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Author Topic: Wojo to Duke odds  (Read 6162 times)

Small Orange Soda

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #50 on: May 29, 2020, 06:33:17 PM »
Why is it assumed that MU is.more than that?

Because the last two coaches won tournament games and didn't collapse down the stretch with their best teams.
"When you're the leader of a group or an organization, you hold your kids accountable but the main person you need to hold accountable is me."  -Wojo

Elonsmusk

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #51 on: May 29, 2020, 07:06:28 PM »
He will be a legit candidate. K really likes him. K lobbied hard for him to get MU job. Like him or not, Wojo will be a candidate and will go if offered.

I agree with this.  Which also makes the original hire questionable.  This upcoming season will be a pivotal one for Wojo - if it happens.  He lucked out some this past season with the tournament getting cancelled, as all signs pointed toward another first round exit. 

Let's see what Wojo can do without a two-time All-American who was as ball/shot dominant as there has ever been at the high major level.  Perhaps we play better team ball.  Or, perhaps Wojo gets totally exposed.
No doubt there are cultural differences, but sports is important for many Asians.

muguru

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #52 on: May 29, 2020, 07:30:34 PM »
I agree with this.  Which also makes the original hire questionable.  This upcoming season will be a pivotal one for Wojo - if it happens.  He lucked out some this past season with the tournament getting cancelled, as all signs pointed toward another first round exit. 

Let's see what Wojo can do without a two-time All-American who was as ball/shot dominant as there has ever been at the high major level.  Perhaps we play better team ball.  Or, perhaps Wojo gets totally exposed.

I honestly think this year is when we find out what kind of Coach Wojo really is. Let's see what he does.
“Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity.” Will Smith

We live in a society that rewards mediocrity , I detest mediocrity - David Goggi

I want this quote to serve as a reminder to the vast majority of scoop posters in regards to the MU BB program.

NorthernDancerColt

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #53 on: May 29, 2020, 07:55:54 PM »
Why is it assumed that MU is.more than that?


Some people see things as they are and ask WHY?
Others see things as they could be and ask WHY NOT?!



-Robert F. Kennedy
(borrowing from JFK who borrowed from George Bernard Shaw)
Zenyatta has a lot....a lot... of ground to make up. She gets there from here she’d be a super horse......what’s this.....Zenyatta hooked to the grandstand side....Zenyatta flying on the outside....this....is...un-belieeeeeevable!...looked impossible at the top of the stretch...

4everwarriors

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #54 on: May 29, 2020, 09:10:59 PM »
Ax knot watt yur coach kan due four yur skool, ax watt yur skool kan due four yur coach, aina?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

Marq3332

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #55 on: May 30, 2020, 04:28:37 AM »
We all have tunnel vision when it comes to MU hoops, and for good reason. We all desperately want to win big again, and then to stay on top for years and years. Nothing wrong with that, obviously.

I wish Wojo had done better to date. I gave him a lot of rope, and I still don't blame him exclusively for our program not getting at least back to Buzz level, but he is the man in charge and the buck needs to stop with him. Although I still defend him sometimes from what I feel are baseless attacks, I am no longer a solid "projo." It's time for him to win. Hell, it's past time.

Having said all that ...

Take a good look at that SI article. It was filled with praise for Wojo. The author thinks Wojo is doing a fine job at Marquette. And based on what I've seen and read over the past few years from those outside the MU universe -- and I consider Scoop to very much be inside the MU universe -- that writer's view is pretty typical.

Many of us are down on Wojo to varying degrees because we are very close to the situation and we want to win big. But those who think Wojo has turned Marquette into some kind of national laughingstock ... I simply think those Scoopers have too much tunnel vision to have even one iota of objectivity. Based on evidence I've seen, Wojo seems pretty well-respected.

Oh, and I doubt he would have been able to land the recruiting class he did if the national perception of him was that he was running a joke of a program.
the problem is, many folks outside the program have no clue. They have a perception, which isn’t reality. Or, they ‘know’ a guy, then state an opinion off that. Maybe Scoopers struggle with objectivity, but those on the outside struggle with reality.

HutchwasClutch

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #56 on: May 30, 2020, 08:02:52 AM »
the problem is, many folks outside the program have no clue. They have a perception, which isn’t reality. Or, they ‘know’ a guy, then state an opinion off that. Maybe Scoopers struggle with objectivity, but those on the outside struggle with reality.

Well said and correct. I’m not about to take seriously opinions about our program from people like this glorified Duke blogger on SI.

tower912

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #57 on: May 30, 2020, 08:13:14 AM »
Instagram posts like the one he just made make him even more desirable for Duke.   And the nationwide perception is always going to be the 102 wins in 5 years.   

