COVID Economy

[Jockey]

If these executives actually paid income tax on their compensation it wouldn't be such a problem. But it's rich people who wrote the tax codes.

Most of the compensation is NOT in the form of a salary where they would be required to pay Federal Income tax. Instead it it stock options or something similar and then they borrow money off of that for their money and a write off.

Jeff Bezos once claimed child tax credit even though his net worth was $18 Billion. In 2011, he owed nothing in FIT. That same year he also received a $4,000 child tax credit, according to Business Insider, per ProPublica.

[lawdog77]

Jeff Bezos once claimed child tax credit even though his net worth was $18 Billion. In 2011, he owed nothing in FIT. That same year he also received a $4,000 child tax credit, according to Business Insider, per ProPublica.

I assume you know the difference between net worth and income

[Jockey]

I assume you know the difference between net worth and income

Of course.

Bezos is an example of how the richest people in the world scam all of us by structuring their "income" so they pay no federal Income taxes. Musk and Bloomberg are others who did the same. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not taxable income until the they sell. And they never have a need to do that because they borrow off of these assets for the riches that they live on.

And us poor suckers foot the bill for them.

[jesmu84]

Of course.

Bezos is an example of how the richest people in the world scam all of us by structuring their "income" so they pay no federal Income taxes. Musk and Bloomberg are others who did the same. Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not taxable income until the they sell. And they never have a need to do that because they borrow off of these assets for the riches that they live on.

And us poor suckers foot the bill for them.

Definitely OT...

But yes. And, at the end of the day, since the government can't (or at least in its current state is unwilling) to recover the tax revenue necessary to run government programs, eventually they will collapse. And, who will be the ones suffering the most when that happens?

Generating your wealth on the back of American labor and/or American infrastructure and then not contributing back to the country in relative manner is one of the most unpatriotic things you could do.

[JWags85]

Definitely OT...

But yes. And, at the end of the day, since the government can't (or at least in its current state is unwilling) to recover the tax revenue necessary to run government programs, eventually they will collapse. And, who will be the ones suffering the most when that happens?

Generating your wealth on the back of American labor and/or American infrastructure and then not contributing back to the country in relative manner is one of the most unpatriotic things you could do.

Complain about tax breaks, complain about tax loopholes, fine.  But this is so dumb.  B**tch about politicians not addressing your perceived issues with the tax system, but calling people “unpatriotic” for applying legal tax reducing measures is so stupid.  I hope you avoid a couple tax deductions or credits and pay extra when you have a good year financially cause you’re a such a good American.  Otherwise it’s just hypocrisy cause you’ve decided when someone has made enough and should pay more.

[jesmu84]

Complain about tax breaks, complain about tax loopholes, fine.  But this is so dumb.  B**tch about politicians not addressing your perceived issues with the tax system, but calling people “unpatriotic” for applying legal tax reducing measures is so stupid.  I hope you avoid a couple tax deductions or credits and pay extra when you have a good year financially cause you’re a such a good American.  Otherwise it’s just hypocrisy cause you’ve decided when someone has made enough and should pay more.

As I've said before, the problem is the system.

When the Uber wealthy control the politicians and influence those "legal loopholes", that's a problem. And we know the politicians are too chicken-crap to stand up to them.

It's not dumb at all.

And I'm not talking about middle-class joe and Jane getting a child tax credit or whatever. I'm talking about the private jet tax credit. I'm talking about allowing a business lunch write-off while reducing teacher school supply write-off. Stuff like that.

I'm talking about the Uber wealthy who basically write the tax code to enrich themselves then don't give back relative to their wealth.

That ain't sustainable for the nation.

I'm not saying these folks are doing anything illegal. I am saying it's immoral. And that falls both to the groups that push for the tax code to be written this way and those who write it for them.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Jesmu doing economics and finance is can't miss scoop.  🤣🤣🤣

[MU82]

These businesses found a way around the worker shortage: Raising wages to $15 an hour or more

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/06/10/worker-shortage-raising-wages/

The owners of Klavon’s Ice Cream Parlor had hit a wall.

For months, the 98-year-old confectionary in Pittsburgh couldn’t find applicants for the open positions it needed to fill ahead of warmer weather and, hopefully, sunnier times for the business after a rough year.

The job posting for scoopers — $7.25 an hour plus tips — did not produce a single application between January and March.

So owner Jacob Hanchar decided to more than double the starting wage to $15 an hour, plus tips, “just to see what would happen.”

The shop was suddenly flooded with applications. More than 1,000 piled in over the course of a week.

“It was like a dam broke,” Hanchar said. Media coverage that followed his decision soon pushed other candidates his way.

