COVID Economy

[jficke13]

This isn't going to help further the discussion, but it involves Christmas Vacation so I'm giving myself a pass on account of that movie being funny.

"In seven years he couldn't find a job?"

"Catherine says he's been holding out for a management position."


https://twitter.com/VacationQuotes/status/1075775443121463296?s=20

[MUBurrow]

But if you want to talk 'market' then get rid of the crutch that is only benefiting the worker to even the playing field, aina?  You don't want to work?  Sure that's fine, but then you don't get EUI to hold you over until you find a job that pays what you think you're worth. 

So this is the rub. The social safety net applies upward pressure on the wage market from below. And that's good! At its most extreme, I think most people agree that not working shouldn't be a death sentence, regardless of why a person isn't working.  But reasonable debate can be had on the degree to which unemployment benefits are a good market manipulator at low compensation levels. 

For me, if unemployment benefits increase the cost of labor such that businesses who are relying on a large number of below living wage earners can't compete, I won't shed any tears.  If we're going to provide benefits, I'd rather have it be in the purest form and not to subsidize for-profit companies for the sake of artificially lowering unemployment numbers and masking the problem.  But when we're talking about jobs in the low $20s per hour going unfilled? That's another story.

[Coleman]

🤞🤞I'll be the first to admit this isn't my lane.  Just been doing some reading and have been told on hear that 2% inflation is gov't goal.  More then double that would still be acceptable, honest question? 

What % is too much?

IMO, Anything over 5% is too much.

And sustained inflation over 2% is too much. But a couple years at 3% or 4% will not be that big of a deal.

[Coleman]

So this is the rub. The social safety net applies upward pressure on the wage market from below. And that's good! At its most extreme, I think most people agree that not working shouldn't be a death sentence, regardless of why a person isn't working.  But reasonable debate can be had on the degree to which unemployment benefits are a good market manipulator at low compensation levels. 

For me, if unemployment benefits increase the cost of labor such that businesses who are relying on a large number of below living wage earners can't compete, I won't shed any tears.  If we're going to provide benefits, I'd rather have it be in the purest form and not to subsidize for-profit companies for the sake of artificially lowering unemployment numbers and masking the problem.  But when we're talking about jobs in the low $20s per hour going unfilled? That's another story.

I agree with this analysis.

[warriorchick]

I agree with this analysis.

In other words, the safety net should not be a hammock. 

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I already said that.  But if you want to talk 'market' then get rid of the crutch that is only benefiting the worker to even the playing field, aina?  You don't want to work?  Sure that's fine, but then you don't get EUI to hold you over until you find a job that pays what you think you're worth.  Do you get to 'search' forever?  Now that the economy has demand for workers and obviously has a supply there... why should we continue to provide enhanced unemployment insurance?

Put it this way, there should be no one complaining that jobs aren't available.  We also need to realize that a lot of the jobs that went away during the pandemic aren't coming back.  They're gone.  Adios. 

Now, if we're going to do UBI, let's just do that.  I'm fully on board.  But at this point there is a pinch where the ultra wealthy and newly unemployed are getting a hell of a deal while the rest of us foot the bill.  What we currently have is an unsustainable system. 

And this is the most conservative you will probably ever see me get on this website.

Feels good, donit?   

[Hards Alumni]

Feels good, donit?   

Difference is you don't seem to give a rip about the rich folk dicking you down, baby.

[rocket surgeon]

Difference is you don't seem to give a rip about the rich folk dicking you down, baby.

  what is "dicking you down" mean?  if you mean rich getting richer, that is the class warfare argument played whenever your side ain't in control.  during the years 2009-2016, the uber class did very very well.  anyone below upper/upper middle class couldn't afford to invest.  the media's dirty little secret.  kinda like today's jobs report.  main stream media either spins the bejesus out of it or doesn't want to talk about it or it's you know who's fault...btw, middle class income was up $4-5k 2016-2020

[The Sultan]

  what is "dicking you down" mean?  if you mean rich getting richer, that is the class warfare argument played whenever your side ain't in control.  during the years 2009-2016, the uber class did very very well.  anyone below upper/upper middle class couldn't afford to invest.  the media's dirty little secret.  kinda like today's jobs report.  main stream media either spins the bejesus out of it or doesn't want to talk about it or it's you know who's fault...btw, middle class income was up $4-5k 2016-2020

Rich getting richer isn't really a good thing for society. But I guess I do t expect the guy who bought daddy's dental practice to really understand that.

