MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: jesmu84 on April 12, 2020, 01:34:52 PM
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Interesting discussions being had about the future of the USPS.
Thread here with info I never knew:
https://twitter.com/lildipcrap3/status/1248741868440940544?s=19
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Why do people use Twitter for long messages. I'll never understand that.
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But on a real note. A large portion of what the postal service does is obsolete. Bills, Letters, notices, pretty much anything but physical packages are all better served via email.
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These are a couple of articles that help explain what happened to the USPS.
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2018-04-04/congress-not-amazon-messed-up-the-u-s-postal-service?__twitter_impression=true
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a18228/post-office-business-trouble-0213/
https://ips-dc.org/how-congress-manufactured-a-postal-crisis-and-how-to-fix-it/
It's not a federal agency. It doesn't cost taxpayers any money. It's a public service, not set up for profit. And it was running quite well up for some time. It is an essential service that is necessary for people to be able to vote by mail this year.
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R’s have been trying to undermine and privatize the USPS for years.
They will continue to do so. Rather than having talks about changes that could help, we will see the battle go on.
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Tell the president they are making Trump forever stamps. They will get all the funding they need.
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R’s have been trying to undermine and privatize the USPS for years.
They will continue to do so. Rather than having talks about changes that could help, we will see the battle go on.
::)
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I honestly never knew the USPS was in the constitution.
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The Constitution gives Congress the power to establish the USPS. It isn’t a requirement.
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If there is a more on the nose commentary on the contemporary United States than "mail service terminated as part of personal pissing match between President and World's Richest Man," I'm not sure what it is.
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::)
You can roll your eyes, Wags, but that doesn't stop efforts to privatize USPS. Of course the single biggest reason is because they have a strong union and nothing makes these people happier than busting unions.
Times change, needs change. So as I said, the sides need to get together to come up with solutions.
https://www.csmonitor.com/1995/0207/07014.html
https://www.govexec.com/management/2018/09/dozens-senators-both-parties-push-measure-block-trumps-usps-privatization-plan/151396/
https://www.mahablog.com/2020/04/12/the-republican-plan-to-kill-the-us-postal-service/
https://ourfuture.org/20130210/you-should-be-outraged-by-what-is-being-done-to-our-post-office
https://www.workers.org/2013/08/10387/
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The Constitution gives Congress the power to establish the USPS. It isn’t a requirement.
That would make more sense. I obviously either misunderstood what the twitter feed was saying, or they misstated it.
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That would make more sense. I obviously either misunderstood what the twitter feed was saying, or they misstated it.
They have misstated it in the past to leave people the impression that’s it’s a mandatory service. I think it does a good job.
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You can roll your eyes, Wags, but that doesn't stop efforts to privatize USPS. Of course the single biggest reason is because they have a strong union and nothing makes these people happier than busting unions.
Times change, needs change. So as I said, the sides need to get together to come up with solutions.
https://www.csmonitor.com/1995/0207/07014.html
https://www.govexec.com/management/2018/09/dozens-senators-both-parties-push-measure-block-trumps-usps-privatization-plan/151396/
https://www.mahablog.com/2020/04/12/the-republican-plan-to-kill-the-us-postal-service/
https://ourfuture.org/20130210/you-should-be-outraged-by-what-is-being-done-to-our-post-office
https://www.workers.org/2013/08/10387/
And that strong union is why the USPS is a mess and losing money. Their labor, benefit, and pension costs far outweigh what they do best or do well. A downsized and scaled back USPS could find an efficient niche and profitability again, but that would mean layoffs and location closings, and the union would never allow such a thing. Unions are supposed to protect worker rights and benefits, not protect failing/inefficient business segments/industries and handcuff the natural progress and development of the market.
The USPS is great for letters and paper mailing, which is a rapidly declining area. Packages their only benefit is Smartpost or other JVs with other freight carriers. If they weren’t federally backstopped and forced to make money on such segments, their price would rise and Fedex/UPS/etc... would just do it themselves. Nobody ships a package with USPS unless time is unimportant and lowest possible cost is needed.
To think the criticisms of the USPS as it currently stands is really only primarily to defeat a union by evil right wing hyper capitalists is silly agenda driven messaging. That’s why I rolled my eyes.
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Isn’t lowest cost shipping kinda a big deal?
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Isn’t lowest cost shipping kinda a big deal?
Sure, if time is no issue. Which many times isn’t the case. If you have a timeline, i struggle to recall the last time the USPS option going to be most attractive, regardless of price
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And that strong union is why the USPS is a mess and losing money. Their labor, benefit, and pension costs far outweigh what they do best or do well. A downsized and scaled back USPS could find an efficient niche and profitability again, but that would mean layoffs and location closings, and the union would never allow such a thing. Unions are supposed to protect worker rights and benefits, not protect failing/inefficient business segments/industries and handcuff the natural progress and development of the market.
The USPS is great for letters and paper mailing, which is a rapidly declining area. Packages their only benefit is Smartpost or other JVs with other freight carriers. If they weren’t federally backstopped and forced to make money on such segments, their price would rise and Fedex/UPS/etc... would just do it themselves. Nobody ships a package with USPS unless time is unimportant and lowest possible cost is needed.
To think the criticisms of the USPS as it currently stands is really only primarily to defeat a union by evil right wing hyper capitalists is silly agenda driven messaging. That’s why I rolled my eyes.
Blame the union all you want. But the law passed in 2006 requiring the USPS to prefund 75 years worth of retiree health benefits at a cost of $110 billion - something that no other agency of the Federal Gov't is required to do - had just a bit of an effect on losing money.
I think to ignore the union factor is silly - it has been the goal to destroy unions for 50 years - it's not some kind of secret.
As far as making changes, you are correct. Things have changed in the last 20 years. That is why I said Congress needs to work together to make changes and streamline where needed. But that isn't gonna happen when one side is fighting to privatize. It just means the other side will dig in their heels even harder and reasonable change won't happen.
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Sounds like the Canadian g-string is more for the “union” than they are for the product and/or the results. Why should one have to pay to be in the club in order to work.
I trust the individual can make his/her own decisions as opposed to getting “strong armed” into whether he/she wants to work or not for a wage he/she deems fair for him/herself
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And that strong union is why the USPS is a mess and losing money. Their labor, benefit, and pension costs far outweigh what they do best or do well. A downsized and scaled back USPS could find an efficient niche and profitability again, but that would mean layoffs and location closings, and the union would never allow such a thing. Unions are supposed to protect worker rights and benefits, not protect failing/inefficient business segments/industries and handcuff the natural progress and development of the market.
The USPS is great for letters and paper mailing, which is a rapidly declining area. Packages their only benefit is Smartpost or other JVs with other freight carriers. If they weren’t federally backstopped and forced to make money on such segments, their price would rise and Fedex/UPS/etc... would just do it themselves. Nobody ships a package with USPS unless time is unimportant and lowest possible cost is needed.
To think the criticisms of the USPS as it currently stands is really only primarily to defeat a union by evil right wing hyper capitalists is silly agenda driven messaging. That’s why I rolled my eyes.
https://theweek.com/articles-amp/767184/how-george-bush-broke-post-office?__twitter_impression=true
From what I've read/seen, the losing money isn't due to the union.
I also have seen that Congress isn't in favor of scaling back. Imagine how reps would vote if it was suggested that all post offices in geographic areas with less than 5000 people should be closed.
Also, i sincerely doubt any private entity is going to deliver to some backwoods address on a regular basis as it would likely be cost-prohibitive. We've already seen that with the extremely slow rollout of high speed internet from private sector.
Lastly, this is a public service. It, currently, serves a purpose. Talking about money with a public service is strange. Should we do away with roads/road construction because maintaining roads is losing money?
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Sure, if time is no issue. Which many times isn’t the case. If you have a timeline, i struggle to recall the last time the USPS option going to be most attractive, regardless of price
This most likely because I would be considered rural, but USPS always wins in cheapest pricing and time.
I buy and sell way too much golf crap on various sites. It’s always USPS both ways.
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https://theweek.com/articles-amp/767184/how-george-bush-broke-post-office?__twitter_impression=true
From what I've read/seen, the losing money isn't due to the union.
I also have seen that Congress isn't in favor of scaling back. Imagine how reps would vote if it was suggested that all post offices in geographic areas with less than 5000 people should be closed.
Also, i sincerely doubt any private entity is going to deliver to some backwoods address on a regular basis as it would likely be cost-prohibitive. We've already seen that with the extremely slow rollout of high speed internet from private sector.
