Sweden?

[Skatastrophy]

This is probably a better combo for the US

https://www.wsj.com/articles/local-practical-apolitical-inside-germanys-successful-coronavirus-strategy-11588325403

Germany did a great job. Such a great job that their citizens are complaining that their response was overblown.

I wish I could be saying that in the United States.

[Hards Alumni]

I am actually working on a project that shares and tracks information in Germany. Some states, like Hesse are pretty sophisticated, even tracking the "
smart" hospital beds. They are far ahead of the curve in tracking resources.
Most of my role is adapting that to apply those things to US states. Responses from most of the states are "There is no way we could ever track that level of information" or "We don't need to track that much information".
Looking at the death rate comparison, perhaps we should try.

As long as information can be organized and analyzed, I don't think there is such a thing as too much information.

[pbiflyer]

As long as information can be organized and analyzed, I don't think there is such a thing as too much information.

On that we agree. Sadly, many state officials don't.

[jesmu84]

Germany did a great job. Such a great job that their citizens are complaining that their response was overblown.

I wish I could be saying that in the United States.

Have you seen the protestors?

[WarriorDad]

Over 80% of Swedish residents in recent polling support their government's approach on COVID 19.

https://qz.com/1842183/sweden-is-taking-a-very-different-approach-to-covid-19/

[Jockey]

Over 80% of Swedish residents in recent polling support their government's approach on COVID 19.

https://qz.com/1842183/sweden-is-taking-a-very-different-approach-to-covid-19/

Still beating the dead horse?

Chico was best at doing this. You are a close second. So for the next new persona that you become, doing this is the single biggest giveaway to your identity. You might even get away with fooling people for a while.

But if it looks like a Chico, acts like a Chico, and quacks like a Chico, it is a Chico.

[WarriorDad]

Heart attacks are not being included. Unless, they have tested positive for COVID-19. In the latter case, COVID-19 aggressively attacks heart tissue too, and can affect clotting. Both of which can cause or contribute to a heart attack. They should be included.

Car accidents are not being included. Unless, they had COVID-19, and the accident report can show that COVID-19 contributed to the accident. That is very common, since COVID-19 causes severe hypoxia, which leads to you having the mental acuity and coordination of essentially being the most drunk you have ever been. Again, this should absolutely be included as a COVID death.

There are very few if any, non-COVID related deaths being counted as COVID, there are far more being excluded due to some municipalities requiring a positive test, even in cases where clinically it is obvious that the death was due to COVID.

The fact that more deaths are being excluded is validated by the fact that we have about 50% more deaths than normal, even after correcting for COVID-19. That is despite fewer people being on roads so fewer auto deaths.

In some cases under reported, in other cases over reported.  Pennsylvania had to lower their numbers recently because of over reporting.  Some funeral directors in New York believe (their opinion) a number of over-reporting of COVID causes that came out yesterday.  If federal funding is tied to cause of death, that could be a reason why.

As an example  "If you don't have a private doctor and you weren't under any medical care, they're automatically putting down on the death certificate COVID-19, because they don't wanna go--they're so overwhelmed," Antioco said. "They're putting everything as COVID-19, so they're padding the numbers."  "They're not going out to houses anymore," he said. "They would go out to the house, they would investigate the scene, they would do some testing at the scene and then come up with a conclusion as to: 'He had heart disease.'"

Antioco said when medical examiners are too busy and not looking to travel, COVID-19 has become the go-to cause of death. "How many of them are actually COVID-19? Or is the M.E.(Medical Examiner) just putting that because they don't want to go to the scene?"   Joseph Antioco, the director of Brooklyn's Schaeffer Funeral Home


We will never know the true numbers from this pandemic.  Too many people cremated without testing.

[WarriorDad]

Still beating the dead horse?

Chico was best at doing this. You are a close second. So for the next new persona that you become, doing this is the single biggest giveaway to your identity. You might even get away with fooling people for a while.

But if it looks like a Chico, acts like a Chico, and quacks like a Chico, it is a Chico.

I don't see where anyone in this message thread mentioned what the people of Sweden thought.  We know how others feel, how do the actual citizens feel.  Over 80% is a number rarely seen in anything when it comes to government policy.  That is new information to share and not beating a dead horse.  Can you imagine 80% number in this country about anything this big in the last 20 years?  It happens, but rarely.

[Pakuni]

I don't see where anyone in this message thread mentioned what the people of Sweden thought.  We know how others feel, how do the actual citizens feel.  Over 80% is a number rarely seen in anything when it comes to government policy.  That is new information to share and not beating a dead horse.  Can you imagine 80% number in this country about anything this big in the last 20 years?  It happens, but rarely.

The Swedish government could invade Russia and 80 percent of the population would support it. Trust and support for big government is a quintessential characteristic of the Swedes.
The American right's sudden embrace of a socialist European government has been something to behold.
Pandemics make for strange bedfellows.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Can you imagine 80% number in this country about anything this big in the last 20 years?  It happens, but rarely.

You don't need to imagine.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/116500/presidential-approval-ratings-george-bush.aspx

[WarriorDad]

The Swedish government could invade Russia and 80 percent of the population would support it. Trust and support for big government is a quintessential characteristic of the Swedes.
The American right's sudden embrace of a socialist European government has been something to behold.
Pandemics make for strange bedfellows.

