Masks

[Hards Alumni]

Of course lockdowns work.  If everyone stayed at home 100% of the time for who knows how long, no one would get or die from COVID.  So no food, no doctor appointments, no nothing but as soon as you list one exception, its over.

Trump is an idiot but lets not fool ourselves.  No one got it right.  Biden wouldn't of got it right either.  Less deaths?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  More economic hardship?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Saving grace for golden boy Biden is that he wasn't the president when this occurred. 

Its easy to say Trump got it wrong.  Yeah he did.  So has everyone else.  It would be different if every other country had minimal cases except us right now but that doesn't look to be the case.   

Sure it does.  Everyone else did better than the US.  Literally every other country.  We have the most cases.  The most deaths.  We did a terrible job.  And the guy in charge has hurt our response from day zero.

We can play the maybe/maybe not game all day, but worst in the world isn't something I'd like associated with the US. 

I have said this from the very start of this pandemic.  Here is what the plan should have been.

1.  Close borders.
2.  Allow people a month to prepare for 3 week total lockdown.  Medical only.  Groceries are delivery only, and people should have prepared.
3.  If you're sick, you stay at your house and ride it out if you can.  If you get too sick, you get to the hospital.

and then after the 3 weeks we are DONE.  We keep borders closed, and test anyone coming into the country, and force them to quarantine for two weeks.  Longer if they're positive.

My plan would have had us out of the woods in May.  Instead, here we are in October, with a ton of dead people, and a shattered economy, and we aren't even looking at the light at the end of the tunnel.

Problem is, people don't want to do what is hard.  They have to limp our society to it's doom instead of doing a two month wartime mobilization... because 'muh freedums'.

[muguru]

I have noticed we aren't near 3.2 million deaths.  But you JUST IN THIS POST said you're fine with 1% of people dying.  YOU SAID YOU'RE FINE WITH IT.  YOUR WORDS. 1% of 320 million people is 3.2 million.  That's what you're fine with.  Your words, not mine.

I'm not surprised that things baffle you.  I imagine your daily existence is filled with this sentiment.  Europe is blowing up with cases now because they got lazy in August and everyone traveled for their yearly holiday.  They flattened their curve and curtailed cases, and then got lazy.  I wish we had that sort of discipline.  Instead, we have insane people like you who claim (without scientific evidence) that masks don't work.  And that lockdowns don't work (they do).  You ingest that garbage from your preferred media that swears that it is everyone else that is lying to you. 

You're hopeless, bro.  Stick to MU basketball recruiting news.  Science and politics aren't your forte.

NEVER EVER EVER said that, but you and many others seem to perpetuate this myth, that if things were done right(in your views) there would have NEVER been a single death. That's what you are implying. A total and complete impossibility. 

[Pakuni]

And if you look at their rate of infection it’s no different, actually lower then a lot of the surrounding counties.  🤷‍♂️  I’m not arguing that masks are useless or shouldn’t be worn but if you look at infection rates locally, nationally, or even globally it doesn’t seem to make much of a difference. 

This just isn't true. There is tons of date to support the statement that masks make a difference.

To be clear, the science supports using masks, with recent studies suggesting that they could save lives in different ways: research shows that they cut down the chances of both transmitting and catching the coronavirus, and some studies hint that masks might reduce the severity of infection if people do contract the disease.


https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

[pacearrow02]

This just isn't true. There is tons of date to support the statement that masks make a difference.

To be clear, the science supports using masks, with recent studies suggesting that they could save lives in different ways: research shows that they cut down the chances of both transmitting and catching the coronavirus, and some studies hint that masks might reduce the severity of infection if people do contract the disease.


https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

Agree 100%, in theory it makes all the sense in the world.  Was just pointing out that when it comes to results and actual infection rate data that communities are seeing it doesn’t appear to make much of a difference.