This is like the inverse of when people felt that MU wasn't getting the proper respect nationally.   Now the argument is the coach is getting too much respect nationally.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

BLM

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #58 on: May 30, 2020, 08:19:06 AM »
“Why would I ever listen to somebody who doesn’t have a vested interest. I know better and Wojo sucks!”

If there were articles from the exact same source saying Wojo sucked people would be touting it as the Gospel according to Jesus Christ himself.
Black Lives Matter

WarriorDad

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #59 on: May 30, 2020, 08:26:35 AM »
“Why would I ever listen to somebody who doesn’t have a vested interest. I know better and Wojo sucks!”

If there were articles from the exact same source saying Wojo sucked people would be touting it as the Gospel according to Jesus Christ himself.

This is correct and it isn’t only on this topic on this message board.  We all use sources to validate our beliefs.
“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”
— Plato

BLM

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #60 on: May 30, 2020, 08:31:00 AM »
This is correct and it isn’t only on this topic on this message board.  We all use sources to validate our beliefs.

Except for you. The person screaming about how we need to get away from partisanship...while also screaming he’s never voted for anything but a democrat in his entire life. You just look for facts. Doesn’t matter which side, look at all the sides. No need for validation. Just the truth for you.
Black Lives Matter

MU82

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #61 on: May 30, 2020, 10:08:50 AM »
You're not wrong.  But other fanbases would understandably (and this includes our own) be wary of a coach who watched his two best teams lose six of their last seven games, even if he did make the tournament three of his last four (and got demolished in the two tourney games he played).  There are serious questions that need to be answered as to why that happened, and the shrugs and deflection of a certain segment of our fanbase probably wouldn't fly in the interview room.

I wasn't saying our fans shouldn't be "wary" of Wojo. I wonder if he is our long-term solution myself, and I was a pretty strong "projo" until fairly recently. But as you know, that wasn't the point I was making, and I appreciate you saying I wasn't wrong.

the problem is, many folks outside the program have no clue. They have a perception, which isn’t reality. Or, they ‘know’ a guy, then state an opinion off that. Maybe Scoopers struggle with objectivity, but those on the outside struggle with reality.

Perhaps, but it isn't just "some blogger SI is using." It is Bilas. It is Bardo. It is Jay Wright. It is other national media and/or basketball people. Each observer's opinion can be dismissed for one reason or another ("Bilas loves all Dookies," etc) by those who want to dismiss. But I believe, based on what I have read and heard, that Wojo is pretty well-regarded nationally by people who know basketball.

Doesn't mean Scoopers have to agree. I am not saying that at all. But we have many folks who quickly say "I wish Coach So-and-so was our guy," even though that guy might have proven no more than Wojo has as a P6 head coach. Again, it's the human tendency to want whatever we don't have.
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Uncle Rico

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #62 on: May 30, 2020, 10:17:00 AM »
I wasn't saying our fans shouldn't be "wary" of Wojo. I wonder if he is our long-term solution myself, and I was a pretty strong "projo" until fairly recently. But as you know, that wasn't the point I was making, and I appreciate you saying I wasn't wrong.

Perhaps, but it isn't just "some blogger SI is using." It is Bilas. It is Bardo. It is Jay Wright. It is other national media and/or basketball people. Each observer's opinion can be dismissed for one reason or another ("Bilas loves all Dookies," etc) by those who want to dismiss. But I believe, based on what I have read and heard, that Wojo is pretty well-regarded nationally by people who know basketball.

Doesn't mean Scoopers have to agree. I am not saying that at all. But we have many folks who quickly say "I wish Coach So-and-so was our guy," even though that guy might have proven no more than Wojo has as a P6 head coach. Again, it's the human tendency to want whatever we don't have.

I wouldn’t put much stock into Jay Wright saying that.  Bobby Knight used to praise Steve Yoder all the time, too
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Elonsmusk

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #63 on: May 30, 2020, 10:23:48 AM »
Instagram posts like the one he just made make him even more desirable for Duke.   And the nationwide perception is always going to be the 102 wins in 5 years.   

This is like the inverse of when people felt that MU wasn't getting the proper respect nationally.   Now the argument is the coach is getting too much respect nationally.

Pretty funny.... and true Tower.
No doubt there are cultural differences, but sports is important for many Asians.

cheebs09

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #64 on: May 30, 2020, 10:38:52 AM »
I think Wojo thought to be a leading candidate for Duke shows a little of how unsuccessful the Coach K tree has been. When talking Wojo replacements, we talk about people with MU/Wisconsin ties. For Duke, it’s natural to look at Coach K/Duke ties. There’s not really a Coach with Duke ties tearing up the NCAA.