By the way, do you blame the media for everything?  Amazing how you consistently use that as an excuse for poor behavior.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Rich getting richer isn't really a good thing for society. But I guess I do t expect the guy who bought daddy's dental practice to really understand that.

By the way, do you blame the media for everything?  Amazing how you consistently use that as an excuse for poor behavior.

Big tough ivory tower guy.

[The Sultan]

Big tough ivory tower guy.

Do these people pay you to defend them or are you just hoping they invite you to their next little party? Because it's kinda pathetic you keep doing so.

[rocket surgeon]

Rich getting richer isn't really a good thing for society. But I guess I do t expect the guy who bought daddy's dental practice to really understand that.

By the way, do you blame the media for everything?  Amazing how you consistently use that as an excuse for poor behavior.

the key word there sully is BOUGHT.  yeah, that was 30 years ago and guess what?  still writing out checks to 10 other people and paying A LOT of taxes
btw, have you ever bought or run a business?  didn't think so.  still getting paid for staying home yet, ey?

never said media is to "blame" for anything but show me where i'm wrong here instead of arguing with my points because we are polar opposites.

[rocket surgeon]

Big tough ivory tower guy.

  thanks zig..i love you man

[The Sultan]

the key word there sully is BOUGHT.  yeah, that was 30 years ago and guess what?  still writing out checks to 10 other people and paying A LOT of taxes
btw, have you ever bought or run a business?  didn't think so.  still getting paid for staying home yet, ey?

never said media is to "blame" for anything but show me where i'm wrong here instead of arguing with my points because we are polar opposites.

Thirty years later and you STILL haven't paid it off?  Wow. Daddy must have soaked you huh?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Do these people pay you to defend them or are you just hoping they invite you to their next little party? Because it's kinda pathetic you keep doing so.

Oh, I'm a regular participant in the underboard mocking of you, Johnny boy.

[The Sultan]

Oh, I'm a regular participant in the underboard mocking of you, Johnny boy.

Sweet! Glad you're/their obsessed. That indeed is a badge of honor!

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Sweet! Glad you're/their obsessed. That indeed is a badge of honor!

Why are you the way you are?

- Michael Scott

[TSmith34, Inc.]

the key word there sully is BOUGHT.

So you bought it with the money daddy paid you to work there. Nice.

[pbiflyer]

If someone can be pulled away from a job for a TEMPORARY $600/week max (and that's with both the state and federal parts maxed), then the job mustn't have been that good. There are also quite a few workers who don't qualify at all for state benefits because they weren't in a job paying unemployment insurance tax, but they still have to go through the state as a gatekeeper to the federal PUA, which they must apply for. If you're a freelancer whose business is off 80% or so but you're still operating, that other 20% comes off the PUA (if you're honest in applying; if not you risk being prosecuted). A PUA determination for such a person will not just automatically come in at $300.

Those on career-track jobs with benefits where the industry just happened to get hit hard won't be too hard to get back, but the dead-end jobs where employers try to limit hours and pay $10 or less an hour and then scream about no one wanting to work will need re-examination. Governors McMaster and Gianforte both are in states notorious for low pay and throwing workers under the bus.

