Masks

[mu03eng]

All very logical and rooted in science, so naturally I agree.

As much as anything, a person wearing a mask when he or she approaches another person simply signals, "I care about you and your health." In addition to being good health practice, it's good manners - akin to not coughing or sneezing into somebody's face.

There probably aren't 2 Americans who think it's patriotic or "freedom" to sneeze into another person's face. That millions of people think it's somehow patriotic to not wear a mask when encountering a fellow American during a deadly pandemic ... it's more than a little infuriating.

I don't disagree about the signaling, but I also assume that some people are forgetful, especially outdoors. This is a simple application of Hanlon's Razor.

I mean I know I'm super anal about having and wearing a mask and even I've forgotten to mask up during a brief outdoor interface (mostly golf courses). humans are humans after all.

[Johnny B]

i guess that freindships going on hiatus eh

[mu03eng]

To add one more piece - he did this the day after Evers mandated masks.

I have never in my life had any problem with anyone's politics - until now. As I'm sure you know when working in corporate America, you run into more republicans than Dems. So I would guess that I had more R friends than D friends. For many, I had no idea what their politics were.

But that has changed, somewhat. I try not to associate with trumpers. At all. I wouldn't even call them Rs as they no longer espouse what they have have always said they believed it. It is just a cult of personality now, no longer a "political party".

Probably shouldn't discuss this point as I've largely walked away from the board as unreadable for all sorts of reasons......but ostracizing and/or ignoring a whole class of people is part of how we get into these messes. Just because someone is a Trump supporter doesn't mean A) they can't be talked to reasonably or B) that they are right or wrong. I'd make the same argument if someone was on here talking about ignoring Antifa or AOC followers or whatever the equivalent is on the other side. All this tribalism is exactly why the science of things like masks, treatments, etc has become twisted and perverted.

[GooooMarquette]

Probably shouldn't discuss this point as I've largely walked away from the board as unreadable for all sorts of reasons......but ostracizing and/or ignoring a whole class of people is part of how we get into these messes.

Am I the only person who sees the contradiction here?

I for one hope you don't give up and leave, as I generally respect your posts even when I don't agree with them. But c'mon - you can't admit you may leave out of frustration and then criticize people who ignore 'the other side' out of the exact same type of frustration.

[mu03eng]

Am I the only person who sees the contradiction here?

I for one hope you don't give up and leave, as I generally respect your posts even when I don't agree with them. But c'mon - you can't admit you may leave out of frustration and then criticize people who ignore 'the other side' out of the exact same type of frustration.

distinction is one is talking to real people and the other is typing on a message board that really doesn't matter much in the grand order of things (especially when the covid board is like the tertiary purpose of MUScoop at best). Additionally, this isn't about me ignoring any one side, this is about removing myself from all sides in what has become a pretty toxic and unproductive discussion (even by Scoop standards)

[GooooMarquette]

distinction is one is talking to real people and the other is typing on a message board that really doesn't matter much in the grand order of things (especially when the covid board is like the tertiary purpose of MUScoop at best). Additionally, this isn't about me ignoring any one side, this is about removing myself from all sides in what has become a pretty toxic and unproductive discussion (even by Scoop standards)

I don't disagree about how toxic some of the threads have become. But then why do people have to pay attention to 'real people' who are Trump or AOC supporters, when discussions between those groups become equally (probably even more) toxic?

Sometimes, it's easier just to cast your vote and let the chips fall where they may....

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

My town newspaper that gets mailed to everyone ran this cartoon a few weeks ago.
I thought it was pretty creative.

[Jockey]

Probably shouldn't discuss this point as I've largely walked away from the board as unreadable for all sorts of reasons......but ostracizing and/or ignoring a whole class of people is part of how we get into these messes. Just because someone is a Trump supporter doesn't mean A) they can't be talked to reasonably or B) that they are right or wrong. I'd make the same argument if someone was on here talking about ignoring Antifa or AOC followers or whatever the equivalent is on the other side. All this tribalism is exactly why the science of things like masks, treatments, etc has become twisted and perverted.

You’re post taking down surgeon is a Scoop masterpiece. That is how I feel about all trumpers.

[Mutaman]

I'd make the same argument if someone was on here talking about ignoring Antifa or AOC followers or whatever the equivalent is on the other side.

I'd be interested in hearing someone support an argument that there is an "equivalent ... on the other side".

[shoothoops]

Seoul, South Korea 3 story Powerful Banner Ad for Masks:

https://twitter.com/vicjkim/status/1300646503950594048?s=19

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I'd be interested in hearing someone support an argument that there is an "equivalent ... on the other side".

The media's willingness to make false equivalences has had a disastrous effect on the U.S., IMO.

[Skatastrophy]

Right, and I knew some unfiltered air was getting out, but like I said - it's the same with a surgical mask.  Scientifically - I don't see the difference, and I'd be interested to see a study on "droplet release" from both kinds of masks.

I will be nice and comply with my work and any other requirements (I mostly wear cloth there anyway - the breath much easier!  Hah.).  But I'm not sure the science is adding up on this one.

Ask and you shall receive. Not damning, but not great.

https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0022968

> Overall, the visuals presented here indicate that face shields and masks with exhale valves may not be as effective as regular face masks in restricting the spread of aerosolized droplets.