WhiteTrash

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #65 on: May 30, 2020, 10:43:47 AM »
I think Wojo thought to be a leading candidate for Duke shows a little of how unsuccessful the Coach K tree has been. When talking Wojo replacements, we talk about people with MU/Wisconsin ties. For Duke, it’s natural to look at Coach K/Duke ties. There’s not really a Coach with Duke ties tearing up the NCAA.
+1,000

MU82

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #66 on: May 30, 2020, 11:55:31 AM »
I wouldn’t put much stock into Jay Wright saying that.  Bobby Knight used to praise Steve Yoder all the time, too

I agree, Rico.

If it were just Bilas or just Wright or just "this SI blogger" or just one or two people, I'd dismiss all of them. But I think it's pretty hard to find a national basketball "voice" saying, "Wojciechowski's program at Marquette has become a laughingstock." Much more likely to say he's doing a good job.

And again, I'm not saying we here have to agree with that ... though I also don't believe his record the last 4 years makes us a laughingstock or even a mediocrity. I just want more, as a Marquette fan.
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willie warrior

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #67 on: May 30, 2020, 04:52:20 PM »
Take him. Please.
Yes, and take the dead green horse he rode in on, as well as his power point.

warriorjoe

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #68 on: May 30, 2020, 06:51:42 PM »
I was a longtime subscriber to SI, but decided to stop subscribing three years ago. Instead of reading SI or ESPN, The Magazine, I am catching up on reading books that have sat on my shelf for a while.

In addition to great reporting on the championships and sports seasons, Sports Illustrated featured some of the best writers I have ever read in my lifetime: George Plimpton, Robert W. Creamer, Roy Blunt, Dan Jenkins, Kurt Vonnegut, Ron Fimrite, Frank Deford, Gary Smith, Jack McCallum, William Nack, Jackie McMullan, and even our own Steve Rushin.

Unfortunately, the magazine's pieces today seem to be drive by agendas. I guess the days of "Just the facts, ma'am" reporting are over.

Sports Illustrated, once America's best written sports magazine.

May SI rest in peace.

Go Warriors!

Uncle Rico

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #69 on: May 30, 2020, 07:00:53 PM »
Yes, and take the dead green horse he rode in on, as well as his power point.

Thanks, Willie
Stairs Are Scary

Small Orange Soda

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #70 on: May 30, 2020, 07:40:16 PM »
I wasn't saying our fans shouldn't be "wary" of Wojo. I wonder if he is our long-term solution myself, and I was a pretty strong "projo" until fairly recently. But as you know, that wasn't the point I was making, and I appreciate you saying I wasn't wrong.

Oh, I understand that you wonder if he's our long term solution as well.  Question, though: How would you feel if the next six years played out just like the first six?
"When you're the leader of a group or an organization, you hold your kids accountable but the main person you need to hold accountable is me."  -Wojo

Lennys Tap

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #71 on: May 30, 2020, 09:29:57 PM »
I wasn't saying our fans shouldn't be "wary" of Wojo. I wonder if he is our long-term solution myself, and I was a pretty strong "projo" until fairly recently. But as you know, that wasn't the point I was making, and I appreciate you saying I wasn't wrong.

Perhaps, but it isn't just "some blogger SI is using." It is Bilas. It is Bardo. It is Jay Wright. It is other national media and/or basketball people. Each observer's opinion can be dismissed for one reason or another ("Bilas loves all Dookies," etc) by those who want to dismiss. But I believe, based on what I have read and heard, that Wojo is pretty well-regarded nationally by people who know basketball.

Doesn't mean Scoopers have to agree. I am not saying that at all. But we have many folks who quickly say "I wish Coach So-and-so was our guy," even though that guy might have proven no more than Wojo has as a P6 head coach. Again, it's the human tendency to want whatever we don't have.

Mike

MU had 4 coaches over a 25 year period prior to Wojo. Even when you give Wojo a mulligan for year#1 here is where Wojo stands in a 5 man race:

Overall winning % :  4th, ahead of only KO, who inherited the worst MU program in 60 years.
Conference winning % : 5th (last)
NCAA tournament wins : 5th (last)

The previous four coaches had a combined conference winning % of .645. Even tossing out Wojo’s first year his conference winning % is over 100 points lower (.528).

The previous four coaches all won games in the NCAA tournament, totally 16 wins. They made the final 32 3 times, the S16 3 times, the E8 1 time and the FF one time. Wojo hasn’t won a game in the tourney.