Lastly, this is a public service. It, currently, serves a purpose. Talking about money with a public service is strange. Should we do away with roads/road construction because maintaining roads is losing money?
Yep. If you really wanted to lean up the USPS you could do it. Every other day household delivery. Close up rural locations.
But their universal service mandate doesn't allow that to happen.
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USPS doesn't have to pay taxes, or most other government fees that other delivery services incur. Ever seen a USPS mail truck with a license plate?
USPS has all sorts of competitive advantages and still can't break even.
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USPS doesn't have to pay taxes, or most other government fees that other delivery services incur. Ever seen a USPS mail truck with a license plate?
USPS has all sorts of competitive advantages and still can't break even.
See 'universal service mandate.' Much like public schools having to take every student while charter and private schools don't.
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See 'universal service mandate.' Much like public schools having to take every student while charter and private schools don't.
What percentage of the mail is delivered to places that Fedex or UPS don't service on a daily basis?
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I don't know. What percentage is low profit bulk mail?
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USPS doesn't have to pay taxes, or most other government fees that other delivery services incur. Ever seen a USPS mail truck with a license plate?
USPS has all sorts of competitive advantages and still can't break even.
Does infrastructure maintenance break even?
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I don't know. What percentage is low profit bulk mail?
If by "bulk mail", you mean "junk mail", that is actually one of most profitable lines of business USPS has.
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What percentage of the mail is delivered to places that Fedex or UPS don't service on a daily basis?
A large percentage. The USPS delivers mail to almost every address in the country on a daily basis. I doubt UPS or Fed Ex deliver to 10% of the addresses daily.
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A large percentage. The USPS delivers mail to almost every address in the country on a daily basis. I doubt UPS or Fed Ex deliver to 10% of the addresses daily.
I was referring to service areas. How many areas in the U.S. don't have daily service from UPS and/or Fedex, assuming that they have something to deliver?
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https://www.merchantmaverick.com/usps-vs-ups-vs-fedex-which-shipping-carrier-is-best/
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I was referring to service areas. How many areas in the U.S. don't have daily service from UPS and/or Fedex, assuming that they have something to deliver?
All of them.
But my guess it is a lot more cost effective to deliver a package that people spend a couple $$ to deliver versus a few bulk mailings that cost about $.20 apeice.
Don't get me wrong, I think there are a lot of inefficiencies at the USPS, but their business model stinks. They deliver a TON of mail to almost every address in the country for very little money per piece.
Versus UPS and FedEx that deliver to much less household and can charge a relative premium.
On top of that, there are over 30,000 post offices nationwide. Yes, they don't pay property taxes, but they all are staffed at least partially. Now contrast that with 5,000 UPS stores, which are all run through a franchise arrangement.
The union is only a part of the problem. The USPS business model absolutely stinks.
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USPS doesn't have to pay taxes, or most other government fees that other delivery services incur. Ever seen a USPS mail truck with a license plate?
USPS has all sorts of competitive advantages and still can't break even.
The PAEA of 2006 required the USPS to prefund the retirement benefits of the USPS through 2056. No other public or private entity has had this requirement. $5 billion per year. Without this obligation the USPS turns a profit. It’s a huge competitive disadvantage. Their parcel delivery service is profitable.
The USPS can only charge what Congress allows.
Unlike the private sector, the USPS is barred from lobbying Congress to change the rules.
Mail volumes have declined slightly while package volumes have increased a lot.
The PAEA bars the U.S. postal service from pricing parcel delivery below cost.
Pricing, locations, hiring, funding, all limitations that the private sector does not have.
In 2006 the USPS had a $900 million profit. Congress changed that to inexplicably require a $72 billion fund to pay for post retirement healthcare costs 75 years into the future.
If the mandate was removed, the USPS would have annual profits.
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A lot of work goes into making this difficult. If you want people in rural areas to be able to send or receive mail for $0.50 per piece - regardless of what kind of mail or why it is sent - then you take your lumps and live with USPS "losing money" (setting aside for a moment the mandate they prepay their reitrement benefits). If you don't find mail service a compelling interest to be supported outside capitalistic competition, then USPS is increasingly unnecessary and redundant. Anything else is just tinkering on the margins or window dressing.
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A lot of people here acting like USPS is some enormous drain on the US budget.
Also a lot of people here acting like the USPS should be run like a business.
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This most likely because I would be considered rural, but USPS always wins in cheapest pricing and time.
I buy and sell way too much golf crap on various sites. It’s always USPS both ways.
Buy and sell tons of vintage baseball cards - always USPS.
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The PAEA of 2006 required the USPS to prefund the retirement benefits of the USPS through 2056. No other public or private entity has had this requirement. $5 billion per year. Without this obligation the USPS turns a profit. It’s a huge competitive disadvantage. Their parcel delivery service is profitable.
I mentioned that earlier when Wags blamed things on the union. That was passed strictly for the purpose to try to privatize the USPS. If the Rs could make sure the bottom line showed a huge loss, they could make a case to privatize. Been their goal since at least the mid-90s.
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I mentioned that earlier when Wags blamed things on the union. That was passed strictly for the purpose to try to privatize the USPS. If the Rs could make sure the bottom line showed a huge loss, they could make a case to privatize. Been their goal since at least the mid-90s.
I posted a few helpful articles earlier in the thread that I’m sure some didn’t see or read. They are worth a look for some, explaining how we got here, and in one, some possible solutions.
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I posted a few helpful articles earlier in the thread that I’m sure some didn’t see or read. They are worth a look for some, explaining how we got here, and in one, some possible solutions.
Gracias.
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If you don't realize why the USPS is suddenly being made an issue in April 2020, given the circumstances of the country/world. Then you are either confidently ignorant (the #1 most desirable trait to political candidates) or just playing dumb.
Driving low turnout is a religion for some now.
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And that strong union is why the USPS is a mess and losing money. Their labor, benefit, and pension costs far outweigh what they do best or do well. A downsized and scaled back USPS could find an efficient niche and profitability again, but that would mean layoffs and location closings, and the union would never allow such a thing. Unions are supposed to protect worker rights and benefits, not protect failing/inefficient business segments/industries and handcuff the natural progress and development of the market.
The USPS is great for letters and paper mailing, which is a rapidly declining area. Packages their only benefit is Smartpost or other JVs with other freight carriers. If they weren’t federally backstopped and forced to make money on such segments, their price would rise and Fedex/UPS/etc... would just do it themselves. Nobody ships a package with USPS unless time is unimportant and lowest possible cost is needed.
To think the criticisms of the USPS as it currently stands is really only primarily to defeat a union by evil right wing hyper capitalists is silly agenda driven messaging. That’s why I rolled my eyes.
Justin
Framing business cases for the unsophisticated is a Fool's Game. You know better than that.
How're things in these Altered States?
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If you don't realize why the USPS is suddenly being made an issue in April 2020, given the circumstances of the country/world. Then you are either confidently ignorant (the #1 most desirable trait to political candidates) or just playing dumb.
Driving low turnout is a religion for some now.
Are you really saying the dismantling of the post office nationwide is simply a Republican ploy to lower absentee voting? Cause I'd say you've had a bit to much sauce.
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Are you really saying the dismantling of the post office nationwide is simply a Republican ploy to lower absentee voting? Cause I'd say you've had a bit to much sauce.
I think it is just a spite move by Trump against Bezos.
The fact that 100,000 Vets work for USPS doesn’t even enter his “thought process”. ( I know. Thought process and Trump in a sentence that doesn’t use a negative seems kinda weird.)
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IBTL
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Are you really saying the dismantling of the post office nationwide is simply a Republican ploy to lower absentee voting? Cause I'd say you've had a bit to much sauce.
I'm not predicting it will occur, I'm saying that it surely figures into their calculation. When you're down by 5 with 10 seconds left you tend to start throwing Hail Mary's.
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I think it is just a spite move by Trump against Bezos.
The fact that 100,000 Vets work for USPS doesn’t even enter his “thought process”. ( I know. Thought process and Trump in a sentence that doesn’t use a negative seems kinda weird.)
Boy the tin foil hat crowd is out today. I don't see any evidence of anybody going after the USPS.
Thinking like that is why the D's have been "Rope A Dope"ed for three years
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I think it is just a spite move by Trump against Bezos.
