Wojciechowski beat some cats, E-I-E-I-U

[PGsHeroes32]

This

No its not. Like we said above, it happened it other games today.

[NWarsh]

No its not. Like we said above, it happened it other games today.

And like I was saying it happened in other games because the rule in basketball is you have to re-establish your position in bounds (two feet inbounds) before you touch the ball. Does not matter if you are the first player to touch the ball

[PGsHeroes32]

And like I was saying it happened in other games because the rule in basketball is you have to re-establish your position in bounds (two feet inbounds) before you touch the ball. Does not matter if you are the first player to touch the ball

No, this player literally ran out of bounds to avoid contact on the baseline. Came around to the top of the key and got the pass from the guy waiting up there and it was called.

He was legitamately in bound for a good 3 seconds.

[MU82]

In the first game, my thought was "wow, APB is really bad on offense." In this game, my thought was "wow, we are really good on defense." Very crisp rotations, good help when needed, very rarely did any one lose there man.

Also remind me, isn't the rule that if a player steps out of bounds (without the ball) he isn't allowed to be the first person to touch the ball? If so, the refs missed a very easy call and it led to an EIU three.

I was very impressed with our defense tonight for all the reasons you state. We rarely gave a good look to a team that just lost by 10 at Madison. Also, totally dominated the boards against a team that outrebounded Madison.

As for the play by Wallace - perfectly legal as long as he re-establishes himself on the court before touching the basketball again. This is one of those calls rec-league refs often miss (unfortunately, I speak from experience from early in my officiating career).

A few other observations:

++ Obviously, our guys will be playing significantly better teams next week, but EIU was not a horrible team.

++ If folks look around at some of the scores today, there were ranked teams losing and lots of good teams barely winning. Virginia lost at home to San Fran. Illinois had to rally to beat Ohio by 2 at home. Syracuse beat Bryant by 1. So I'll take a never-in-doubt, 25-point win over a not-horrible team, thank you!

++ It was nice to see a few shots fall for DJ. He is obviously super-talented, but he hadn't been rewarded with buckets until pretty late in the game. Needs to be a little less loose with the basketball, and I'm sure he will.

++ Both Symir and Koby play too much bouncy-ball. Symir got taken out right after a turnover resulted from his bouncy-balling, and that's good by Wojo.

++ I practically fainted when Theo swished that 3. Like his FTs, really nice form ... but I don't think we want him taking too many of those. Theo has looked totally dominant so far -- our MVP after two games IMHO -- and I look forward to seeing him play healthy against better competition next week.

++ Lewis has game and will only get better and better.

++ Garcia not only would start for every college team, he also would start for every NBA team and be first-team All-NBA. If there were such a thing as All-Universe, he'd be that, too. There. I said it.

[wadesworld]

No, this player literally ran out of bounds to avoid contact on the baseline. Came around to the top of the key and got the pass from the guy waiting up there and it was called.

He was legitamately in bound for a good 3 seconds.

That makes no sense at all. The ball was not touched by any player on the court for 3 seconds?

Unless there was a rule change this year, as long as you reestablish yourself with two feet in bounds, you can be the first person to touch the ball. It's not the same as in football.

[NWarsh]

No, this player literally ran out of bounds to avoid contact on the baseline. Came around to the top of the key and got the pass from the guy waiting up there and it was called.

He was legitamately in bound for a good 3 seconds.

Called for what? I will need to watch it because the rule 100% is they just need to re-establish position.  If they called it out of bounds then they were dead wrong. Reggie Miller would have had about half his 3's called off, he literally stepped out of bounds every time he went off those double baseline staggers.

[PGsHeroes32]

That makes no sense at all. The ball was not touched by any player on the court for 3 seconds?

Unless there was a rule change this year, as long as you reestablish yourself with two feet in bounds, you can be the first person to touch the ball. It's not the same as in football.

No it was in another players hands the whole time.

Basically you had the ball. Picked up your dribble. Waited for me to come to you to get the pass. In the process of me making my journey close to you I ran out of bound to avoid the defender and when I came to meet you at the top of the key and accepted the pass they blew the whistle.

