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Author Topic: US postal service  (Read 32797 times)

jesmu84

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US postal service
« on: April 12, 2020, 01:34:52 PM »
Interesting discussions being had about the future of the USPS.

Thread here with info I never knew:

https://twitter.com/lildipcrap3/status/1248741868440940544?s=19

#UnleashSean

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Re: US postal service
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2020, 01:43:54 PM »
Why do people use Twitter for long messages. I'll never understand that.

#UnleashSean

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Re: US postal service
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2020, 01:45:40 PM »
But on a real note. A large portion of what the postal service does is obsolete. Bills, Letters, notices, pretty much anything but physical packages are all better served via email.

shoothoops

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Re: US postal service
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2020, 01:46:17 PM »
These are a couple of articles that help explain what happened to the USPS.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2018-04-04/congress-not-amazon-messed-up-the-u-s-postal-service?__twitter_impression=true


https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a18228/post-office-business-trouble-0213/

https://ips-dc.org/how-congress-manufactured-a-postal-crisis-and-how-to-fix-it/


It's not a federal agency. It doesn't cost taxpayers any money. It's a public service, not set up for profit. And it was running quite well up for some time. It is an essential service that is necessary for people to be able to vote by mail this year.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2020, 02:08:10 PM by shoothoops »

Jockey

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Re: US postal service
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2020, 02:40:23 PM »
R’s have been trying to undermine and privatize the USPS for years.

They will continue to do so. Rather than having talks about changes that could help, we will see the battle go on.

tower912

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Re: US postal service
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2020, 03:02:13 PM »
Tell the president they are making Trump forever stamps.    They will get all the funding they need.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

JWags85

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Re: US postal service
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2020, 05:45:45 PM »
R’s have been trying to undermine and privatize the USPS for years.

They will continue to do so. Rather than having talks about changes that could help, we will see the battle go on.

 ::)

forgetful

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Re: US postal service
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2020, 06:21:26 PM »
I honestly never knew the USPS was in the constitution.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: US postal service
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2020, 06:44:06 PM »
The Constitution gives Congress the power to establish the USPS. It isn’t a requirement.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

MUBurrow

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Re: US postal service
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2020, 07:09:42 PM »
If there is a more on the nose commentary on the contemporary United States than "mail service terminated as part of personal pissing match between President and World's Richest Man," I'm not sure what it is.

Jockey

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Re: US postal service
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2020, 07:10:09 PM »
::)

You can roll your eyes, Wags, but that doesn't stop efforts to privatize USPS. Of course the single biggest reason is because they have a strong union and nothing makes these people happier than busting unions.

Times change, needs change. So as I said, the sides need to get together to come up with solutions.

https://www.csmonitor.com/1995/0207/07014.html

https://www.govexec.com/management/2018/09/dozens-senators-both-parties-push-measure-block-trumps-usps-privatization-plan/151396/

https://www.mahablog.com/2020/04/12/the-republican-plan-to-kill-the-us-postal-service/

https://ourfuture.org/20130210/you-should-be-outraged-by-what-is-being-done-to-our-post-office

https://www.workers.org/2013/08/10387/

forgetful

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Re: US postal service
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2020, 07:11:33 PM »
The Constitution gives Congress the power to establish the USPS. It isn’t a requirement.

That would make more sense. I obviously either misunderstood what the twitter feed was saying, or they misstated it.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: US postal service
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2020, 07:26:51 PM »
That would make more sense. I obviously either misunderstood what the twitter feed was saying, or they misstated it.

They have misstated it in the past to leave people the impression that’s it’s a mandatory service. I think it does a good job.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

JWags85

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Re: US postal service
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2020, 08:44:57 PM »
You can roll your eyes, Wags, but that doesn't stop efforts to privatize USPS. Of course the single biggest reason is because they have a strong union and nothing makes these people happier than busting unions.

Times change, needs change. So as I said, the sides need to get together to come up with solutions.

https://www.csmonitor.com/1995/0207/07014.html

https://www.govexec.com/management/2018/09/dozens-senators-both-parties-push-measure-block-trumps-usps-privatization-plan/151396/

https://www.mahablog.com/2020/04/12/the-republican-plan-to-kill-the-us-postal-service/

https://ourfuture.org/20130210/you-should-be-outraged-by-what-is-being-done-to-our-post-office

https://www.workers.org/2013/08/10387/

And that strong union is why the USPS is a mess and losing money. Their labor, benefit, and pension costs far outweigh what they do best or do well. A downsized and scaled back USPS could find an efficient niche and profitability again, but that would mean layoffs and location closings, and the union would never allow such a thing. Unions are supposed to protect worker rights and benefits, not protect failing/inefficient business segments/industries and handcuff the natural progress and development of the market.

The USPS is great for letters and paper mailing, which is a rapidly declining area. Packages their only benefit is Smartpost or other JVs with other freight carriers. If they weren’t federally backstopped and forced to make money on such segments, their price would rise and Fedex/UPS/etc... would just do it themselves. Nobody ships a package with USPS unless time is unimportant and lowest possible cost is needed.

To think the criticisms of the USPS as it currently stands is really only primarily to defeat a union by evil right wing hyper capitalists is silly agenda driven messaging. That’s why I rolled my eyes.

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Re: US postal service
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2020, 09:42:08 PM »
Isn’t lowest cost shipping kinda a big deal?

JWags85

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Re: US postal service
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2020, 10:20:35 PM »
Isn’t lowest cost shipping kinda a big deal?