[MUfan12]

To be clear, the science supports using masks, with recent studies suggesting that they could save lives in different ways: research shows that they cut down the chances of both transmitting and catching the coronavirus, and some studies hint that masks might reduce the severity of infection if people do contract the disease.


https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

I'm becoming more and more convinced that the real value in masks is more reducing the inoculum rather than truly limiting spread.

[SERocks]

SERicks, the nurse called in during an interview on WGN radio that Anna Davlantes was doing with McHenry County Board chair Jack Franks about the new restrictions- it is possible that it may get posted at some point on the WGN site.

Thanks.  I'll watch for it.

[Warriors4ever]

Replaying right now!!

[Warriors4ever]

One of his points is that when they get slammed with new admits, they cannot spend the time needed with the patients they already have.
Replay done now.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Sure it does.  Everyone else did better than the US.  Literally every other country.  We have the most cases.  The most deaths.  We did a terrible job.  And the guy in charge has hurt our response from day zero.

We can play the maybe/maybe not game all day, but worst in the world isn't something I'd like associated with the US. 

I have said this from the very start of this pandemic.  Here is what the plan should have been.

1.  Close borders.
2.  Allow people a month to prepare for 3 week total lockdown.  Medical only.  Groceries are delivery only, and people should have prepared.
3.  If you're sick, you stay at your house and ride it out if you can.  If you get too sick, you get to the hospital.

and then after the 3 weeks we are DONE.  We keep borders closed, and test anyone coming into the country, and force them to quarantine for two weeks.  Longer if they're positive.

My plan would have had us out of the woods in May.  Instead, here we are in October, with a ton of dead people, and a shattered economy, and we aren't even looking at the light at the end of the tunnel.

Problem is, people don't want to do what is hard.  They have to limp our society to it's doom instead of doing a two month wartime mobilization... because 'muh freedums'.

Right.  I have said it since the Spring.  Discipline on the front end would get us out of this earlier.  But we chose not to take the tough, short route.  We had to "LIBERATE" and all that did was make the short-term easier but make the road much longer and deadlier.

Look at what Germany is doing.  They are paying bars, restaurants, and other businesses where people congregate without masks to close for the next month, while keeping schools and shops open.  And when things get better, they will reopen.  This is an incredibly reasonable approach.

Our approach OTOH, is believing we are "turning the corner" and hoping and praying for an effective vaccine.  It's not a plan.

This is why other countries pity us.  This is why our "America First!" language is met with eyerolls around the world.  We'd be a laughingstock if it weren't so tragic.

[GooooMarquette]

I'm becoming more and more convinced that the real value in masks is more reducing the inoculum rather than truly limiting spread.

It doesn't have to be an either/or. Reducing the inoculum might very well lead to reduced spread, because if you breathe in a tiny amount of virus, you might clear it so quickly you'd never be contagious or test positive.

[Hards Alumni]

NEVER EVER EVER said that, but you and many others seem to perpetuate this myth, that if things were done right(in your views) there would have NEVER been a single death. That's what you are implying. A total and complete impossibility.

You're too stupid to argue with.  You said 99% of people survive.  Which means 1% don't.  And you also said it baffles you that people care about case numbers.  Well 1% of those people are going to die.  And you're fine with that.  God forbid you or someone you love is part of that 1%.

What is your solution?  Herd immunity?  Keep up the shlt show we have until we have a vaccine that 1/3 of the population won't take? 

You've already said masks and lockdowns don't work (you're wrong) so what do you propose?  You've got no plan.  Your leader has no plan.

#trump2020voter

[MUfan12]

It doesn't have to be an either/or. Reducing the inoculum might very well lead to reduced spread, because if you breathe in a tiny amount of virus, you might clear it so quickly you'd never be contagious or test positive.

Good point.

[jesmu84]

Right.  I have said it since the Spring.  Discipline on the front end would get us out of this earlier.  But we chose not to take the tough, short route.  We had to "LIBERATE" and all that did was make the short-term easier but make the road much longer and deadlier.