Across the country, businesses in sectors such as food service and manufacturing that are trying to staff up have been reporting an obstacle to their success — a scarcity of workers interested in applying for low-wage positions.

The issue has raised concerns about the strength of the country’s recovery as coronavirus cases abate, with the economy still down more than 7.5 million jobs compared with before the pandemic.

Republicans have blamed enhanced unemployment benefits for the shortage; Democrats and most labor economists say the issue is the result of a complicated mix of factors, including many schools having yet to fully reopen, lingering concerns about workplace safety and other ways the workforce has shifted during the pandemic.

The experience of 12 business operators interviewed by The Washington Post who raised their minimum wage in the last year points to another element of the equation: the central role that pay — specifically a $15-an-hour minimum starting wage — plays in attracting workers right now.

Nine of the businesses had announced pay increases to at least $15 an hour since March, amid concerns about hiring in the face of the tight labor market. The other three increased wages last year.

The business operators spoke about the challenges associated with increased labor costs, with three saying they had to raise prices for consumers. One of those, as well as two that did not raise prices, said they had to reduce some seasonal staffing or staff hours to make up the cost.

Enrique Lopezlira, a labor economist at the University of California at Berkeley and an expert on the low-wage workforce, said the stories were a sign, albeit anecdotal, that the market was functioning as it should in the face of excessive demand for workers.

“The more employers improve the quality of the jobs and the more they think of workers as an asset that needs to be maximized, the better they’re going to be able to find and retain workers long term,” he said.

The article goes on to talk at length about these businesses. Here is the conclusion:

Most of the owners said the political debate in Washington about the labor shortage seemed to present a simplistic view of business challenges — none said that they believed unemployment insurance was solely to blame for hiring hurdles.

“There’s a shaming that’s happening to working-class people,” said Schaefer, the owner of the D.C.-area hardware stores. “Nobody talks about the fact that the economy is going to fall apart when a tech guy gets a $195,000-a-year salary with a 5 percent raise every year, or when lawyers are making $300,000. This conversation only happens when you’re talking about the people who make the lowest wages. And I think as a society, that’s just really insulting.”

That's a small-business owner talking, not a politician or an underpaid working stiff or me. I happen to think he's right, of course.

Anyway, the article offers an interesting, real-world look at a much-discussed situation.

[MU82]

Another good passage from that article for those who can't read it due to the paywall:

Many of the business operators interviewed said that the decision to raise their employees’ starting wage was not motivated primarily by altruism or a desire to do right: It just made good business sense.

They said wage increases would help attract stronger candidates, reduce turnover and elevate company morale and culture — important for customer-facing businesses such as restaurants.

“We’re going to see savings in retention and turnover, which is so expensive,” said Nicole Marquis, the founder and chief executive of HipCityVeg, a group of fast-casual vegan eateries with locations in Philadelphia and D.C. that recently announced a $15 starting wage. “And this is going to help with recruiting, which will help with our culture — and is really what drives profit at the end of the day and creates a long-lasting brand.”

[shoothoops]

Just because something has been done a certain way for a long time, doesn’t make it good or effective.

Profit is fine. Supply and demand is fine. Not sharing your profit more equitably with all of your employees is bad. It’s more about this than simply price increases for consumers. Because as prices and costs steadily increase, employee pay discrepancy also steadily increases. The problem can be addressed. Too many people and places aren’t interested in addressing it. Work from the bottom up instead of the top down. There will still be plenty more for the people higher up the pay ladder.

Taxes are a different topic. It’s been far too easy for too long for some to manipulate the complex tax system. Part of a tax system is in fact deciding when someone or some thing has enough and needs to pay more. Whether that is income tax, wealth tax etc…reliance on the good will and gestures of the masses has been a long term ineffective strategy.

[jesmu84]

Jesmu doing economics and finance is can't miss scoop.  🤣🤣🤣

If I'm triggering boomer responses, I know I'm on the right track 

[rocky_warrior]

The job posting for scoopers

Wow, first specialized discount on coasters & mugs, now jobs just for us.  I guess I should double the subscription price again.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Wow, first specialized discount on coasters & mugs, now jobs just for us.  I guess I should double the subscription prescription price again.

[Skatastrophy]

Wow, first specialized discount on coasters & mugs, now jobs just for us.  I guess I should double the subscription price again.

[MU82]

Wow, first specialized discount on coasters & mugs, now jobs just for us.  I guess I should double the subscription price again.

I can't speak for anybody else, but I think you deserve at least twice what we all currently pay you!