The fact that 100,000 Vets work for USPS doesn’t even enter his “thought process”. ( I know. Thought process and Trump in a sentence that doesn’t use a negative seems kinda weird.)
Trump confirmed this today. Either raise prices for Amazon or there will be no loan to USPS.
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I get a ton of Amazon packages .. I'd say maybe 10% are delivered by USPS. Most are by Amazon Delivery Their truck is going down my street at least 2x per day.
I imagine Amazon's delivery is focused on the 50 largest metro areas .. so raising prices on Amazon/USPS likely targets rural areas, Trump country.
If Trump gets his 400% increase on Amazon postal packages, UPS will be cheaper and they'll switch to that .. further damaging USPS.
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Trump confirmed this today. Either raise prices for Amazon or there will be no loan to USPS.
So they’ll use FedEx instead. This is a monumentally stupid idea.
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I get a ton of Amazon packages .. I'd say maybe 10% are delivered by USPS. Most are by Amazon Delivery Their truck is going down my street at least 2x per day.
I imagine Amazon's delivery is focused on the 50 largest metro areas .. so raising prices on Amazon/USPS likely targets rural areas, Trump country.
If Trump gets his 400% increase on Amazon postal packages, UPS will be cheaper and they'll switch to that .. further damaging USPS.
This is why he already has backed off his initial, knee-jerk stance. Later Friday, he twitted:
"It has been mismanaged for years, especially since the advent of the internet and modern-day technology. The people that work there are great, and we’re going to keep them happy, healthy, and well!"
As is often the case, he contradicts himself within hours of saying something.
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C’mon y’all, ignore what he says, and just focus on what he does ::)
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C’mon y’all, ignore what he says, and just focus on what he does ::)
Hey ... stop stealing that eye-roll emoji from his medical experts! They have to use it often.
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The PAEA of 2006 required the USPS to prefund the retirement benefits of the USPS through 2056. No other public or private entity has had this requirement. $5 billion per year. Without this obligation the USPS turns a profit. It%u2019s a huge competitive disadvantage. Their parcel delivery service is profitable.
Maybe if Illinois pre-funded its pension obligations, it would be what it's supposed to be, the economic engine of the Midwest.
As to the USPS, the problem is simple: the business model doesn't work. There's little innovation and it doesn't change because anytime anyone threatens to reduce a single postal job, thousands of unionized postal employees bombard Congress with mail, calls, emails etc. It has the same problem Amtrak does: It's a 1930s business in 2020 where labor is protected by arcane rules and Congress is afraid to do almost anything to streamline it. Those postal workers vote!
Big problem America has to address is whether government exists for the benefit of the people or whether government exists for the benefit of government employees. The answer to this question decides whether the postal service is reformed.
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Maybe if Illinois pre-funded its pension obligations, it would be what it's supposed to be, the economic engine of the Midwest.
As to the USPS, the problem is simple: the business model doesn't work. There's little innovation and it doesn't change because anytime anyone threatens to reduce a single postal job, thousands of unionized postal employees bombard Congress with mail, calls, emails etc. It has the same problem Amtrak does: It's a 1930s business in 2020 where labor is protected by arcane rules and Congress is afraid to do almost anything to streamline it. Those postal workers vote!
Big problem America has to address is whether government exists for the benefit of the people or whether government exists for the benefit of government employees. The answer to this question decides whether the postal service is reformed.
It’s a public service, not a for profit company.
It was doing just fine before the inexplicable actions of Congress.
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There's little innovation and it doesn't change because anytime anyone threatens to reduce a single postal job, thousands of unionized postal employees bombard Congress with mail, calls, emails etc.
It's cute that you think people contacting their representatives does something.
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It's cute that you think people contacting their representatives does something.
I formerly worked for Amtrak and that's exactly what happened.
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It’s a public service, not a for profit company.
It was doing just fine before the inexplicable actions of Congress.
As a public service, the business model doesn't work. The only people being served are Amazon and junk mail mailers.
Boy I'm happy beyond belief my tax dollars are subsidizing garbage from the latest auto repair scam. Or some realtor trying to get me to sell my home.
What a waste of money. The postal service will be in the 21st century when the country is in the 24th.
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This is why he already has backed off his initial, knee-jerk stance. Later Friday, he twitted:
"It has been mismanaged for years, especially since the advent of the internet and modern-day technology. The people that work there are great, and we’re going to keep them happy, healthy, and well!"
As is often the case, he contradicts himself within hours of saying something.
He was for killing it before he was against it. That's his way, it changes daily if not hourly. He's crazy.
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As a public service, the business model doesn't work. The only people being served are Amazon and junk mail mailers.
Boy I'm happy beyond belief my tax dollars are subsidizing garbage from the latest auto repair scam. Or some realtor trying to get me to sell my home.
What a waste of money. The postal service will be in the 21st century when the country is in the 24th.
The USPS is in the Constitution, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 7.
(You know the people who love the Constitution when it serves their purposes are crickets now)
The USPS receives zero tax dollar funding, none, cero. It relies on products, services, postage for funding. And it has been highly profitable despite not needing to be profitable because it is a public service, not a business.
The USPS delivers 1.2 billion packages of RX medicine annually for those that need it.
The USPS delivers packages every day for UPS, FedEx, Amazon, DHL, etc...
The USPS is one of the largest employers of veterans, people of color, and women in the United States.
In Sept 2006, the USPS had a profit of $900 million. In December of 2006, Republicans mandated 75 year retirement pre-funding at a cost of $5 billion per year. Maybe take up your angst with them.
This is about the USPS offering affordable, significantly lower costs for services than private companies who charge significantly more. It’s about both self serving political and business opportunities. And if DT has a vendetta against Bezos, perhaps working on getting them a higher tax rate higher than 1.2 % last year on $13 billion profits would be a better place to start.
Wealthy corporate bailouts are ok, but helping the USPS is not? Nah.
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The USPS is in the Constitution, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 7.
(You know the people who love the Constitution when it serves their purposes are crickets now)
The USPS receives zero tax dollar funding, none, cero. It relies on products, services, postage for funding. And it has been highly profitable despite not needing to be profitable because it is a public service, not a business.
The USPS delivers 1.2 billion packages of RX medicine annually for those that need it.
The USPS delivers packages every day for UPS, FedEx, Amazon, DHL, etc...
The USPS is one of the largest employers of veterans, people of color, and women in the United States.
In Sept 2006, the USPS had a profit of $900 million. In December of 2006, Republicans mandated 75 year retirement pre-funding at a cost of $5 billion per year. Maybe take up your angst with them.
This is about the USPS offering affordable, significantly lower costs for services than private companies who charge significantly more. It’s about both self serving political and business opportunities. And if DT has a vendetta against Bezos, perhaps working on getting them a higher tax rate higher than 1.2 % last year on $13 billion profits would be a better place to start.
Wealthy corporate bailouts are ok, but helping the USPS is not? Nah.
Thank you, Mr. Gailey.
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The USPS is in the Constitution, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 7.
(You know the people who love the Constitution when it serves their purposes are crickets now)
The Constitution empowers Congress to "to establish post offices and post roads." It's not required.
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The Constitution empowers Congress to "to establish post offices and post roads." It's not required.
Lol. Thanks for the laugh, and for illustrating the point made above, good job.
$900 million profit in 2006. Outgoing Republican House and Senate passes inexplicable 75 year retirement prefund at $5 billion a year for political gain, cronyism at its best.
Now point to where it says the words individual gun ownership in the 2nd Amendment...spoiler alert, it's not there. You know, during the time of one shot muskets and the War of Independence. It does say well regulated militias.
Let"s bail out wealthy corporations instead of the public service need for many.
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Lol. Thanks for the laugh, and for illustrating the point made above, good job.
Sorry, I have no idea what you are laughing about. The postal service should be bailed out because it is an important service. And yes, the union has been a bogeyman too much in this discusison.
But it is not a service mandated by the Constitution. The entire Section starts with "The Congress shall have Power..." and then details the enumerated powers granted to Congress. It doesn't say anthing about being required to use any of those powers.
Sorry but you can't spike the ball on others knowing the Constitution and go about making that very simple mistake.
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Sorry, I have no idea what you are laughing about. The postal service should be bailed out because it is an important service. And yes, the union has been a bogeyman too much in this discusison.
But it is not a service mandated by the Constitution. The entire Section starts with "The Congress shall have Power..." and then details the enumerated powers granted to Congress. It doesn't say anthing about being required to use any of those powers.