Look at what Germany is doing.  They are paying bars, restaurants, and other businesses where people congregate without masks to close for the next month, while keeping schools and shops open.  And when things get better, they will reopen.  This is an incredibly reasonable approach.

Our approach OTOH, is believing we are "turning the corner" and hoping and praying for an effective vaccine.  It's not a plan.

This is why other countries pity us.  This is why our "America First!" language is met with eyerolls around the world.  We'd be a laughingstock if it weren't so tragic.

Can you imagine the reaction if a politician even proposed the idea of nationalizing wages?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Can you imagine the reaction if a politician even proposed the idea of nationalizing wages?

It’s just the PPP expanded.

[#UnleashSean]

Sure it does.  Everyone else did better than the US.  Literally every other country.  We have the most cases.  The most deaths. 

USA actually ranks 13th in total cases when calculating ratio of infected per million and 10 in deaths (with plenty of other countries very close) and let's not get started with the whole who's reporting what.

So there's at least 9 countries worse.

[Pakuni]

USA actually ranks 13th in total cases when calculating ratio of infected per million and 10 in deaths (with plenty of other countries very close) and let's not get started with the whole who's reporting what.

So there's at least 9 countries worse.

Yeah, but among them are San Marino and Andorra.
Anyhow, we're pretty much in the bottom 10 percent. Given our resources, that's pitiful.

Of course, things probably would be much better if we weren't playing doctors more for every dead COVID patient.

[muguru]

You're too stupid to argue with.  You said 99% of people survive.  Which means 1% don't.  And you also said it baffles you that people care about case numbers.  Well 1% of those people are going to die.  And you're fine with that.  God forbid you or someone you love is part of that 1%.

What is your solution?  Herd immunity?  Keep up the shlt show we have until we have a vaccine that 1/3 of the population won't take? 

You've already said masks and lockdowns don't work (you're wrong) so what do you propose?  You've got no plan.  Your leader has no plan.

#trump2020voter

Locking down the country will NOT work. Look what Sweden did...no lock downs, no mask mandates and wah lah...they became the envy of other countries. Yes, they started out with a very high death rate, but it dissipated by doing nothing different. Just because you couldn't care less for those people/businesses that would lose their jobs/livelihoods with your mandated strict 3 month lock down, doesn't mean others don't. Not to mention the higher suicide rates(that's been proven), the drinking and drug abuse increases, the emotional trauma that comes from lock downs. These are ALL VERY real and proven things. Besides I can 100% guarantee you EVEN after your mandated 3 month strict lock down and mask wearing, that people would still get it. It's not a magic bullet.

My dad had covid about 3 weeks ago...had slight fever some sniffles for a couple days and it was done. Yes, he's one example, but still just sayin'. Life is a risk, everything we do daily is a risk, right??

I mean just because you wear a mask in your car alone and likely when you go to bed, doesn't mean everyone should have to do exactly like you do, or that it's the best way.

[Warriors4ever]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-herd-immunity-sweden-covid-cases-anders-tegnell-b1421541.html

Sweden’s version of Dr. Fauci blasts the idea of herd immunity without a vaccine. Also, their cases are rising, and on their TripAdvisor board, a local reported that some museums are closed, and guidelines have been issued telling people not to socialize outside their households, to limit trips from home, to not go to indoor places like restaurants, shops and museums, keep social distance....guidelines instead of rules because the Swedes will abide by them voluntarily ( the poster’s words, not mine). Unlike here.

[rocky_warrior]

Look what Sweden did...no lock downs, no mask mandates and wah lah...they became the envy of other countries. Yes, they started out with a very high death rate, but it dissipated by doing nothing different.

Sweden's done with it?  Certainly looks like their cases have spiked and deaths will follow in about 3 weeks unfortunately.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

I don't think many countries envied Sweden's approach.  Even Sweden admitted their initial strategy was wrong, and started recommending people take more precautions.

Glad to hear your father recovered without incident.