[shoothoops]

Face shields ans valved masks:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1301006981226999808?s=19

[rocky_warrior]

Ask and you shall receive. Not damning, but not great.

https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0022968

> Overall, the visuals presented here indicate that face shields and masks with exhale valves may not be as effective as regular face masks in restricting the spread of aerosolized droplets.

Agreed (not damning., not great).  The more surprising part was the difference in the 2 surgical masks:

On the other hand, the second surgical mask (brand “B”), which is shown in Fig. 7 (Multimedia view) displays significantly higher leakage of droplets through the mask material, and does not appear to be as effective as the first surgical mask (brand “A”) in the restricting droplet spread. This indicates that even among commercially available masks, which may appear to be similar superficially, there can be significant underlying differences in the quality and type of materials used for manufacturing the masks.

[shoothoops]

Iowa.

https://twitter.com/TheTattooedProf/status/1301700888772435968?s=19

[shoothoops]

At an airport hangar, in Latrobe, Pennsylvania:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1301668168805552128

[MU82]

Remember when the emperor FINALLY started saying all Americans, including his supporters, need to start wearing masks?

That was a heck of a 15 minutes, hey?

Now it's back to Mouth-Breathers R Us. Who will be the next Herman Cain? Who will be the next hundred or thousand Herman Cains?

[MU82]

Our effen "leader":

At the rally, Mr. Trump also mocked his Democratic opponent, former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., for wearing a mask, and suggested it was a sign he has a psychological need to feel safe.

“Did you ever see a man who likes to mask as much as him?” Mr. Trump asked the crowd, to laughter, after offering a caveat that people should wash their hands and wear masks in close quarters.

“A lot of times he has it hanging down because it gives him a feeling of security,” Mr. Trump said, bringing his hand to his ear to imitate how Mr. Biden’s mask drapes one side of his face when he takes it off.

“If I was a psychiatrist, I would say this guy has some big issues. I don’t know. Hanging down,” Mr. Trump said. Until Thursday night, Mr. Trump had been more subdued about mask-wearing to prevent the coronavirus. After months of playing down the coronavirus and making fun of people who wore protective masks, the president had to be persuaded to advocate mask-wearing, which top health experts have said is crucial to limiting the spread of Covid-19.

That's funny, because a shrink would have a field day with the Narcissist In Chief.

187K dead Americans on his watch. Millions with medical conditions that might be permanent on his watch. Tens of millions unemployed on his watch.

"They are dying. That's true. It is what it is."

But sure, let's make fun of a leader being a good role model for mask-wearing. No wonder the VAST majority of Americans in every single poll say they trust Biden more on handing the pandemic.

[Jockey]

A new USA Today poll today shows 2/3 of Americans will be hesitant to get a vaccine.

I know for sure that I will not get the vaccine under trump’s watch.

[Jockey]

Remember when the emperor FINALLY started saying all Americans, including his supporters, need to start wearing masks?

That was a heck of a 15 minutes, hey?

Now it's back to Mouth-Breathers R Us. Who will be the next Herman Cain? Who will be the next hundred or thousand Herman Cains?

I think he just meant that you don’t need a mask when you vote from home by mail.

He supports them when you go to the polls to cast your second ballot.

[Hards Alumni]

A new USA Today poll today shows 2/3 of Americans will be hesitant to get a vaccine.

I know for sure that I will not get the vaccine under trump’s watch.

 

If the scientists say it is safe and effective and you don't get it because of Trump, maybe it is time for some self reflection.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

If the scientists say it is safe and effective and you don't get it because of Trump, maybe it is time for some self reflection.

Yeah.  Follow the science...until it conflicts with my political beliefs.

[Skatastrophy]

If the scientists say it is safe and effective and you don't get it because of Trump, maybe it is time for some self reflection.

Hahn (head of the FDA) gained some points with me when he walked back his plasma therapy comments.

The FDA has sped up the timeline for a COVID vaccine compared to normal drug approval, and as long as I can trust Hahn then it doesn't matter whatever the rest of the administration is getting themselves into.

To come to Jockey's defense, though, accelerated medicine rollouts when under tremendous pressure by anti-science politians to get something done by the election cycle doesn't engender confidence. I do not believe that the larger administration cares about the health and wellbeing of Americans.

[Jockey]

If the scientists say it is safe and effective and you don't get it because of Trump, maybe it is time for some self reflection.

You know as well as anyone that trump controls both the CDC and FDA and they say whatever trump tells them to say. It hasn't even been a week since the CDC said it is no longer necessary to get tested if you have been exposed to Covid. If you fall for THAT science, then maybe you will fall for anything.

If you are ready to put up with the same consequences as when Pres. Ford rushed a vaccine IN AN ELECTION YEAR, then go for it. More people died from taking the vaccine (the scientists, under pressure from the White House, said it was safe) than from the Swine flu that the vaccine was supposed to prevent.

Until then, I WILL trust real science. I WILL NOT trust science that is pushed out by a lying, science denier who manipulates any data he receives to glorify himself.

[Warriors4ever]

I trust Dr. Murphy who has been appearing each morning on WGN -tv on their morning news, he is an expert in infectious diseases from Northwestern and he said this week that he was ‘done’ with the CDC. When he says it’s ok, then I will happily line up.