Sorry but you can't spike the ball on others knowing the Constitution and go about making that very simple mistake.
No need to be sorry. I didn't make any mistakes. I said it was in the Constitution, and it is. And it quintupled shortly after. Context matters.
I also referenced those that pick and choose what to protect and preserve in the Constitution. (and not)
Again, I appreciate you illustrating my point.
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Boy I'm happy beyond belief my tax dollars are subsidizing garbage from the latest auto repair scam. Or some realtor trying to get me to sell my home.
What a waste of money. The postal service will be in the 21st century when the country is in the 24th.
Except your tax dollars aren't subsidizing anything, USPS is a self-funding organization. If they did not have to fund pensions 75 years in advance, which no other organization public or private is required to do and costs them $5.5B/year, they would be turning a profit. So really, the business model isn't broken given that they can turn a profit, but has been pointed out, the are a service organization, no a for-profit business, even though they can in fact turn a profit.
That isn't to say the USPS shouldn't continue to look for improvements and efficiencies. There have been proposals to allow the post office to provide more services, which would beneficial to underserved rural communities, but business has opposed these ideas.
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As a public service, the business model doesn't work. The only people being served are Amazon and junk mail mailers.
Boy I'm happy beyond belief my tax dollars are subsidizing garbage from the latest auto repair scam. Or some realtor trying to get me to sell my home.
What a waste of money. The postal service will be in the 21st century when the country is in the 24th.
Once you take away the 75 year pension funding requirement, they were operating in the black while guaranteeing mail service to every unprofitable corner of the country. How is that only providing a service to Amazon and junk mail mailers?
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And that strong union is why the USPS is a mess and losing money. Their labor, benefit, and pension costs far outweigh what they do best or do well. A downsized and scaled back USPS could find an efficient niche and profitability again, but that would mean layoffs and location closings, and the union would never allow such a thing. Unions are supposed to protect worker rights and benefits, not protect failing/inefficient business segments/industries and handcuff the natural progress and development of the market.
The USPS is great for letters and paper mailing, which is a rapidly declining area. Packages their only benefit is Smartpost or other JVs with other freight carriers. If they weren’t federally backstopped and forced to make money on such segments, their price would rise and Fedex/UPS/etc... would just do it themselves. Nobody ships a package with USPS unless time is unimportant and lowest possible cost is needed.
To think the criticisms of the USPS as it currently stands is really only primarily to defeat a union by evil right wing hyper capitalists is silly agenda driven messaging. That’s why I rolled my eyes.
Right on brother.
It's part of the plan and one of the last dominos to fall.
FedEx is an airline with local delivery franchisees who underpay and in my neck of the woods the drivers are fired before unemployment benefits can kick in. The term scab and rat come to mind.
About the USPS, again in my neck of the woods, they have privatized delivery a long time ago.
The counter people work for the service, but trucking and rural deliver has been outsourced.
First the corporations took away benefits from their workers, now they come for the remaing workers with benefits.
Next subject, the funding of pensions, not of government workers, but of the corporate retirees.
The idealogues have lost control of the country, good going guys.
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At a Senate hearing on the USPS in 2019, The Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs discussed recommendations from a task force appointed by President Trump that include cutting or privatizing various postal services, increasing delivery prices, and eliminating employees’ rights to collective bargaining.
Committee Chair Ron Johnson seized on the anti-union proposals. He repeatedly inquired about the wages and benefits that USPS employees enjoy compared to private sector employees and questioned whether postal workers should be allowed to continue to collectively bargain over wages.
So, yes, this is about about trying to eliminate the union. Add the revenge factor against Bezos and we see why the White House wants to destroy USPS
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He was for killing it before he was against it. That's his way, it changes daily if not hourly. He's crazy.
Give the poor guy a break, he is in over his head, he has serious mental and emotional issues, he has no qualifications for the job, and he surrounds himself with lapdogs. The job is really difficult, "who knew"? "In a very short time" it will be over and he can go back to running his rackets. I feel sorry for him, the poor guy was just running a scam and then he ended up getting elected, it's not his fault. The system did it to him. Only 6 months to go, how much harm can he do in 6 months?
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Give the poor guy a break, he is in over his head, he has serious mental and emotional issues, he has no qualifications for the job, and he surrounds himself with lapdogs. The job is really difficult, "who knew"? "In a very short time" it will be over and he can go back to running his rackets. I feel sorry for him, the poor guy was just running a scam and then he ended up getting elected, it's not his fault. The system did it to him. Only 6 months to go, how much harm can he do in 6 months?
I prefer not to give him a break, will be glad when he is gone. Unfortunately what we will be throwing up to take him on is a shadow of himself and was never an intellectual man, to begin with. This should be a layup, but probably will not be.
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Once you take away the 75 year pension funding requirement, they were operating in the black while guaranteeing mail service to every unprofitable corner of the country. How is that only providing a service to Amazon and junk mail mailers?
Brother Burrow:
First class mail volume (letters and bills) is down something like 50 percent from a few years ago. Making sure every corner of the country has first class mail service is the premise on which the post office hangs its shield. Period. But is the current structure of the postal service needed to do that? I’d argue it isn’t — at least not to the extent it once was.
With email, electronic bill pay and bill transmission and electronic service of legal notices, we simply don’t need the postal service we had 40 or more years ago. While I don’t argue we need some type of federally mandated means of moving letters and packages, the existing post office is a dinosaur. It’s featherbedded out its backside and the union too often protects people who are dragging the system down.
The problem with the postal service, like Amtrak, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae and other GSEs is that they’re living in the past and can’t embrace the future. Top that off with the fact that the biggest part of the Democratic Party is government employees and innovation will come right after the rapture.
The big question we have to ask is: Do People Exist for Government? Or, Does Government Exist for People? Secondly, one must ask whether government exists to employ people or to serve people?
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Brother Burrow:
Top that off with the fact that the biggest part of the Democratic Party is government employees and innovation will come right after the rapture.
Do you have proof for this claim? I contend that it is a lie.
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Based on my personal experience, the vast majority of government employees are apolitical. I have worked for 6 presidents, abeit at lower levels of the bureaucracy, and have found most government workers focused on doing the job at hand. Interestingly, 90% of government workers are introverts. There is very little political talk among them.
Furthermore we have the Hatch Act which curtails political activity. President Reagan loosened the regulations, but it remains influential in controling political activity.
Presidents come and presidents go, no need to get political.
Even more so, political appointees come and go as well.
Many citizen's have strongly held beliefs surrounding the functioning of government while they don't know what they are talking about.
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There's this from last year.
MAY 13, 2019
Postal Service Still Americans' Favorite Federal Agency
BY LYDIA SAAD
https://news.gallup.com/poll/257510/postal-service-americans-favorite-federal-agency.aspx
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There's this from last year.
MAY 13, 2019
Postal Service Still Americans' Favorite Federal Agency
BY LYDIA SAAD
https://news.gallup.com/poll/257510/postal-service-americans-favorite-federal-agency.aspx
In the private sector, having only 74% "good or excellent" could get you fired.
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There's this from last year.
MAY 13, 2019
Postal Service Still Americans' Favorite Federal Agency
BY LYDIA SAAD
https://news.gallup.com/poll/257510/postal-service-americans-favorite-federal-agency.aspx
Putting out songs like “Such Great Heights” has to help.
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The big question we have to ask is: Do People Exist for Government? Or, Does Government Exist for People? Secondly, one must ask whether government exists to employ people or to serve people?
In the private sector, having only 74% "good or excellent" could get you fired.
If this pandemic has shown me anything, it is that swallowing the costs of a couple of services designed to service everyone - even/especially the people that private sector profitability would otherwise leave behind - is worth it. It provides a service in itself, binds us all together, and creates infrastructure for on-the-fly adjustments when we need to reach everyone. E.g. we're talking about eliminating USPS for being unprofitable at a time when showing up to the polls in person is literally killing us. You just aren't going to convince me that isn't a perverse way to look at this.
If, god forbid, in subsidizing those services (which still isn't a point I'm willing to concede on USPS, but it also isn't a point I need to debate to reach this conclusion) we can give people socially-mobile jobs that the private sector wouldn't otherwise provide, even better. No one working for the post office or in an on-the-ground government post is getting rich. Lamenting my mail carrier's salary while every upper-level function of government is increasingly designed to privatize public resources on a mass scale is confusing to me at best. Sure it'd be nice if USPS evolved more quickly and was utilized as a network for other services we should be providing - vote by mail, maybe the census. But of the battles to pick right now, this will always strike me as strange.