Now, unless they made up a rule that the announcers also didn't not complain about, it appears you cannot be the first to touch it in basketball either.

[PGsHeroes32]

Called for what? I will need to watch it because the rule 100% is they just need to re-establish position.  If they called it out of bounds then they were dead wrong. Reggie Miller would have had about half his 3's called off, he literally stepped out of bounds every time he went off those double baseline staggers.

Ref did the hand signal as if it were "over and back". Did that exact same motion. Then the announcers said it was because he was out of bounds and was next to touch it.

Can't remember the game but since Chitown said he saw it in the Illlinois game it was probably that one, since that was one of the many games I watched today.

[rocky_warrior]

++ Garcia not only would start for every college team, he also would start for every NBA team and be first-team All-NBA. If there were such a thing as All-Universe, he'd be that, too. There. I said it.

Now we know you've been hitting some of those wonderful high ABV beers that hit this time of year.   Oh wait, that's me projecting.  Nevermind.

[NWarsh]

Ref did the hand signal as if it were "over and back". Did that exact same motion. Then the announcers said it was because he was out of bounds and was next to touch it.

Can't remember the game but since Chitown said he saw it in the Illlinois game it was probably that one, since that was one of the many games I watched today.

Alright, going to have to watch it because in the game of basketball it is 100% the rule you just need to re-establish position in bounds before touching the ball. The only exception is if you are the person inbounding the ball then you cannot be the first to touch it.

The only three infractions that I can think of that look like over and back hand signals are the over and back call, carry call, and the person inbounding stepping in bounds before passing the ball.  If that was the call they were wrong and the announcers were wrong for suggesting that because that is not a basketball rule

[wadesworld]

Ref did the hand signal as if it were "over and back". Did that exact same motion. Then the announcers said it was because he was out of bounds and was next to touch it.

Can't remember the game but since Chitown said he saw it in the Illlinois game it was probably that one, since that was one of the many games I watched today.

Either the refs really messed up or the announcers just explained the wrong thing. If you can't be the first to touch the ball then you'd never be able to throw the ball off the back of a defender as an inbounder and step in and grab the ball, which happens a couple times a year at every level of basketball.

https://youtu.be/naNJ3_PswVw

[rocky_warrior]

Either the refs really messed up or the announcers just explained the wrong thing. If you can't be the first to touch the ball then you'd never be able to throw the ball off the back of a defender as an inbounder and step in and grab the ball, which happens a couple times a year at every level of basketball.

https://youtu.be/naNJ3_PswVw

In that case isn't the first person to touch it the person whose back it hit?

[PGsHeroes32]

Either the refs really messed up or the announcers just explained the wrong thing. If you can't be the first to touch the ball then you'd never be able to throw the ball off the back of a defender as an inbounder and step in and grab the ball, which happens a couple times a year at every level of basketball.

https://youtu.be/naNJ3_PswVw

While, I obviously am just going off what I saw today and am not an expert myself I would explain your example by saying....the other team touched the ball then the in bounder grabbed it.

[wadesworld]

In that case isn't the first person to touch it the person whose back it hit?

I'd argue it's almost impossible to be quick enough to be fully established back in bounds before the ball is off of the defender's back.

Also, in the situation PG describes, it sounds like the original ball handler would then be the first person to be touching the ball after the guy going to get the ball from him reestablishes himself in bounds.

[rocky_warrior]

I'd argue it's almost impossible to be quick enough to be fully established back in bounds before the ball is off of the defender's back.

But again, you don't have to be quick.  You're the 2nd person touching the ball.  duh.  (define "establish").

You're just arguing now.  But you may have witnessed a case when the refs got it wrong - that happens.  edit - whoops conflating two different arguments.  Nevermind.  Did I mention good beer?

[BM1090]

I think it was called because he voluntarily ran out when he could have stayed in. Kind of like how it is a penalty when the gunner runs OB untouched in football and then impacts the play.