KO, Crean and Buzz all won conference regular season titles. Deane won a conference tournament title. Zip for Wojo.

It is beyond a shadow of a doubt that our program has declined under Wojo. I’m not saying that his underperformance should be fireable, but the idea that being the 5th most successful MU coach (out of 5) over the last 25 years is a resume’ builder for the Duke job is laughable. Maybe K anoints him, but he certainly hasn’t earned it.


MU82

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #72 on: May 30, 2020, 09:58:17 PM »
Oh, I understand that you wonder if he's our long term solution as well.  Question, though: How would you feel if the next six years played out just like the first six?

I'll let you know when if that happens. I'm not a big fan of the hypothetical-situation game.

Mike

MU had 4 coaches over a 25 year period prior to Wojo. Even when you give Wojo a mulligan for year#1 here is where Wojo stands in a 5 man race:

Overall winning % :  4th, ahead of only KO, who inherited the worst MU program in 60 years.
Conference winning % : 5th (last)
NCAA tournament wins : 5th (last)

The previous four coaches had a combined conference winning % of .645. Even tossing out Wojo’s first year his conference winning % is over 100 points lower (.528).

The previous four coaches all won games in the NCAA tournament, totally 16 wins. They made the final 32 3 times, the S16 3 times, the E8 1 time and the FF one time. Wojo hasn’t won a game in the tourney.

KO, Crean and Buzz all won conference regular season titles. Deane won a conference tournament title. Zip for Wojo.

It is beyond a shadow of a doubt that our program has declined under Wojo. I’m not saying that his underperformance should be fireable, but the idea that being the 5th most successful MU coach (out of 5) over the last 25 years is a resume’ builder for the Duke job is laughable. Maybe K anoints him, but he certainly hasn’t earned it.



OK, Lenny. I understand why you and others (including me, to a degree) are unsatisfied with Wojo. And I never said one thing about him being a legit candidate to replace K; like you, I  doubt he'd be high on their list.

None of that was what either of my previous posts were about.

Can you show some evidence that I was wrong about the national perception of him? Are there a bunch of articles/columns from national media saying he's in over his head, video clips of TV types saying he hasn't done well at Marquette, or anything from his fellow coaches saying anything but positive things about him?
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Small Orange Soda

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #73 on: May 30, 2020, 10:05:35 PM »
Mike

MU had 4 coaches over a 25 year period prior to Wojo. Even when you give Wojo a mulligan for year#1 here is where Wojo stands in a 5 man race:

Overall winning % :  4th, ahead of only KO, who inherited the worst MU program in 60 years.
Conference winning % : 5th (last)
NCAA tournament wins : 5th (last)

The previous four coaches had a combined conference winning % of .645. Even tossing out Wojo’s first year his conference winning % is over 100 points lower (.528).

The previous four coaches all won games in the NCAA tournament, totally 16 wins. They made the final 32 3 times, the S16 3 times, the E8 1 time and the FF one time. Wojo hasn’t won a game in the tourney.

KO, Crean and Buzz all won conference regular season titles. Deane won a conference tournament title. Zip for Wojo.

It is beyond a shadow of a doubt that our program has declined under Wojo. I’m not saying that his underperformance should be fireable, but the idea that being the 5th most successful MU coach (out of 5) over the last 25 years is a resume’ builder for the Duke job is laughable. Maybe K anoints him, but he certainly hasn’t earned it.

+1,00,000.

This is the best summation of those of us who are disappointed in Wojo.  He's certainly not bad, but we've obviously seen better.  And it's completely reasonable to ask at this point, is he going to get better?  And if you say yes, how long are you willing to kick the can down the road?  If Carton doesn't get a waiver, frankly, we're screwed.  Can we judge Wojo if so?  There are people like Cheeks/WarriorDad/Ahole and Wades who will defend Wojo at every turn.

We used to win tourney games.  Now we're bragging about making it (and getting humiliated).  Until that changes, the Projos have nothing to defend.
"When you're the leader of a group or an organization, you hold your kids accountable but the main person you need to hold accountable is me."  -Wojo

Small Orange Soda

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Re: Wojo to Duke odds
« Reply #74 on: May 30, 2020, 10:07:33 PM »
I'll let you know when if that happens. I'm not a big fan of the hypothetical-situation game.

Zero tourney wins, his two best teams dismantled down the stretch.  Lemme know how you feel about that.
"When you're the leader of a group or an organization, you hold your kids accountable but the main person you need to hold accountable is me."  -Wojo

 

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