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This thread just reminded that we hadn't seen my regular mailman if over 3 weeks. We finally saw him Saturday and he said he was out sick with Coronavirus.
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In the private sector, having only 74% "good or excellent" could get you fired.
Morning Consult surveyed 400,000 Anericans asking their 25 most favorite brands (divided into four categories.) The highest score was 261.9 out of 400.
https://morningconsult.com/most-loved-brands-2019/
Amazon finished first. Here is their score:
79.1% of consumers have a favorable opinion
58.7% of consumers say Amazon has a positive community impact
68.3% of consumers trust Amazon
55.8 is the Net Promoter Score for Amazon
79.1 + 58.7 + 68.3 + 55.3 = 261.9 (their index score)
The United States Post Office finished 6th on the list of Americans 25 favorites.
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Morning Consult surveyed 400,000 Anericans asking their 25 most favorite brands (divided into four categories.) The highest score was 261.9 out of 400.
https://morningconsult.com/most-loved-brands-2019/
Amazon finished first. Here is their score:
79.1% of consumers have a favorable opinion
58.7% of consumers say Amazon has a positive community impact
68.3% of consumers trust Amazon
55.8 is the Net Promoter Score for Amazon
79.1 + 58.7 + 68.3 + 55.3 = 261.9 (their index score)
The United States Post Office finished 6th on the list of Americans 25 favorites.
It's too bad that you can't drill down to get just the favorable opinion rating on all of the brands. Then you really could compare apples to apples. My guess is that the USPS gets higher rating in some of the other categories that boosts their overall score.
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It's too bad that you can't drill down to get just the favorable opinion rating on all of the brands. Then you really could compare apples to apples. My guess is that the USPS gets higher rating in some of the other categories that boosts their overall score.
The overall point is that the USPS has had the highest rating from a government standpoint, and, it also has a very high rating even compared to the apples and oranges of the private sector vs public sector. And, it also shows that favorable percentage ratings aren’t as high as you may think in general for even the best rated corporations and brands.
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The overall point is that the USPS has had the highest rating from a government standpoint, and, it also has a very high rating even compared to the apples and oranges of the private sector vs public sector. And, it also shows that favorable percentage ratings aren’t as high as you may think in general for even the best rated corporations and brands.
With the point being it doesn't make sense for one political party to try and kick the USPS around because mostly everyone regardless of political affiliation likes the USPS.
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Big fan of the USPS here... What they do vs. the cost to consumer is pretty amazing. The last mile is very important. I've lived in a lot of countries where that just doesn't exist... and you must go to a post office and queue to get your mail / package /etc.
Having said that, paying top dollar for semi-skilled work is never a good practice. They pay about 50% more than Amazon based on what I can find.
Overall, their (mis) management by the federal government is proof that the government should not be allowed to run anything... they will screw it up somehow. In the case of the USPS, the pension thing is bizarre and stupid, but I'm sure if it wasn't that, there would be any number of other ways the government could screw it up.
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Having said that, paying top dollar for semi-skilled work is never a good practice. They pay about 50% more than Amazon based on what I can find.
IMO, maybe that is OK. Maybe it is OK to pay workers above subsistence wages--and I say that as an AMZN shareholder.
The USPS was still paying its own way and making a profit prior to the Republicans ramming through the pension funding requirement. Like any other entity, they should continue to evolve, but they are pretty good at what they do while doing it at a fair price and while paying workers living wages.
Rather than trying to push down their workers' pay, I'd like to see companies pay wages that DON'T force their employees to rely on government subsidies.
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IMO, maybe that is OK. Maybe it is OK to pay workers above subsistence wages--and I say that as an AMZN shareholder.
The USPS was still paying its own way and making a profit prior to the Republicans ramming through the pension funding requirement. Like any other entity, they should continue to evolve, but they are pretty good at what they do while doing it at a fair price and while paying workers living wages.
Rather than trying to push down their workers' pay, I'd like to see companies pay wages that DON'T force their employees to rely on government subsidies.
Yep, this. Many are finding out during the pandemic that many of the workers they were previously dismissive of, are the essential workers that deserve higher pay, better benefits, paid sick leave. Hopefully some people will learn the definiton of essential worker, and understand much more more needs to be done for them, not less
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Agree with both of those posts. We should not want to keep pushing wages down.
I am always think of a fan group I was part of decades ago. While most of us were college students looking forward to careers, one guy was just not capable. You could ‘train’ him for jobs from now until doomsday, but pretty much all he was ever able to work at was low-tech factory jobs and as a messenger.
He is retired now, living simply, but I remain steadfast in my belief that we have to have a way for everyone to have a decent life. And driving pay down is not the way.
And certainly those working what I call the unseen and unacknowledged front lines deserve the same.
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Bunch of socialist heathens in here
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Bunch of socialist heathens in here
It is the end of Ayn Rand, trickel down economics, free market globalization, employer provided health care, the IRA "investor society", hedge fund fortunes, income inequality, and deregulation of Wall Street and banking.
Way back in 1965 I had an economics professor at Marquette promoting an economist named Joseph Schumpeter. I was too young, too conservative, and too right wing to get the message. The politicians, pundits, and propagandists can't stop the unfolding of economics. I have sad news for you, the end game is socialism.
Economics determines our politics, not the other way round. Economics evolves toward socialism, the politics can delay the inevitable, but it can't change the inevitable.
I agree with you, we have lots of socialist heathens here, but are they economists or politicians?
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It is the end of Ayn Rand, trickel down economics, free market globalization, employer provided health care, the IRA "investor society", hedge fund fortunes, income inequality, and deregulation of Wall Street and banking.
Way back in 1965 I had an economics professor at Marquette promoting an economist named Joseph Schumpeter. I was too young, too conservative, and too right wing to get the message. The politicians, pundits, and propagandists can't stop the unfolding of economics. I have sad news for you, the end game is socialism.
Economics determines our politics, not the other way round. Economics evolves toward socialism, the politics can delay the inevitable, but it can't change the inevitable.
I agree with you, we have lots of socialist heathens here, but are they economists or politicians?
No it isn't. It trends more in that direction everyday.
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No it isn't. It trends more in that direction everyday.
Good luck, must admit, it was good while it lasted.
GO WARRIORS!
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This will merely accelerate the automation of the essential workforce.
Every single role that is semi-skilled but essential is now brought into focus the need to automate. Take the human out of the loop and both your normal cost exposure and your risk exposure go away.
Take the USPS, no reason they couldn't move to a drone model on the urban/suburban locations. Think mothership driven by a human that then dispatches drones that put the mail in mailboxes within a building/subdivision. The more rural areas are harder but the risk profile is lower. At a minimum you can reduce the human labor pool by a third while maintaining or increasing efficiency.
So short term those roles may see a pay increase/more support but in the medium/long term they'll be scrapped
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This will merely accelerate the automation of the essential workforce.
Every single role that is semi-skilled but essential is now brought into focus the need to automate. Take the human out of the loop and both your normal cost exposure and your risk exposure go away.
Take the USPS, no reason they couldn't move to a drone model on the urban/suburban locations. Think mothership driven by a human that then dispatches drones that put the mail in mailboxes within a building/subdivision. The more rural areas are harder but the risk profile is lower. At a minimum you can reduce the human labor pool by a third while maintaining or increasing efficiency.
So short term those roles may see a pay increase/more support but in the medium/long term they'll be scrapped
While understandable, this will devastate the country.
I say "devastate" because there's no way we institute a UBI or other social programs to offset the loss of jobs and further movement of wealth toward the top of society.
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While understandable, this will devastate the country.
I say "devastate" because there's no way we institute a UBI or other social programs to offset the loss of jobs and further movement of wealth toward the top of society.
Yes and no, just like with the invention of agriculture and the industrial revolution there will be displacement and "upheaval" but new jobs with different skill sets will be created....say drone repair person or mail route optimizer, etc.
The fallacy of automation is that it's all job loss, which there is typically a net loss but jobs are also created and efficiencies gained that are passed on to consumers reducing their costs, etc.
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This will merely accelerate the automation of the essential workforce.
Every single role that is semi-skilled but essential is now brought into focus the need to automate. Take the human out of the loop and both your normal cost exposure and your risk exposure go away.
