General Big East Thread 20-21

[MU82]

I encourage you to rewatch Koby's body language in the last minute of yesterday's game. Specifically after he got tied up and gave a wave to brush off the coaching staff and also see how he reacted after he missed the first free throw up 2 before Butlers last attempt. It was frustrating to see a fifth year senior leader be so nonchalant about blowing another a big lead like that in the second half.  I should have directed the comment more towards those instances versus the whole team in general. Need senior leadership in those critical moments.

Ah ... so now you're saying Koby was "mailing it in" at the end of a win?

Your mailing it in comment came after the St. John's loss, as in, the reason Marquette lost is that the players were "mailing it in."

As for Koby's "nonchalance" upon missing his first of two free throws, you don't possibly think it could have been him trying to stay calm so that ... I don't know ... he could make the second? Which he did, thankfully.

[Lennys Tap]

But I take exception with your obviously serious observation that Marquette has the top coach and top program in the USA. I don't think we're any better than 3rd or 4th best.

Sometimes I get carried away, over exuberant and hyperbolic. Thanks for keeping it real, Mike!

[Galway Eagle]

And another Scooper said something about Wojo being "defeated."

I fully owned up to saying that due to the reports of his post games not having known anything myself. Idk why you're being an a$$ about it.

[Herman Cain]

If the Johnnies keep on performing well , MU's victory over them may end up as a quality win.

[MU82]

I fully owned up to saying that due to the reports of his post games not having known anything myself. Idk why you're being an a$$ about it.

Didn't mean to beat a dead horse. Sorry about that.

[shoothoops]

It would have been nice if Gillespie played like this vs us instead of looking like Steve Nash.

You have to guard him. You have to actually strategize to disrupt him and take him out of the game.

[shoothoops]

I don't understand some posters isolating one game or one loss for a good team as somehow justifying MUBB performance thus far.

Many good teams are going to lose a game once in a while. Is it fair game to also point out every win of the stronger performing teams. If so, that could take a while.

Marquette on the other hand, is what its record says it is right now. One game at a time and try to win every single game and we'll see where that winds up for MUBB.

[Dr. Blackheart]

You have to guard him. You have to actually strategize to disrupt him and take him out of the game.

And not with Theo on the high switch.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't understand some posters isolating one game or one loss for a good team as somehow justifying MUBB performance thus far.

Many good teams are going to lose a game once in a while. Is it fair game to also point out every win of the stronger performing teams. If so, that could take a while.

Marquette on the other hand, is what its record says it is right now. One game at a time and try to win every single game and we'll see where that winds up for MUBB.

I don't think that's what they are doing. 82 is repeatedly on record this year as wanting to fire Wojo, hell he said if he could he would have fired Wojo after the DePaul game and let Killings run things in the interim. He isn't trying to justify anything.

What 82 and others poke fun at is that there are those that make comments like Losing to DePaul is never acceptable, only a terrible coach could be down 18 to Georgetown, blowing a double digit second half lead is a fireable offense. There are plenty of posters who lose their minds over Marquette's single game results, regardless of the coach's record prior to that. Everyone agrees that Wojo's overall record is somewhere between uninspiring to fireable.

[shoothoops]

And not with Theo on the high switch.

St. John's was able to disrupt him a lot with Alexander. And, converting 15 turnovers into 19 points took pressure off of half court offense.

Going into the game, Villanova was number 1 nationally per game with fewest turnovers. (8) and St. John's was 3rd Nationally in steals per game (9.9)  Last night was a night for fast, athletic, tough pressure. It was Villanova's first game in Queens at SJU in 26 years. 2nd game after month off for COVID-19 pause.

[shoothoops]

I don't think that's what they are doing. 82 is repeatedly on record this year as wanting to fire Wojo, hell he said if he could he would have fired Wojo after the DePaul game and let Killings run things in the interim. He isn't trying to justify anything.

