Sweden?

[WarriorDad]

Lockdowns should not be fully lifted until a vaccine is available.  Do not think we will get any type of agreement on what that means in defining what is locked down and what is not, but clear that some are advocating some type of lockdown until a vaccine is found.  What if a vaccine is never found?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/09/world/lockdown-lift-vaccine-coronavirus-lancet-intl/index.html

[Uncle Rico]

Lockdowns should not be fully lifted until a vaccine is available.  Do not think we will get any type of agreement on what that means in defining what is locked down and what is not, but clear that some are advocating some type of lockdown until a vaccine is found.  What if a vaccine is never found?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/09/world/lockdown-lift-vaccine-coronavirus-lancet-intl/index.html

If a vaccine is never found, it probably won't matter

[Lennys Tap]

If a vaccine is never found, it probably won't matter

#End of Days, a'ina?

[WarriorDad]

Switzerland / Sweden what's the difference.  Barstool Sports founder on a rant tonight.


https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1260721488241418240?s=20

[Hards Alumni]

Switzerland / Sweden what's the difference.  Barstool Sports founder on a rant tonight.


https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1260721488241418240?s=20

Yeah he's a clown.

Sweden up to 8th most deaths per million population.  And if we take out the statistical outliers of San Marino, and Andorra (due to their low populations) then Sweden checks in at 6th.  All of this with zero evidence that they're approaching herd immunity.  They can't even keep up with Azerbaijan in terms of tests per 1m population.  Sweden currently 68th, but again if we take out the outliers, they're probably more like 50th.

Wonder when they'll end their experiment.

[tower912]

Too late to 'end' it.   They are committed.   Now just trying to manage it until the treatment regimen ('cure' some people say) and vaccine arrive.

[Pakuni]

Yeah he's a clown.

Sweden up to 8th most deaths per million population.  And if we take out the statistical outliers of San Marino, and Andorra (due to their low populations) then Sweden checks in at 6th.  All of this with zero evidence that they're approaching herd immunity.  They can't even keep up with Azerbaijan in terms of tests per 1m population.  Sweden currently 68th, but again if we take out the outliers, they're probably more like 50th.

Wonder when they'll end their experiment.

Yeah, but unlike the rest of us idiots around the world, the Swedes have protected their economy. It's going fantasti .... oh, never mind.

Even without a full lockdown, Sweden's economy has not been unscathed. Preliminary evidence shows Sweden has suffered similar economic effects as its neighbors: The Swedish Central Bank projects the country's G.D.P. will contract by 7 to 10 percent this year, an estimate on par with the rest of Europe. (The European Commission projects the E.U. economy will contract by 7.5 percent.)

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/15/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-deaths.html

[HouWarrior]

This is very good review of Sweeden/Covid issues....incl my take is that it has different factors at play than others...we cant compare country to country experiences without also taking in to account their differences:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/15/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-deaths.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

[Pakuni]

This is very good review of Sweeden/Covid issues....incl my take is that it has different factors at play than others...we cant compare country to country experiences without also taking in to account their differences:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/15/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-deaths.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

This is absolutely true. Sweden has so many factors that weigh in its favor - healthier population, better access to care, a populace more willing to follow government guidance, more single-person households, less dense urban areas, a culture that already embraces social distance, etc. And yet, its choices are leading to an inordinate number of deaths relative to similar populations.

[Big Papi]

This is absolutely true. Sweden has so many factors that weigh in its favor - healthier population, better access to care, a populace more willing to follow government guidance, more single-person households, less dense urban areas, a culture that already embraces social distance, etc. And yet, its choices are leading to an inordinate number of deaths relative to similar populations

I don't know if you can say for certain that they are right or wrong with their choice at this point in time.  Its very evident that we as a society are unable to truly social distance ourselves for any great length of time.  I am not staying home quarantined for 12-18 months until we get a vaccine and neither are most others.  All we have done is delayed our cases and deaths while damaging our economy.  Lets see 4 months down the road if Sweden's death rates are way higher than ours and whose strategy worked best. 

[MU82]

All we have done is delayed our cases and deaths while damaging our economy.

Well, it wasn't "all" we have done. We also kept our hospitals from being absolutely overwhelmed by COVID-19 cases. That seems pretty important.

But yes, it's still too early to know enough about a lot of this.

[Pakuni]

I don't know if you can say for certain that they are right or wrong with their choice at this point in time.  Its very evident that we as a society are unable to truly social distance ourselves for any great length of time.  I am not staying home quarantined for 12-18 months until we get a vaccine and neither are most others.  All we have done is delayed our cases and deaths while damaging our economy.  Lets see 4 months down the road if Sweden's death rates are way higher than ours and whose strategy worked best.

A couple key facts you're missing.
- Sweden's death rate should be MUCH better than ours for all the reasons previously stated, but most importantly their population being much healthier and with better access to care. If it all evens out in the end, then Sweden failed.

- Sweden's economy also is damaged. Their central bank projects a 7 to 10 percent contraction this year. The CBO is projecting a 5.6 percent contraction for the U.S. GDP in 2020.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56335

[Big Papi]

A couple key facts you're missing.
- Sweden's death rate should be MUCH better than ours for all the reasons previously stated, but most importantly their population being much healthier and with better access to care. If it all evens out in the end, then Sweden failed.