Take the USPS, no reason they couldn't move to a drone model on the urban/suburban locations. Think mothership driven by a human that then dispatches drones that put the mail in mailboxes within a building/subdivision. The more rural areas are harder but the risk profile is lower. At a minimum you can reduce the human labor pool by a third while maintaining or increasing efficiency.
So short term those roles may see a pay increase/more support but in the medium/long term they'll be scrapped
Interesting, but economics isn't science fiction. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. All jobs can be automated, outsourced, or reconfigured.
Accountants, actuaries, lawyers, doctors, teachers, architects, reale estate professionals, air trafic controllers, bankers, secretaries/administrative assistants, you name it, everything is subject to downsizing. Why pick on the postal workers? Why pick on the teachers? Oh, unions, politics, got it.
My town has 1,644 people and hasc 7 banks??? No jobs, lots of banks, go figure.
We have reached end game for the small business, service based economy. Forget pie in the sky dreams, its over. The problem is not a lack of automation, it is millions of unemployed people with no future.
Increases in productivity is not the solution. That is old "supply side" vudo economics. We need to revisit old concepts like the multiplier effect, value added tax, tax on wealth not income, inheritance taxation, infrastructure investment, etc..
"Believe me", the post office is the least of our problems.
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Interesting, but economics isn't science fiction. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. All jobs can be automated, outsourced, or reconfigured.
Accountants, actuaries, lawyers, doctors, teachers, architects, reale estate professionals, air trafic controllers, bankers, secretaries/administrative assistants, you name it, everything is subject to downsizing. Why pick on the postal workers? Why pick on the teachers? Oh, unions, politics, got it.
My town has 1,644 people and hasc 7 banks??? No jobs, lots of banks, go figure.
We have reached end game for the small business, service based economy. Forget pie in the sky dreams, its over. The problem is not a lack of automation, it is millions of unemployed people with no future.
Increases in productivity is not the solution. That is old "supply side" vudo economics. We need to revisit old concepts like the multiplier effect, value added tax, tax on wealth not income, inheritance taxation, infrastructure investment, etc..
"Believe me", the post office is the least of our problems.
Ok boomer.
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While understandable, this will devastate the country.
I say "devastate" because there's no way we institute a UBI or other social programs to offset the loss of jobs and further movement of wealth toward the top of society.
People have predicted the permanent loss of jobs from technology since the invention of the wheel. Somehow, the world always manages to produce new ones.
How many people have jobs now that didn't even exist a generation ago?
How many social media directors were there in 1985? How many web designers? How many network administrators? How many electric car battery technicians? How many solar panel installers? How many "smart home" consultants?
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The fallacy of automation is that it's all job loss, which there is typically a net loss but jobs are also created and efficiencies gained that are passed on to consumers reducing their costs, etc.
People have predicted the permanent loss of jobs from technology since the invention of the wheel. Somehow, the world always manages to produce new ones.
How many people have jobs now that didn't even exist a generation ago?
How many social media directors were there in 1985? How many web designers? How many network administrators? How many electric car battery technicians? How many solar panel installers? How many "smart home" consultants?
Of course this is true, but the real story is how the profit margins created by this automation are (or are not) put to work for societal gain. The number jobs that are created through these processes are fewer than the number eliminated. And even if the new jobs are higher paying, the new jobs' aggregate wages are less than the aggregate wages of the old jobs, or there wouldn't be any incentive for the automation. The profit margins realized by automation are via the increased productivity per worker, and those margins are going somewhere. Unless you subscribe to trickle down economics, there isn't enough new value being created to offset the automation margins that are leaving the community, and life just gets crappier for most people.
We have de facto decided that all of those margins belong to the owners of capital who have instigated the automation, larger scale consequences be damned.
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Of course this is true, but the real story is how the profit margins created by this automation are (or are not) put to work for societal gain. The number jobs that are created through these processes are fewer than the number eliminated. And even if the new jobs are higher paying, the new jobs' aggregate wages are less than the aggregate wages of the old jobs, or there wouldn't be any incentive for the automation. The profit margins realized by automation are via the increased productivity per worker, and those margins are going somewhere. Unless you subscribe to trickle down economics, there isn't enough new value being created to offset the automation margins that are leaving the community, and life just gets crappier for most people.
We have de facto decided that all of those margins belong to the owners of capital who have instigated the automation, larger scale consequences be damned.
Are you sure about the bolded?
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Are you sure about the bolded?
Does the bolded matter much if the rest is true?
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Yes and no, just like with the invention of agriculture and the industrial revolution there will be displacement and "upheaval" but new jobs with different skill sets will be created....say drone repair person or mail route optimizer, etc.
The fallacy of automation is that it's all job loss, which there is typically a net loss but jobs are also created and efficiencies gained that are passed on to consumers reducing their costs, etc.
Totally on board. One ideal I hold is that with the advent of automation, there needs to be some sort of way to keep people around. UBI and a hefty tax on automated systems alongside with reduced work schedules should be something we should all strive for as a society.
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Of course this is true, but the real story is how the profit margins created by this automation are (or are not) put to work for societal gain. The number jobs that are created through these processes are fewer than the number eliminated. And even if the new jobs are higher paying, the new jobs' aggregate wages are less than the aggregate wages of the old jobs, or there wouldn't be any incentive for the automation. The profit margins realized by automation are via the increased productivity per worker, and those margins are going somewhere. Unless you subscribe to trickle down economics, there isn't enough new value being created to offset the automation margins that are leaving the community, and life just gets crappier for most people.
We have de facto decided that all of those margins belong to the owners of capital who have instigated the automation, larger scale consequences be damned.
For your view to be correct, you have to assume that 1. the efficiency gains of automation are essentially consumed by the wage provider and 2. the capital and labor that is freed up through automation isn't put to work in a way that generates greater value than that of the value "lost".
Take math as an example, the advancement of math is the ultimate example of the automation of "redundant" activities to free up capital and labor to produce things of even higher value. Take the human computers from Hidden Figures, their jobs were essential and critical, but automation (in the form of computational mathematics) rendered those jobs obsolete but in turn (bigotry aside) it freed that labor pool to do other jobs resulting in greater and greater space-based achievements (while doing it safer and safer). Nobody complains when we find a new way to do math faster/better so the engineer or mathematician can do other more important work, why should the post office be different?
My argument isn't that the concentration of wealth/power isn't a problem (I may not view it as a large of a problem as some but it is no doubt an issue) but that the concentration of wealth is an entirely different problem with a different solution than through the labor pool. I'd also argue that societal ills and their resolution should be enumerated within the capitalistic structure as value outcome of corporations not as a "confiscatory" tax policy but that's not a hill I'm gonna die on at all (a lot of companies are adopting EHS policies in recognition that publicly traded companies have an expectation of being a "good corporate citizen", etc). But bottom line, the automation of the repetitive jobs is a tale as old as time and is not the core of the problem you are actually trying to solve IMO.
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Interesting, but economics isn't science fiction. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. All jobs can be automated, outsourced, or reconfigured.
Accountants, actuaries, lawyers, doctors, teachers, architects, reale estate professionals, air trafic controllers, bankers, secretaries/administrative assistants, you name it, everything is subject to downsizing. Why pick on the postal workers? Why pick on the teachers? Oh, unions, politics, got it.
My town has 1,644 people and hasc 7 banks??? No jobs, lots of banks, go figure.
We have reached end game for the small business, service based economy. Forget pie in the sky dreams, its over. The problem is not a lack of automation, it is millions of unemployed people with no future.
Increases in productivity is not the solution. That is old "supply side" vudo economics. We need to revisit old concepts like the multiplier effect, value added tax, tax on wealth not income, inheritance taxation, infrastructure investment, etc..
"Believe me", the post office is the least of our problems.
I'm not picking on the post office, it happens to be the topic of the thread. If you want to start a thread on how actuarials should be automated I'll pop in there and agree with you.
Never said the post office was a problem, just that the post office is an example of a repetitive "human in the loop" job that was already going to face pressure to automate which has been accelerated because a previously hidden cost (pandemic) has surfaced which will raise the visible utilization cost driving it higher than the cost to automate.
Productivity is not the solution to what, concentration of wealth? We agree, but I also never made the argument that productivity was a solution for the concentration of wealth. And just because you can't see the future for the jobless doesn't mean there isn't one, you just can't see it.
And apparently you don't like competition, would you prefer there were 2 banks to 7? Consumer choice drives organizations to lower cost/price, produce new technology, invent new products, etc all of which generate jobs and generate a higher standard of living for all. Poverty now looks way different than poverty 50 years ago. Is poverty good, nope....should we do more, yes.....is productivity a part of the answer, you bet.