What 82 and others poke fun at is that there are those that make comments like Losing to DePaul is never acceptable, only a terrible coach could be down 18 to Georgetown, blowing a double digit second half lead is a fireable offense. There are plenty of posters who lose their minds over Marquette's single game results, regardless of the coach's record prior to that. Everyone agrees that Wojo's overall record is somewhere between uninspiring to fireable.

I understand, and, I wasn't thinking of MU82 in my post.

I suppose I have a tendency to look past some of the one time posters after losses, and/or the posters who only show up after losses. I have seen some regular posters do this.

I think we all, or almost all understand that every team will lose a game here snd there in upset fashion, etc...but some of those teams are significantly more consistent than Marquette.

MUBB has a fundamentals challenge. They are not consistently strong enough with the ball, moving the ball, and moving without the ball, both ends, making adjustments. Some of this is player development, some of it is recruiting. (I also see many posts saying recruiting isn't a factor, but for me roster construction is good enough at the guard/wing position. Some of it is physical, some of it is mental etc...

They are what they are, good enough in flashes, but that hasn't been nearly long enough or consistent enough over the season to be a solid NCAA team at this time.

Garcia, Lewis, and Carton have been typically inconsistent but promising new players. For me, that means the roster around them has to be better constructed to allow for that inconsistent but newcomer promise.

I don't see much improved 2/3 spots on the roster for next year at this time. (Addition and subtraction) The previous mentioned 3 players will expectedly be more polished which helps a lot. Add Aidoo and the front court looks good with some depth. But I don't see how MU will be much better if at all at the 2/3 next season. Sure the Freshmen guards will help but how much and where remains to be seen. If you aren't going to recruit athletic switchable players, fundamentals need to be sound, etc...with what you have.

[Dr. Blackheart]

St. John's was able to disrupt him a lot with Alexander. And, converting 15 turnovers into 19 points took pressure off of half court offense.

Going into the game, Villanova was number 1 nationally per game with fewest turnovers. (8) and St. John's was 3rd Nationally in steals per game (9.9)  Last night was a night for fast, athletic, tough pressure. It was Villanova's first game in Queens at SJU in 26 years. 2nd game after month off for COVID-19 pause.

Alexander is a good one and fun to watch. He brings energy on both ends all the time.  He has been very efficient his last five games too, really progressing.

Wojo is a combo guard guy with the Duke system. But, other than Traci, he hadn't signed a true PG which is more the BE style of play. I prefer Uptempo DJ versus Half Court DJ--I think his play would be more even and MU is better offensively.

[MuggsyB]

Lots of good points.  MU unlike St.J and other teams cannot generate offense from their defense.  They don't force turns and struggle with physical play on the perimeter without  fouling. We never draw charges and our traps are weak and easy to break. 

Alexander is a good one and fun to watch. He brings energy on both ends all the time.  He has been very efficient his last five games too, really progressing.

Wojo is a combo guard guy with the Duke system. But, other than Traci, he hadn't signed a true PG which is more the BE style of play. I prefer Uptempo DJ versus Half Court DJ--I think his play would be more even and MU is better offensively.

[Billy Hoyle]

It would have been nice if Gillespie played like this vs us instead of looking like Steve Nash.

then we need a defender to throw him off his game. Posh is one of the best defenders in the conference and took Gillespie out of the game. Kobe and Carton - not so much.

[MuggsyB]

then we need a defender to throw him off his game. Posh is one of the best defenders in the conference and took Gillespie out of the game. Kobe and Carton - not so much.

Wasn't Wojo DPOY at Duke?  Can he not scheme with either DJ or Koby to relentlessly hound Gillespie?  There is no reason they should be poor defensive players, especially DJ.

[MU82]

I don't think that's what they are doing. 82 is repeatedly on record this year as wanting to fire Wojo, hell he said if he could he would have fired Wojo after the DePaul game and let Killings run things in the interim. He isn't trying to justify anything.