- Sweden's economy also is damaged. Their central bank projects a 7 to 10 percent contraction this year. The CBO is projecting a 5.6 percent contraction for the U.S. GDP in 2020.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56335

I'm not missing any facts.  Sweden has failed where we have failed.  Neither did a good job of protecting the vulnerable in nursing facilities.

I'm not saying their economy is not damaged.  Much like you can't make a judgement on a draft until a few years down the road, or how good Wojo is until you give him 5 years, you can't make a definitive judgement on who handled this better until later.  Our deaths could just as easily dwarf Sweden by the end of the year.  You know, the panic mongers who claim that we are opening up way too early.....maybe those original death totals were right on or even low.

[Pakuni]

I'm not missing any facts.  Sweden has failed where we have failed.  Neither did a good job of protecting the vulnerable in nursing facilities.

I'm not saying their economy is not damaged.  Much like you can't make a judgement on a draft until a few years down the road, or how good Wojo is until you give him 5 years, you can't make a definitive judgement on who handled this better until later.  Our deaths could just as easily dwarf Sweden by the end of the year.  You know, the panic mongers who claim that we are opening up way too early.....maybe those original death totals were right on or even low.

So, you're saying if we act like Sweden we may get results like Sweden?
Good to know!

[tower912]

We're getting there.   Half assed measures at the federal level.   Higher death rates than our peer countries.   Worse recession than our peer countries.   

[The Sultan]

We're getting there.   Half assed measures at the federal level.   Higher death rates than our peer countries.   Worse recession than our peer countries.   

WE'RE NUMBER ONE!  WE'RE NUMBER ONE!  WE'RE NUMBER ONE!

[tower912]

Winning!

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Winning!

Trump was right: I've gotten tired of so much winning.

[Pakuni]

Sweden leads Europe in per capita deaths over the last week.
Deaths per million now about four times that of Denmark, seven times that of Finland and eight times that of Norway.
Economic impact expected to be about the same as the EU overall.
Barring a significant second wave combined with the failure to develop a vaccine or effective treatment in the next 6-8 months, the strategy appears to be a mistake.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-sweden-casualties/sweden-tops-europe-covid-19-deaths-per-capita-over-last-seven-days-idUSKBN22V26A?il=0

[WarriorDad]

A couple key facts you're missing.
- Sweden's death rate should be MUCH better than ours for all the reasons previously stated, but most importantly their population being much healthier and with better access to care. If it all evens out in the end, then Sweden failed.

- Sweden's economy also is damaged. Their central bank projects a 7 to 10 percent contraction this year. The CBO is projecting a 5.6 percent contraction for the U.S. GDP in 2020.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56335

Why is UK, France, Spain death rates much worse than ours despite having a MUCH healthier population than the USA? 

Sweden's economy is contracting, so is New Zealand's which was hailed as the all glorious approach to fighting COVID.  What would Sweden's economic outlook have been if they reacted like everyone else?

Feels like it has to be said for the 100th time.  Still in the 2nd inning on this.  I am grateful to the Swedish people for taking this risk because someone had to do it.  They may be wrong, they may be proven right.  Way too early to tell.  Only a few weeks ago Andrew Cuomo was hailed here as the guy with the plan and DeSantis as a moron.  And that could change again for both of those two.  Things change by the hour with this disease and so many canont wait to do an I TOLD YOU SO that covers their beliefs.

[Pakuni]

Why is UK, France, Spain death rates much worse than ours despite having a MUCH healthier population than the USA? 

1. More dense population areas
2. Slow to impose restrictions
3. Lack of needed medical supplies

[forgetful]

Why is UK, France, Spain death rates much worse than ours despite having a MUCH healthier population than the USA? 

Sweden's economy is contracting, so is New Zealand's which was hailed as the all glorious approach to fighting COVID.  What would Sweden's economic outlook have been if they reacted like everyone else?

Feels like it has to be said for the 100th time.  Still in the 2nd inning on this.  I am grateful to the Swedish people for taking this risk because someone had to do it.  They may be wrong, they may be proven right.  Way too early to tell.  Only a few weeks ago Andrew Cuomo was hailed here as the guy with the plan and DeSantis as a moron.  And that could change again for both of those two.  Things change by the hour with this disease and so many canont wait to do an I TOLD YOU SO that covers their beliefs.

1. What Pakuni said.

Regarding Cuomo and DeSantis, one is following the science and known facts. The other is pissing into the wind and hoping it doesn't blow back on him.

Even if DeSantis doesn't end up with piss all over himself, he's still a moron.

[tower912]

Impress me.   Make the case for Brazil.

[Hards Alumni]

Impress me.   Make the case for Brazil.

I am grateful to the Swedish Brazillian people for taking this risk because someone had to do it.  They may be wrong, they may be proven right.  Way too early to tell. 

[tower912]

In the end, Sweden is doing the same thing as Brazil, only in a much less dramatic and more organized fashion.