We are going through an industrial revolution 4.0...we can fight it or we can shape it....I'd prefer to be on the shaping it side.
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I'm not picking on the post office, it happens to be the topic of the thread. If you want to start a thread on how actuarials should be automated I'll pop in there and agree with you.
Never said the post office was a problem, just that the post office is an example of a repetitive "human in the loop" job that was already going to face pressure to automate which has been accelerated because a previously hidden cost (pandemic) has surfaced which will raise the visible utilization cost driving it higher than the cost to automate.
Productivity is not the solution to what, concentration of wealth? We agree, but I also never made the argument that productivity was a solution for the concentration of wealth. And just because you can't see the future for the jobless doesn't mean there isn't one, you just can't see it.
And apparently you don't like competition, would you prefer there were 2 banks to 7? Consumer choice drives organizations to lower cost/price, produce new technology, invent new products, etc all of which generate jobs and generate a higher standard of living for all. Poverty now looks way different than poverty 50 years ago. Is poverty good, nope....should we do more, yes.....is productivity a part of the answer, you bet.
We are going through an industrial revolution 4.0...we can fight it or we can shape it....I'd prefer to be on the shaping it side.
Agreed. But you and I aren't going to shape it. Extremely wealthy are going to shape it by how they run their corporations and how they influence the political sphere with their wealth.
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Totally on board. One ideal I hold is that with the advent of automation, there needs to be some sort of way to keep people around. UBI and a hefty tax on automated systems alongside with reduced work schedules should be something we should all strive for as a society.
Not going to disagree with the general concept, though I wouldn't tax the automation system so to speak. Generally speaking, the automation system generates more than it destroys at a high level. It certainly can have an overall negative impact at the individual level and I think we should strive to minimize that outcome but not as an extract from the automation itself.
Personal opinion time, and it's totally decoupled from the automation discussion, you want to solve a lot of problems simultaneously? I would wave a wand and enact the following policies:
-Enact a UBI which would effectively include a "stipend" for healthcare (set the UBI to some level that allows for basic living and healthcare expenses)
-Eliminate Medicare and Social Security (leave medicaid and other disability programs in place as that is "solving a different problem")
-Eliminate all other welfare programs (block grants, food programs, etc)
-Make it illegal for employers (both private and public) to directly provide healthcare insurance
-Eliminate the restriction on insurance providers competing across state lines
-Come up with a federal healthcare program that competes on the healthcare market
-Provide a healthcare digital platform for shopping for health insurance
-Tax wealth and corporations differently so as to reflect the change in the compensation model.
Eliminates several problems:
-Healthcare is no longer tied to employment
-Introduces healthcare insurance providers into a true competitive market
-Creates government efficiency by eliminating all the complexity of the welfare system
-Creates a better and more efficient safety net for all individuals
-Eliminates the gap in social security
-Allows healthcare to find it's true price point (private insurance significantly subsidizes medicare in the current system)
-Government isn't controlling healthcare but it can provide a mechanism for those to acquire for those who need it
At the end of the day, I believe this type of system is both more efficient and more effective for society as a whole.
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Agreed. But you and I aren't going to shape it. Extremely wealthy are going to shape it by how they run their corporations and how they influence the political sphere with their wealth.
Eh, ultimately that coalition falls apart simply because wealthy people fight and eventually they will overplay their hands resulting in a transformative change that returns power to the masses. I'm playing the long game so to speak, mostly because to your point, there isn't anything I can do about it now.
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Not going to disagree with the general concept, though I wouldn't tax the automation system so to speak. Generally speaking, the automation system generates more than it destroys at a high level. It certainly can have an overall negative impact at the individual level and I think we should strive to minimize that outcome but not as an extract from the automation itself.
Personal opinion time, and it's totally decoupled from the automation discussion, you want to solve a lot of problems simultaneously? I would wave a wand and enact the following policies:
-Enact a UBI which would effectively include a "stipend" for healthcare (set the UBI to some level that allows for basic living and healthcare expenses)
-Eliminate Medicare and Social Security (leave medicaid and other disability programs in place as that is "solving a different problem")
-Eliminate all other welfare programs (block grants, food programs, etc)
-Make it illegal for employers (both private and public) to directly provide healthcare insurance
-Eliminate the restriction on insurance providers competing across state lines
-Come up with a federal healthcare program that competes on the healthcare market
-Provide a healthcare digital platform for shopping for health insurance
-Tax wealth and corporations differently so as to reflect the change in the compensation model.
Eliminates several problems:
-Healthcare is no longer tied to employment
-Introduces healthcare insurance providers into a true competitive market
-Creates government efficiency by eliminating all the complexity of the welfare system
-Creates a better and more efficient safety net for all individuals
-Eliminates the gap in social security
-Allows healthcare to find it's true price point (private insurance significantly subsidizes medicare in the current system)
-Government isn't controlling healthcare but it can provide a mechanism for those to acquire for those who need it
At the end of the day, I believe this type of system is both more efficient and more effective for society as a whole.
Care to increase and broaden the EITC as well?
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Care to increase and broaden the EITC as well?
Naw, I'd probably kill it, depending on what the UBI is set to. I suppose I should have said that I view the UBI as nontaxable income
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Not going to disagree with the general concept, though I wouldn't tax the automation system so to speak. Generally speaking, the automation system generates more than it destroys at a high level. It certainly can have an overall negative impact at the individual level and I think we should strive to minimize that outcome but not as an extract from the automation itself.
Personal opinion time, and it's totally decoupled from the automation discussion, you want to solve a lot of problems simultaneously? I would wave a wand and enact the following policies:
-Enact a UBI which would effectively include a "stipend" for healthcare (set the UBI to some level that allows for basic living and healthcare expenses)
-Eliminate Medicare and Social Security (leave medicaid and other disability programs in place as that is "solving a different problem")
-Eliminate all other welfare programs (block grants, food programs, etc)
-Make it illegal for employers (both private and public) to directly provide healthcare insurance
-Eliminate the restriction on insurance providers competing across state lines
-Come up with a federal healthcare program that competes on the healthcare market
-Provide a healthcare digital platform for shopping for health insurance
-Tax wealth and corporations differently so as to reflect the change in the compensation model.
Eliminates several problems:
-Healthcare is no longer tied to employment
-Introduces healthcare insurance providers into a true competitive market
-Creates government efficiency by eliminating all the complexity of the welfare system
-Creates a better and more efficient safety net for all individuals
-Eliminates the gap in social security
-Allows healthcare to find it's true price point (private insurance significantly subsidizes medicare in the current system)
-Government isn't controlling healthcare but it can provide a mechanism for those to acquire for those who need it
At the end of the day, I believe this type of system is both more efficient and more effective for society as a whole.
I wouldn't raise a stink about this. When you running?
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03eng, as always a well reasoned and rational approach.
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Why so many banks in my town? Because there is so much wealth.
Do executives at 3M, GE, DOW, APD make too much money for adding to GDP and national wealth?
No, it's the 400 familes in the hedge fund racket. They add nothing while taking all the money.
As a kid I played MONOPLY, when someone accumulated all the wealth the game ended. Sound familiar?
Last week, "Country Club Republicans", in the New Yorker, is an excellent explanation of what has been going on.
Joseph Schumpeter saw how automation and entrepreneurship leads to socialism. It has taken 80 years, but it has arrived, with or without the politician's. Repent, the end is near, ha.
Private equity, hedge funds, derivatives, off shore tax havens, are all toast because the long term underlying power of econimic forces leads to socialism.
We can wish it weren't so, we can vote, politic, pontificate, and bloviate, but the reality is that all roads lead to socialism.
BTW, I'm all in with capitalism, it has been good to me and my wife. Nevertheless, the handwriting is on the wall and Schumpeter wrote it.
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Interesting interview of a journalist for Bloomberg who wrote a history of the USPS and his insight on the current crisis.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/05/coronavirus-postal-service-office-congress-money-trouble.html
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Except your tax dollars aren't subsidizing anything, USPS is a self-funding organization. If they did not have to fund pensions 75 years in advance, which no other organization public or private is required to do and costs them $5.5B/year, they would be turning a profit. So really, the business model isn't broken given that they can turn a profit, but has been pointed out, the are a service organization, no a for-profit business, even though they can in fact turn a profit.