[jesmu84]

Re: chipotle discussion

https://newrepublic.com/article/162708/chipotle-burrito-cost-consumer-prices-wages

[shoothoops]

Re: chipotle discussion

https://newrepublic.com/article/162708/chipotle-burrito-cost-consumer-prices-wages

You’ll get nothing but crickets.

In Tennessee, 257,000 jobs posted. Only 3% pay $20k or above. (poverty line is $22k family of 3)


https://fox17.com/news/local/only-3-of-jobs-posted-on-tennessees-website-offer-more-than-20000-per-year-unemployment-pandemic-recovery-nashville-governor-bill-lee

[JWags85]

You’ll get nothing but crickets.

In Tennessee, 257,000 jobs posted. Only 3% pay $20k or above. (poverty line is $22k family of 3)


https://fox17.com/news/local/only-3-of-jobs-posted-on-tennessees-website-offer-more-than-20000-per-year-unemployment-pandemic-recovery-nashville-governor-bill-lee

Because the conversation got to a place where people who disagree wouldn't agree?  And that article is light on any sort of math or calculations but has no problem saying "they can do X and still be 'immensely profitable'".  Its written by a writer who specializes in tech and national security.  Its slanted, which is fine.  It expresses a viewpoint that many agree with, which is also fine.  But its not anything earth shattering or foundational that should swing the discussion here.

Are you ever not an incessantly smug know it all?  Please spare me an 8 paragraph response telling me all the varied things you love and are interested in to validate it as well.

And the New Republic is about as far left as one could swing.  I would expect the other side to feel the same if someone posted an article about it from The National Review.  But thanks for posting an article that has nothing to do with the Chipotle discussion to punctuate your smugness.

[lawdog77]

You’ll get nothing but crickets.

In Tennessee, 257,000 jobs posted. Only 3% pay $20k or above. (poverty line is $22k family of 3)


https://fox17.com/news/local/only-3-of-jobs-posted-on-tennessees-website-offer-more-than-20000-per-year-unemployment-pandemic-recovery-nashville-governor-bill-lee

I don't think this was fact checked. My 5 minute search for jobs on that site listed way more than the 8500 jobs over $20K that they claim. Also, many of the jobs do not list a salary, but I would presume would be over 20K (nursing, sales, etc)

[jesmu84]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/08/technology/farewell-millennial-lifestyle-subsidy.html

My apologies. This was the original article the new republic cited.

[JWags85]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/08/technology/farewell-millennial-lifestyle-subsidy.html

My apologies. This was the original article the new republic cited.

All good.  Nothing to apologize for. 

That article brings up some interesting points about a lot of those tech companies.  You get immense valuations on user bases and intellectual property, but you can't run at a deficit forever.  There will have to be reckoning there.  If something seems impossibly cheap, there is probably a reason for it

[Jockey]

Because the conversation got to a place where people who disagree wouldn't agree?  And that article is light on any sort of math or calculations but has no problem saying "they can do X and still be 'immensely profitable'".  Its written by a writer who specializes in tech and national security.  Its slanted, which is fine.  It expresses a viewpoint that many agree with, which is also fine.  But its not anything earth shattering or foundational that should swing the discussion here.

Are you ever not an incessantly smug know it all?  Please spare me an 8 paragraph response telling me all the varied things you love and are interested in to validate it as well.

And the New Republic is about as far left as one could swing.  I would expect the other side to feel the same if someone posted an article about it from The National Review.  But thanks for posting an article that has nothing to do with the Chipotle discussion to punctuate your smugness.

You seem a bit sensitive today. Lotsa insults.

[JWags85]

You seem a bit sensitive today. Lotsa insults.

I'm perfectly fine.  The comment above was a lame "checkmate" volley because I, and others, didn't feel like continuing a conversation that ran its course when both sides made complete points.  But it also fit his way of doing things here.  Look at the s***show novel with Mike in the tennis thread.

As for our interaction, I know you like to troll and get a rise out of people.  And I called it out, cause it literally added nothing to the discussion or the point I made, but I wasn't aware calling you "contrarian" is now an insult?

[Jockey]

I'm perfectly fine.  The comment above was a lame "checkmate" volley because I, and others, didn't feel like continuing a conversation that ran its course when both sides made complete points.  But it also fit his way of doing things here.  Look at the s***show novel with Mike in the tennis thread.

As for our interaction, I know you like to troll and get a rise out of people.  And I called it out, cause it literally added nothing to the discussion or the point I made, but I wasn't aware calling you "contrarian" is now an insult?

I appreciate the response, Wags.

[JWags85]

I appreciate the response, Wags.

All good my man.  The game is the game