[rocket surgeon]

Thirty years later and you STILL haven't paid it off?  Wow. Daddy must have soaked you huh?

is this how you talk to your students?  you don't listen very well.  where did "paid it off" come into the equation? and what does it have to do with anything?  i axked you if you ever wrote out a check for someone to live on?  someone to buy a house, a car, put food in their fridge...?  my tax dollars probably pay some of your salary, unfortunately.  we see right here what that has produced...an angry old man

   i paid for a dental practice, my 8 years of tuition at MU, tuition for my 2 sons at MU...and A LOT of taxes...more than my fair share.  paid off the practice after he retired with the knowledge i gained from working with him

[jesmu84]

If someone can be pulled away from a job for a TEMPORARY $600/week max (and that's with both the state and federal parts maxed), then the job mustn't have been that good. There are also quite a few workers who don't qualify at all for state benefits because they weren't in a job paying unemployment insurance tax, but they still have to go through the state as a gatekeeper to the federal PUA, which they must apply for. If you're a freelancer whose business is off 80% or so but you're still operating, that other 20% comes off the PUA (if you're honest in applying; if not you risk being prosecuted). A PUA determination for such a person will not just automatically come in at $300.

Those on career-track jobs with benefits where the industry just happened to get hit hard won't be too hard to get back, but the dead-end jobs where employers try to limit hours and pay $10 or less an hour and then scream about no one wanting to work will need re-examination. Governors McMaster and Gianforte both are in states notorious for low pay and throwing workers under the bus.

Well said

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

If someone can be pulled away from a job for a TEMPORARY $600/week max (and that's with both the state and federal parts maxed), then the job mustn't have been that good. There are also quite a few workers who don't qualify at all for state benefits because they weren't in a job paying unemployment insurance tax, but they still have to go through the state as a gatekeeper to the federal PUA, which they must apply for. If you're a freelancer whose business is off 80% or so but you're still operating, that other 20% comes off the PUA (if you're honest in applying; if not you risk being prosecuted). A PUA determination for such a person will not just automatically come in at $300.

Those on career-track jobs with benefits where the industry just happened to get hit hard won't be too hard to get back, but the dead-end jobs where employers try to limit hours and pay $10 or less an hour and then scream about no one wanting to work will need re-examination. Governors McMaster and Gianforte both are in states notorious for low pay and throwing workers under the bus.

Just before the pandemic, we had issues getting machine operators because we learned many potential new hires were passing on us to work in a new Amazon warehouse instead.  We raised the starting hourly rate, gave all employees who started in the last 3 years the same increase and all new operators were given a bump up in pay after 3 months if they showed they can operate the machines competently.  It helped bring in several new competent operators.

[The Sultan]

is this how you talk to your students?  you don't listen very well.  where did "paid it off" come into the equation? and what does it have to do with anything?  i axked you if you ever wrote out a check for someone to live on?  someone to buy a house, a car, put food in their fridge...?  my tax dollars probably pay some of your salary, unfortunately.  we see right here what that has produced...an angry old man

   i paid for a dental practice, my 8 years of tuition at MU, tuition for my 2 sons at MU...and A LOT of taxes...more than my fair share.  paid off the practice after he retired with the knowledge i gained from working with him

Did your daddy teach you to be a defensive little whiner, or do you learn that on your own?

[Hards Alumni]

is this how you talk to your students?  you don't listen very well.  where did "paid it off" come into the equation? and what does it have to do with anything?  i axked you if you ever wrote out a check for someone to live on?  someone to buy a house, a car, put food in their fridge...?  my tax dollars probably pay some of your salary, unfortunately.  we see right here what that has produced...an angry old man

   i paid for a dental practice, my 8 years of tuition at MU, tuition for my 2 sons at MU...and A LOT of taxes...more than my fair share.  paid off the practice after he retired with the knowledge i gained from working with him

I've done all these things and still managed to not be a short sighed idiot.  Congrats on your silver spoon, too!

Fluffy, the real issue is that these guys *think* they're truly wealthy.  When they are just comfortably Wisconsin wealthy.  They piss and moan about taxes despite the tax system having been in their favor since before the 1980s.  They're small thinkers that can't see the forest for the trees.

[Jockey]

"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."