you are building here.  No one said that they would have "negligible value."  What started you down the path was muwarrior69 saying:

"The game was different as well. During the Russel Chamberlain era big centers and forwards dominated the game as there was no 3pt line to defend. As great as they were I doubt they would dominate in todays game like they did back then, but will never know."

Which is now EXACTLY what you are agreeing with above.

[MU82]

JFC.  What a strawman you are building here.  No one said that they would have "negligible value."  What started you down the path was muwarrior69 saying:

"The game was different as well. During the Russel Chamberlain era big centers and forwards dominated the game as there was no 3pt line to defend. As great as they were I doubt they would dominate in todays game like they did back then, but will never know."

Which is now EXACTLY what you are agreeing with above.

I didn't say that's what muw69 said. I know you've read earlier comments on this subject because you made comments yourself. And some were saying today's NBA would have little or no room for these guys. I am saying they would be highly valued, highly compensated All-Stars, even in today's NBA.

Look, none of us can "prove" anything. They're all just a bunch of opinions. I can, however, prove that a defensively dominant but offensively challenged center can earn $40M serving a valuable role for the team with the NBA's best record, because one is doing it. If you want to call that a "strawman," that's A-OK with me.

I have neither the time nor interest in getting into a pages-long, semantics-based, typical-Scoop debate, so you can have the last word for now if you want it.

[cheebs09]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31344010/golden-state-warriors-become-first-pro-team-launch-nft-collection

Can someone explain to this old guy why this is "the wave of the future?"

My read is people trying to find the next Bitcoin and jumping in to try to make some quick money. Also, with the way the card market is taking off, there's a market for this type of thing.

[The Sultan]

I didn't say that's what muw69 said. I know you've read earlier comments on this subject because you made comments yourself. And some were saying today's NBA would have little or no room for these guys. I am saying they would be highly valued, highly compensated All-Stars, even in today's NBA.

Look, none of us can "prove" anything. They're all just a bunch of opinions. I can, however, prove that a defensively dominant but offensively challenged center can earn $40M serving a valuable role for the team with the NBA's best record, because one is doing it. If you want to call that a "strawman," that's A-OK with me.

I have neither the time nor interest in getting into a pages-long, semantics-based, typical-Scoop debate, so you can have the last word for now if you want it.

Just stop making up arguments that never existed.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I didn't say that's what muw69 said. I know you've read earlier comments on this subject because you made comments yourself. And some were saying today's NBA would have little or no room for these guys. I am saying they would be highly valued, highly compensated All-Stars, even in today's NBA.

Look, none of us can "prove" anything. They're all just a bunch of opinions. I can, however, prove that a defensively dominant but offensively challenged center can earn $40M serving a valuable role for the team with the NBA's best record, because one is doing it. If you want to call that a "strawman," that's A-OK with me.

I have neither the time nor interest in getting into a pages-long, semantics-based, typical-Scoop debate, so you can have the last word for now if you want it.

No one ever said the NBA would have "little or no room" for those guys. I think the "worst" someone said was that they wouldn't draft Shaq in the top 5 of this year's draft. Getting picked sixth is still pretty great!

[forgetful]

I have no idea how many points Wilt would score in today's NBA. But remember, we are talking about a guy who was 7'1", with a 7'8" wingspan, that had the vertical leap of Michael Jordan, and could bench press 500 lbs.

I think he would be just fine in today's NBA.

[JWags85]

I have no idea how many points Wilt would score in today's NBA. But remember, we are talking about a guy who was 7'1", with a 7'8" wingspan, that had the vertical leap of Michael Jordan, and could bench press 500 lbs.

I think he would be just fine in today's NBA.

Obviously it's hard to compare across eras, but even though his shot was a bit strange, I think if he existed now, he'd be a player like Porzingis, or maybe Embiid, than a classic back to the basket center

[CreightonWarrior]

Less than a minute into the game and Giannis just went to the bench with an ankle injury. Wtf

[wadesworld]

If the half court offense is not running entirely through Jrue come Playoff time 1) the Bucks may not get out of the first round and 2) Bud has gotta go.

[MU82]

Rookie of the Year favorite LaMelo Ball could return for the Hornets tonight, as could instant-offense 6th man Malik Monk.

Ball suffered a fractured wrist in a March 20 road loss to the Los Angeles Clippers. Monk has been out since April 1 with a right ankle sprain.

The Hornets are still waiting on the recovery of leading scorer Gordon Hayward, who suffered a right foot sprain April 2. Hayward was still in a walking boot, and coach James Borrego has said he isn't close to a return.

Ball averaged 15.9 points, 6.1 assists and 5.9 rebounds in the 41 games he played before the injury. Since then, the Hornets have gone 10-10 and repeatedly have struggled to score 100 points because they have been missing so many top offensive players. While they have slipped from fourth to eighth in the conference, they still have a decent shot at being in the play-in tournament.