Sure, if time is no issue. Which many times isn’t the case. If you have a timeline, i struggle to recall the last time the USPS option going to be most attractive, regardless of price

Jockey

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Re: US postal service
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2020, 12:31:55 AM »
And that strong union is why the USPS is a mess and losing money. Their labor, benefit, and pension costs far outweigh what they do best or do well. A downsized and scaled back USPS could find an efficient niche and profitability again, but that would mean layoffs and location closings, and the union would never allow such a thing. Unions are supposed to protect worker rights and benefits, not protect failing/inefficient business segments/industries and handcuff the natural progress and development of the market.

The USPS is great for letters and paper mailing, which is a rapidly declining area. Packages their only benefit is Smartpost or other JVs with other freight carriers. If they weren’t federally backstopped and forced to make money on such segments, their price would rise and Fedex/UPS/etc... would just do it themselves. Nobody ships a package with USPS unless time is unimportant and lowest possible cost is needed.

To think the criticisms of the USPS as it currently stands is really only primarily to defeat a union by evil right wing hyper capitalists is silly agenda driven messaging. That’s why I rolled my eyes.

Blame the union all you want. But the law passed in 2006 requiring the USPS to prefund 75 years worth of retiree health benefits at a cost of $110 billion - something that no other agency of the Federal Gov't is required to do - had just a bit of an effect on losing money.

I think to ignore the union factor is silly - it has been the goal to destroy unions for 50 years  - it's not some kind of secret.


As far as making changes, you are correct. Things have changed in the last 20 years. That is why I said Congress needs to work together to make changes and streamline where needed. But that isn't gonna happen when one side is fighting to privatize. It just means the other side will dig in their heels even harder and reasonable change won't happen.

rocket surgeon

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Re: US postal service
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2020, 12:47:55 AM »
  Sounds like the Canadian g-string is more for the “union” than they are for the product and/or the results.  Why should one have to pay to be in the club in order to work.

     I trust the individual can make his/her own decisions as opposed to getting “strong armed” into whether he/she wants to work or not for a wage he/she deems fair for him/herself
don't...don't don't don't don't

jesmu84

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Re: US postal service
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2020, 01:27:22 AM »
And that strong union is why the USPS is a mess and losing money. Their labor, benefit, and pension costs far outweigh what they do best or do well. A downsized and scaled back USPS could find an efficient niche and profitability again, but that would mean layoffs and location closings, and the union would never allow such a thing. Unions are supposed to protect worker rights and benefits, not protect failing/inefficient business segments/industries and handcuff the natural progress and development of the market.

The USPS is great for letters and paper mailing, which is a rapidly declining area. Packages their only benefit is Smartpost or other JVs with other freight carriers. If they weren’t federally backstopped and forced to make money on such segments, their price would rise and Fedex/UPS/etc... would just do it themselves. Nobody ships a package with USPS unless time is unimportant and lowest possible cost is needed.

To think the criticisms of the USPS as it currently stands is really only primarily to defeat a union by evil right wing hyper capitalists is silly agenda driven messaging. That’s why I rolled my eyes.

https://theweek.com/articles-amp/767184/how-george-bush-broke-post-office?__twitter_impression=true

From what I've read/seen, the losing money isn't due to the union.

I also have seen that Congress isn't in favor of scaling back. Imagine how reps would vote if it was suggested that all post offices in geographic areas with less than 5000 people should be closed.

Also, i sincerely doubt any private entity is going to deliver to some backwoods address on a regular basis as it would likely be cost-prohibitive. We've already seen that with the extremely slow rollout of high speed internet from private sector.

Lastly, this is a public service. It, currently, serves a purpose. Talking about money with a public service is strange. Should we do away with roads/road construction because maintaining roads is losing money?


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Re: US postal service
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2020, 07:12:15 AM »
Sure, if time is no issue. Which many times isn’t the case. If you have a timeline, i struggle to recall the last time the USPS option going to be most attractive, regardless of price

This most likely because I would be considered rural, but USPS always wins in cheapest pricing and time.

I buy and sell way too much golf crap on various sites. It’s always USPS both ways.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: US postal service
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2020, 07:42:41 AM »
https://theweek.com/articles-amp/767184/how-george-bush-broke-post-office?__twitter_impression=true

From what I've read/seen, the losing money isn't due to the union.

I also have seen that Congress isn't in favor of scaling back. Imagine how reps would vote if it was suggested that all post offices in geographic areas with less than 5000 people should be closed.

Also, i sincerely doubt any private entity is going to deliver to some backwoods address on a regular basis as it would likely be cost-prohibitive. We've already seen that with the extremely slow rollout of high speed internet from private sector.

Lastly, this is a public service. It, currently, serves a purpose. Talking about money with a public service is strange. Should we do away with roads/road construction because maintaining roads is losing money?




Yep.  If you really wanted to lean up the USPS you could do it.  Every other day household delivery.  Close up rural locations. 

But their universal service mandate doesn't allow that to happen.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

warriorchick

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Re: US postal service
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2020, 10:40:55 AM »
USPS doesn't have to pay taxes, or most other government fees that other delivery services incur.  Ever seen a USPS mail truck with a license plate?

USPS has all sorts of competitive advantages and still can't break even.
Have some patience, FFS.

tower912

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Re: US postal service
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2020, 10:51:21 AM »
USPS doesn't have to pay taxes, or most other government fees that other delivery services incur.  Ever seen a USPS mail truck with a license plate?

USPS has all sorts of competitive advantages and still can't break even.

See 'universal service mandate.'     Much like public schools having to take every student while charter and private schools don't.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

warriorchick

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Re: US postal service
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2020, 11:00:45 AM »
See 'universal service mandate.'     Much like public schools having to take every student while charter and private schools don't.


What percentage of the mail is delivered to places that Fedex or UPS don't service on a daily basis?
Have some patience, FFS.

tower912

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Re: US postal service
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2020, 11:05:02 AM »
I don't know.    What percentage is low profit bulk mail?
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

 

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