Wouldn't the American right or libertarians be gravitating more for the civil liberties angle the Swedes are practicing?  Let grown-ups be grown-up, practice good health, give citizens the information, but let them act? 

Is 80% support in government by the Swedes a normal occurrence as you suggest?  It seems high, especially for something this important that directly pertains to one's health.  Afterall, they are all potentially impacted individually in a life-or-death way moreso than most government policies.

[WarriorDad]

You don't need to imagine.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/116500/presidential-approval-ratings-george-bush.aspx

I think his dad was that high after the gulf war, but it is rare as I mentioned.  Handful of times.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I think his dad was that high after the gulf war, but it is rare as I mentioned.  Handful of times.

Or maybe it speaks to opportunity... [lost]

[ZiggysFryBoy]

The Swedish government could invade Russia and 80 percent of the population would support it. Trust and support for big government is a quintessential characteristic of the Swedes.
The American right's sudden embrace of a socialist European government has been something to behold.
Pandemics make for strange bedfellows.

And the american left's disdain for the democratic socalism of sweden is also something to behold.

[Pakuni]

And the american left's disdain for the democratic socalism of sweden is also something to behold.

The american left:

@realDonaldTrump: Despite reports to the contrary, Sweden is paying heavily for its decision not to lockdown. As of today, 2462 people have died there, a much higher number than the neighboring countries of Norway (207), Finland (206) or Denmark (443). The United States made the correct decision!

[Lennys Tap]

The Swedish government could invade Russia and 80 percent of the population would support it. Trust and support for big government is a quintessential characteristic of the Swedes.
The American right's sudden embrace of a socialist European government has been something to behold.
Pandemics make for strange bedfellows.

One thing that's clear is the Swedish government respects its citizens and trusts them to follow guidelines and act responsibly. Therefore basic freedoms aren't rescinded even in a time of emergency. Seems libertarian in principle.

Our response/approach has been much more authoritarian.

Don't get me wrong. I can envision circumstances where a quasi martial law would be necessary. Maybe this was one. But I'm not 100% convinced.

[Warriors4ever]

Unfortunately the crowds at the beaches and over St. Patrick's Day weekend, as well as some of the current protests,  have pretty much shown that we won't follow guidelines and behave responsibly.

[Jockey]

One thing that's clear is the Swedish government respects its citizens and trusts them to follow guidelines and act responsibly. Therefore basic freedoms aren't rescinded even in a time of emergency. Seems libertarian in principle.

Our response/approach has been much more authoritarian.

Don't get me wrong. I can envision circumstances where a quasi martial law would be necessary. Maybe this was one. But I'm not 100% convinced.

Luckily, you live in Florida. You still have the freedom to go out and mingle with your friends at the beach. And don't bother with those silly face masks. Just the libs trying to cause panic.

[The Sultan]

One thing that's clear is the Swedish government respects its citizens and trusts them to follow guidelines and act responsibly. Therefore basic freedoms aren't rescinded even in a time of emergency. Seems libertarian in principle.

Our response/approach has been much more authoritarian.

"Much more authoritarian?"

Don't get me wrong, it has been more authoritarian, but the difference between us and Sweden isn' THAT extreme.

[Lennys Tap]

"Much more authoritarian?"

Don't get me wrong, it has been more authoritarian, but the difference between us and Sweden isn' THAT extreme.

I have no quibble about removing the word "much" from my statement.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Unfortunately the crowds at the beaches and over St. Patrick's Day weekend, as well as some of the current protests,  have pretty much shown that we won't follow guidelines and behave responsibly.

^This.

Compare and contrast the U.S. with New Zealand in how our populace acts. Yes, New Zealand is very different in terms of size, density, and ability to lock down boarders, I am not talking about those comparisons, I am talking about how people act.

Kiwis were told in scientific terms what was needed to shut down the virus--strict quarantine, no movement between areas, etc., and they complied. Is that Authoritarian? Compare that to the U.S. where people flood beaches and the government supports re-open demonstrations that go against its own stated policies. Not sure if that is Libertarian or tacit Anarchy. Either way, because enough of our people have refused to follow the guidelines, we're in for a long, continued wave.

[forgetful]

One thing that's clear is the Swedish government respects its citizens and trusts them to follow guidelines and act responsibly. Therefore basic freedoms aren't rescinded even in a time of emergency. Seems libertarian in principle.

Is that why Sweden was backfilling their parks with manure to keep people out and to avoid increasing the spread of COVID? Because they respected and trusted their citizens to act responsibly.

[pbiflyer]

Luckily, you live in Florida. You still have the freedom to go out and mingle with your friends at the beach. And don't bother with those silly face masks. Just the libs trying to cause panic.

Florida beaches have been and still are closed except for Duval county.

[Warriors4ever]

On TripAdvisor's Florida forum local posters are saying that most beaches are now open.

[pbiflyer]

On TripAdvisor's Florida forum local posters are saying that most beaches are now open.

Forgot Brevard county. You can't stop or lay down.
Some sparse panhandle ones have opened.
Pinellas county, St Pete area will reopen Monday with restrictions. Most populated areas still closed.
List here: https://floridapolitics.com/archives/325997-which-florida-beaches-are-closed-which-are-still-open