What 82 and others poke fun at is that there are those that make comments like Losing to DePaul is never acceptable, only a terrible coach could be down 18 to Georgetown, blowing a double digit second half lead is a fireable offense. There are plenty of posters who lose their minds over Marquette's single game results, regardless of the coach's record prior to that. Everyone agrees that Wojo's overall record is somewhere between uninspiring to fireable.

Exactly.

I understand, and, I wasn't thinking of MU82 in my post.

I suppose I have a tendency to look past some of the one time posters after losses, and/or the posters who only show up after losses. I have seen some regular posters do this.

I think we all, or almost all understand that every team will lose a game here snd there in upset fashion, etc...but some of those teams are significantly more consistent than Marquette.

MUBB has a fundamentals challenge. They are not consistently strong enough with the ball, moving the ball, and moving without the ball, both ends, making adjustments. Some of this is player development, some of it is recruiting. (I also see many posts saying recruiting isn't a factor, but for me roster construction is good enough at the guard/wing position. Some of it is physical, some of it is mental etc...

They are what they are, good enough in flashes, but that hasn't been nearly long enough or consistent enough over the season to be a solid NCAA team at this time.

Garcia, Lewis, and Carton have been typically inconsistent but promising new players. For me, that means the roster around them has to be better constructed to allow for that inconsistent but newcomer promise.

I don't see much improved 2/3 spots on the roster for next year at this time. (Addition and subtraction) The previous mentioned 3 players will expectedly be more polished which helps a lot. Add Aidoo and the front court looks good with some depth. But I don't see how MU will be much better if at all at the 2/3 next season. Sure the Freshmen guards will help but how much and where remains to be seen. If you aren't going to recruit athletic switchable players, fundamentals need to be sound, etc...with what you have.

Some outstanding points in here. Unless one of next year's freshmen turns out to be a star or unless Perez/Akanno can have a breakout year - and even if then - the 2/3 is an area where Wojo needs to hit the transfer market hard if we're gonna be significantly better next season.

We should be in pretty good shape at the 4/5 if our two freshmen come back, if Oso develops and if Aidoo can play a little. That's some nice skill, size and depth.

But DJ is the only given at 1/2/3 ... and a whole lotta folks said when he was in the transfer portal that he only wanted to play one year. If he goes ... yikes.

[brewcity77]

Wasn't Wojo DPOY at Duke?  Can he not scheme with either DJ or Koby to relentlessly hound Gillespie?  There is no reason they should be poor defensive players, especially DJ.

Being good at something doesn't mean you are good at teaching that thing.

[MuggsyB]

Being good at something doesn't mean you are good at teaching that thing.

True dat. What a sad situation.

[MU82]

Being good at something doesn't mean you are good at teaching that thing.

And conversely, a lot of guys who played little to no competitive basketball have been good coaches.

[GoldenWarrior11]

The last day that both St. John's and Georgetown beat ranked opponents?  1992.  Wild. 

[shoothoops]

I once watched a Rick Majerus practice where he spent the better part of two hours getting a player to point his toe properly on defense.

[Billy Hoyle]

Wasn't Wojo DPOY at Duke?  Can he not scheme with either DJ or Koby to relentlessly hound Gillespie?  There is no reason they should be poor defensive players, especially DJ.

there is more than just being taught to be a good defender that makes one as good as someone like Posh. Lateral quickness is a big one, as is instinct.  Think about Dennis Rodman and Ben Wallace, they were such good rebounders because they studied angles and had instincts as to where a missed shot was going to go, as well as the length to beat out guys bigger than them. Could they teach others that? Maybe, but they also need the physical component.

Plus, players have to be willing to put in the work too. Wojo can coach them up but it doesn't mean the player will or even can perform.

[MU82]

Posh is gonna be a pain in the neck for BEast opponents for the next 3 years. Really like the way he plays. He reminds me a little of Tony Miller.

[Mr. Nielsen]

18-2 run by Connecticut. Seton Hall still up 38-36 on FOX.

Butler has come back to take the lead versus DePaul. 46-39. Games on FS1.

[Mr. Nielsen]

11-2 run by Providence. St. John's up 43-36. Games on FS1.