[Jockey]

Alright, going to have to watch it because in the game of basketball it is 100% the rule you just need to re-establish position in bounds before touching the ball. The only exception is if you are the person inbounding the ball then you cannot be the first to touch it.

I thought the same as you, but maybe the rule changed this year because Hogan's description is what happened. The player came back in bounds and took several steps before he caught the ball. The announcers said he couldn't be the 1st to touch it.

Never seen that call before.

[NCMUFan]

Cain is a special player.
Defensively, it does seem like it doesn't come naturally for him.
However, he is extremely smooth with incredible natural ability.
Not afraid to go get the put backs and defensive rebounds.
One of the teams best rebounders.

[The Sultan]

I think it was called because he voluntarily ran out when he could have stayed in. Kind of like how it is a penalty when the gunner runs OB untouched in football and then impacts the play.

^^^This is it right here^^^

Here is the rule quoted directly from the NCAA rulebook: 

"Section 3. Player Out of Bounds
Art. 1. A player who steps out of bounds under his own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation."

[MU82]

Cain is a special player.
Defensively, it does seem like it doesn't come naturally for him.
However, he is extremely smooth with incredible natural ability.
Not afraid to go get the put backs and defensive rebounds.
One of the teams best rebounders.

I like Cain, and he is very valuable when hitting open 3s and otherwise playing at his best, but I have seen no evidence in 3+ seasons to suggest he is more "special" than several other Marquette players -- most notably Garcia and Carton, but also Theo and quite possibly Lewis.

Jamal has skills that can help (and have helped) our team but also significant weaknesses, especially when he tries to do too much with the ball.

[mileskishnish72]

I have to agree with We R that Dawson should be jumping for the tip.

[HutchwasClutch]

I like Cain, and he is very valuable when hitting open 3s and otherwise playing at his best, but I have seen no evidence in 3+ seasons to suggest he is more "special" than several other Marquette players -- most notably Garcia and Carton, but also Theo and quite possibly Lewis.

Jamal has skills that can help (and have helped) our team but also significant weaknesses, especially when he tries to do too much with the ball.

Love how Jamal is attacking offensive glass so far.  Can really add value there with his athleticism.  He'll start knocking down his open looks from distance soon too.

He's a lousy defender still.  He couldn't guard Wallace at all when he was on him in the 2nd half. 

Agree with your assessment, we'll have to take some bad with the good, but I think good play from him may finally outweigh his negative play this season.

[MU82]

Love how Jamal is attacking offensive glass so far.  Can really add value there with his athleticism.  He'll start knocking down his open looks from distance soon too.

He's a lousy defender still.  He couldn't guard Wallace at all when he was on him in the 2nd half. 

Agree with your assessment, we'll have to take some bad with the good, but I think good play from him may finally outweigh his negative play this season.

I'll take exactly that -- hit open 3s at a 40% clip, make some alley-oop dunks, hit the boards. If he does those things, he can be a big help despite his defensive shortcomings.

He is a good athlete, so he should be a better defender. But I think it might be a case similar to that of Jamil -- despite otherwise outstanding athletic ability, he isn't very good at moving laterally and doesn't have great anticipation, so he has trouble staying in front of guys who probably aren't as athletic.

[HutchwasClutch]

I'll take exactly that -- hit open 3s at a 40% clip, make some alley-oop dunks, hit the boards. If he does those things, he can be a big help despite his defensive shortcomings.

He is a good athlete, so he should be a better defender. But I think it might be a case similar to that of Jamil -- despite otherwise outstanding athletic ability, he isn't very good at moving laterally and doesn't have great anticipation, so he has trouble staying in front of guys who probably aren't as athletic.

Nailed it on his primary defensive shortcomings, especially lack of seemingly any lateral quickness. 

Certainly can play a major role playing to his strengths. Really hope he puts those together finally on a consistent basis.

[naginiF]

This is Theo's team and that's absolutely fantastic.  This is a whole new Marquette.  I love it.

No fans at the games had plenty of negatives but one positive is getting to hear Theo QB the defense. Not sure if he was that vocal, or that much of a leader, last year but it's cool to get to hear.