[GooooMarquette]

Sweden's done with it?  Certainly looks like their cases have spiked and deaths will follow in about 3 weeks unfortunately.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

I don't think many countries envied Sweden's approach.  Even Sweden admitted their initial strategy was wrong, and started recommending people take more precautions.

Glad to hear your father recovered without incident.

Yep. And the data showed that their economy did not fare any better than the other countries in Scandinavia.

Bad experiment.

[MU82]

Sweden's done with it?  Certainly looks like their cases have spiked and deaths will follow in about 3 weeks unfortunately.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

I don't think many countries envied Sweden's approach.  Even Sweden admitted their initial strategy was wrong, and started recommending people take more precautions.

This.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-herd-immunity-sweden-covid-cases-anders-tegnell-b1421541.html

Sweden’s version of Dr. Fauci blasts the idea of herd immunity without a vaccine. Also, their cases are rising, and on their TripAdvisor board, a local reported that some museums are closed, and guidelines have been issued telling people not to socialize outside their households, to limit trips from home, to not go to indoor places like restaurants, shops and museums, keep social distance....guidelines instead of rules because the Swedes will abide by them voluntarily ( the poster’s words, not mine). Unlike here.

And this.

Beyond that ... even after saying, "Let our people die; we're going to save our economy," Sweden's economy STILL tanked.

It turns out that most sensible folks change their behavior when there is a deadly, highly contagious virus out there. Even if a city or state or country says, "Go wild," so many people opt not to go wild that the economy can't help but be adversely affected.

Control the virus, save the economy. There are no shortcuts. Sorry, not even the miraculous hydroxycloroquine that Trump and guru's girlfriend, Dr. Demon Seed, was pushing.

[Hards Alumni]

Locking down the country will NOT work. Look what Sweden did...no lock downs, no mask mandates and wah lah...they became the envy of other countries. Yes, they started out with a very high death rate, but it dissipated by doing nothing different. Just because you couldn't care less for those people/businesses that would lose their jobs/livelihoods with your mandated strict 3 month lock down, doesn't mean others don't. Not to mention the higher suicide rates(that's been proven), the drinking and drug abuse increases, the emotional trauma that comes from lock downs. These are ALL VERY real and proven things. Besides I can 100% guarantee you EVEN after your mandated 3 month strict lock down and mask wearing, that people would still get it. It's not a magic bullet.

My dad had covid about 3 weeks ago...had slight fever some sniffles for a couple days and it was done. Yes, he's one example, but still just sayin'. Life is a risk, everything we do daily is a risk, right??

I mean just because you wear a mask in your car alone and likely when you go to bed, doesn't mean everyone should have to do exactly like you do, or that it's the best way.

First things first, Sweden has been beaten to death here.  You're out of your element.  You can look at the numbers yourself, but you'd rather listen to what a couple of freaks on the internet say.  And they're liars.  They're bait for objectively stupid people (you).  Second, I said 3 WEEKS.  Reading is fundamental.  Third, we've been at this for 7 months at this point, and you still can't come up with a plan.  My plan had this basically over in May.

As for the bolded part, they don't have to, but yes, it is the best way.  If people acted like me, maybe we could have had a summer.  And no I don't wear a mask in my car, home, or to bed.  I went to school for science.  Two things you didn't.  So kindly, screw off with your idiotic opinions.  You add nothing to the conversation, and you're arguing with people who are actually qualified, and far far more intelligent than you can dream of.  The problem here, is you thinking you're winning this argument instead of making a total fool of yourself.

You're the dumbest person I don't know.  May God have mercy on your black soul for wishing death on 3.2 million of your fellow Americans.

[tower912]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd-sA_XuMYI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbIYm-yS_d0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXT3AFpj7UU

[shoothoops]

Green Bay, WI yesterday:

https://twitter.com/JDiamond1/status/1322273081507880961?s=19

[shoothoops]

Suburban Atlanta.

Kelly Loeffler said everyone was wearing a mask at her 50 person steakhouse gathering. Let's check the video:

https://twitter.com/alizaslav/status/1322569246958866438?s=19