There was an almost two-week stretch where the Hornets played without 5 of their top 6 players. Borrego probably doesn't deserve Coach of the Year, but he should at least get some votes for holding the team together with tape and gauze.

[MuggsyB]

I'm watching Bucks/Nets.  Obviously, Brooklyn with Harden is a huge favorite but Milwaukee certainly has a chance to get out of the East.  Although I'm not sure Lopez and DiVincenzo are the right complementary players.  They seem deep enough where they can play other guys?  I haven't watched the Bucks much but I think they should be much better defensively.  I'm not really sold on Budenholzer as a playoff coach frankly.

[4everwarriors]

Yes, hey?

[MuggsyB]

Could a Bucks fan explain to me why DiVincenzo played essentially the whole 4th Q if you watched the game today?  I noticed Forbes had 11 pts in like 15 mins.  Neither of these teams played much defense but I'm confused why DD would play 35 mins with his anemic production?  Is he just a hot/cold player?

[MUfan12]

Nice win, but the Nets at full strength... gentleman's sweep.

[GB Warrior]

Could a Bucks fan explain to me why DiVincenzo played essentially the whole 4th Q if you watched the game today?  I noticed Forbes had 11 pts in like 15 mins.  Neither of these teams played much defense but I'm confused why DD would play 35 mins with his anemic production?  Is he just a hot/cold player?

Yes, but more importantly he's a defensive asset and not a liability that Forbes is. Capable of switching onto slightly bigger players. He's not the ideal 4th or 5th player for this roster, but he's what's left after the Bogdan deal fell through.

Also, are there 2 more players in the world capable of blocking a Durant fadeaway beyond Giannis? Good lord.

[JWags85]

Also, are there 2 more players in the world capable of blocking a Durant fadeaway beyond Giannis? Good lord.

No, literally the ONLY other person I think who could possibly do it is AD, and even then I'm not totally sure

[MuggsyB]

Yes, but more importantly he's a defensive asset and not a liability that Forbes is. Capable of switching onto slightly bigger players. He's not the ideal 4th or 5th player for this roster, but he's what's left after the Bogdan deal fell through.

Also, are there 2 more players in the world capable of blocking a Durant fadeaway beyond Giannis? Good lord.

I assumed it was for defense but having watched I thought both teams played awful defense to close the game.    The Bucks have enough talent imo to get a chip.  Middleton and Holiday are a very solid 2 and 3.  I'm just not crazy about Lopez or Dante D.  Could they play Portis and Forbes to close games in the playoffs?

[MU82]

I assumed it was for defense but having watched I thought both teams played awful defense to close the game.    The Bucks have enough talent imo to get a chip.  Middleton and Holiday are a very solid 2 and 3.  I'm just not crazy about Lopez or Dante D.  Could they play Portis and Forbes to close games in the playoffs?

Many coaches would use any of several players for the 2 role-player slots, depending on matchups, size advantage/disadvantage, hot-hand, etc. If Player X is doing well on O and/or D, he gets 30+ minutes. If he's struggling and Player Y is doing better, he gets more playing time. If height is needed, go with Player A; if quickness is needed, Player B. You've got your three stars; the other two spots on the court are more interchangeable.

[MuggsyB]

Many coaches would use any of several players for the 2 role-player slots, depending on matchups, size advantage/disadvantage, hot-hand, etc. If Player X is doing well on O and/or D, he gets 30+ minutes. If he's struggling and Player Y is doing better, he gets more playing time. If height is needed, go with Player A; if quickness is needed, Player B. You've got your three stars; the other two spots on the court are more interchangeable.

DD played 30 mins and had a grand total of zero points.  Maybe Budenholzer was asleep at the wheel?

[The Sultan]

Mugs you say you don't watch a lot of Bucks games. Now you are questioning how the coach allocates minutes. 

Yeah I'm sure the coach was asleep at the wheel...

[MuggsyB]

Mugs you say you don't watch a lot of Bucks games. Now you are questioning how the coach allocates minutes. 

Yeah I'm sure the coach was asleep at the wheel...

Touche  FBM.   But it seemed weird to me.  Forbes was very effective and Dante D played the majority of the 4th Q and increased his 0.0 production through three quarters,  to 0.0.   Aren't coaches supposed to know what's going on during the course of a particular game?

[MU82]

DD played 30 mins and had a grand total of zero points.  Maybe Budenholzer was asleep at the wheel?

I didn't see one second of today's Bucks game and have not seen enough of them this season to know if Bud is good, bad or just mediocre.

Did DD do well on defense? Did he rebound? Take care of the ball? Bring energy? Match up with his man better than somebody else might have? Again I have no answers to those questions because I didn't see the game, but sometimes things aren't as obvious as a box score might suggest.