That isn't to say the USPS shouldn't continue to look for improvements and efficiencies. There have been proposals to allow the post office to provide more services, which would beneficial to underserved rural communities, but business has opposed these ideas.
This has been repeated a number of times, but are you sure it is true?
2012 Government Accountability Office report, which finds, “PAEA did not require USPS to prefund 75 years of retiree health benefits over a 10-year period.”
https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/R43349.html
As for not taxfunded, there are reasoned arguments for and against that stance. USPS doesn't pay tolls, corporate tax, real estate taxes, vehicle registration fees, and other costs. Those foregone revenues are made up by taxpayers. The $10 billion debt currently owed by the USPS to the US Treasury (which will increase significantly) which means it is held by taxpayers. Remember when USPS defaulted almost 10 years ago and Congress was not going to make them do anything? That loan effectively becomes a gift, or a grant if there is no intention to pay it back.
Before someone attacks the messenger, I'm 100% supportive of the USPS and believe it is vital to this country. It comes at a cost, a high cost, which I'm willing to accept. Let's not paint the service as self sustaining or having a requirement it doesn't really have per the GAO.
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The "current crisis" is a made up issue. It changes the subject from drugs, police brutality, civil rights, income inequality, loss of the industrial base, the gig economy, corporate welfare, gun violence, health care/insurance, and serious economic issues like the World Bank, and the IMF.
The emporer has no clothes folks. So lets talk about the post office and teachers pensions.
Sometimes I regret ever going to Marquette. Sen. Joseph McCarthy still lives in the heart and soul of Wisconsin and many Marquette alumni. Sad to say that in my day Wisconsin even went for Gov. Wallace.
The so-called business models are all out the window. Travel and entertainment, sports, for profit hospitals, leveraged living, credit scores, disposable income, are gone, gone, gone.
Now back to the "debate" about the post office. Ha, meaningless, irrevelant, a side show at best.
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The "current crisis" is a made up issue. It changes the subject from drugs, police brutality, civil rights, income inequality, loss of the industrial base, the gig economy, corporate welfare, gun violence, health care/insurance, and serious economic issues like the World Bank, and the IMF.
The emporer has no clothes folks. So lets talk about the post office and teachers pensions.
Sometimes I regret ever going to Marquette. Sen. Joseph McCarthy still lives in the heart and soul of Wisconsin and many Marquette alumni. Sad to say that in my day Wisconsin even went for Gov. Wallace.
The so-called business models are all out the window. Travel and entertainment, sports, for profit hospitals, leveraged living, credit scores, disposable income, are gone, gone, gone.
Now back to the "debate" about the post office. Ha, meaningless, irrevelant, a side show at best.
WI went for Wallace?
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WI went for Wallace?
34% of WI dems voted for Wallace in 1964.
https://shepherdexpress.com/news/milwaukee-history/dixie-north-george-wallace-1964-wisconsin-presidential-primary/#/questions (https://shepherdexpress.com/news/milwaukee-history/dixie-north-george-wallace-1964-wisconsin-presidential-primary/#/questions)
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34% of WI dems voted for Wallace in 1964.
https://shepherdexpress.com/news/milwaukee-history/dixie-north-george-wallace-1964-wisconsin-presidential-primary/#/questions (https://shepherdexpress.com/news/milwaukee-history/dixie-north-george-wallace-1964-wisconsin-presidential-primary/#/questions)
Thanks, Goldwater and Wallace were very popular. That set the groundwork for Regan, the Bushies and now Trump.
The McCarthy, Wallace, Goldwater crowd are relentless, hey are Svengalies. Sad to say, Wisconsin is not normal.
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Thanks, Goldwater and Wallace were very popular. That set the groundwork for Regan, the Bushies and now Trump.
The McCarthy, Wallace, Goldwater crowd are relentless, hey are Svengalies. Sad to say, Wisconsin is not normal.
You realize that McCarthy has been dead since 1957. I dont think there is any "McCarthy crowd" left.
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You realize that McCarthy has been dead since 1957. I dont think there is any "McCarthy crowd" left.
You realize that FDR has been dead since 1945 and there are still people around with FDR loyalties? Political ideas take a very long time to die. Trickel-down economics (around since 1896 +/-) , supply side economics, Chicago school, never go away, you can't kill them, they are zombies.
American's, especially Wisconsinites, love boogymen. Communists, Catholics, Mexicans, Mormons, African Americans, Irish, all have had their day. Some still do. McCarthy is an example of a mind set that will not die, even if he did in 1957.
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You realize that FDR has been dead since 1945 and there are still people around with FDR loyalties?
No one under the age of 85.
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No one under the age of 85.
We shall see what we shall see.
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34% of WI dems voted for Wallace in 1964.
https://shepherdexpress.com/news/milwaukee-history/dixie-north-george-wallace-1964-wisconsin-presidential-primary/#/questions (https://shepherdexpress.com/news/milwaukee-history/dixie-north-george-wallace-1964-wisconsin-presidential-primary/#/questions)
Thank you for the link. Still do not understand the claim WI going for Wallace when Reynolds won 47.5% of the vote and Wallace received 34% in the Democratic primary in 1964. Shocking as it might have been at the amount of votes Wallace received the state went for Reynolds (LBJ delegate) and Byrnes (Republican).
https://www.jsonline.com/story/life/green-sheet/2016/07/12/our-back-pages-at-1964-political-conventions-wisconsin-candidates-played-a-role/87021220/
https://www.nytimes.com/1964/04/09/archives/midwest-jolted-by-wallace-vote-indianan-views-governor-as.html
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John Oliver's main subject this past Sunday was the USPS. Very well done, as usual.
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People have predicted the permanent loss of jobs from technology since the invention of the wheel. Somehow, the world always manages to produce new ones.
How many people have jobs now that didn't even exist a generation ago?
How many social media directors were there in 1985? How many web designers? How many network administrators? How many electric car battery technicians? How many solar panel installers? How many "smart home" consultants?
While I implicitly agree with you, the problems are that the new jobs do not pay nearly as well as the old ones and the change leaves spots of the country that are in near desperate economic condition.
My first job, way-back-when, after leaving Marquette was in the Quad Cities region of Illinois and Iowa. At the time I was there, it was the blue collar dream. Tractor plants were humming, suppliers couldn't keep up and everyone who could work did work at UAW-scale wages. I recall like it was yesterday asking the head of the local development authority, "what happens locally if heavy machinery goes into a slump and starts closing plants." His comment was, "it could never happen."
Just four short years later it did. As I recall, the Quads lost more than 25,000 union jobs between 1980 and 1985. It still hasn't recovered. Many of the descendants of the old IH or Deere workers are probably making half in real terms of what their forebears once did. The same holds true for Flint, MI, the NW side of Milwaukee, Toledo Ohio and a host of other manufacturing centers.
The biggest factor in closing the Quad Cities industrial capacity was automation. Nearly 60 percent of industrial job loss nationally has been because of efficiency brought about by automating processes.
It's going to happen with the Postal Service as well. People already have figured out how to get a message to another person quicker, cheaper and better than paper, a stamp and lots of human handling. Reform or die and in the process, the challenge will be what to do with the letter carriers.
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It's going to happen with the Postal Service as well. People already have figured out how to get a message to another person quicker, cheaper and better than paper, a stamp and lots of human handling. Reform or die and in the process, the challenge will be what to do with the letter carriers.
Automation and other factors already have had a huge impact on USPS. They have laid off a shyte-load of employees over the last decade.
However ...
Tens of millions of Americans, especially those in rural areas, do not have the interwebs. The mail is still their main way of communication, and it figures to be for many, many more years.
Also, there are some things that one can't get virtually. Today, millions of people receive their medications by mail. Again, that is especially true of those in rural areas.
Now, maybe there will be privatization of all of the above, including medication delivery. But the service will still be necessary.
It's a difficult problem. As is the case with most, there is a lot of nuance, a lot of gray.
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Agreed. But you and I aren't going to shape it. Extremely wealthy are going to shape it by how they run their corporations and how they influence the political sphere with their wealth.
Assumption being that the extremely wealthy can shape the march of history, the science of economics, the millions of unemployed. With large industrial corporations, large industrial unions it was possible. Now with the so-called service gig economy it is no longer possible. The small business myth has been exposed as a fraud.
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Not going to disagree with the general concept, though I wouldn't tax the automation system so to speak. Generally speaking, the automation system generates more than it destroys at a high level. It certainly can have an overall negative impact at the individual level and I think we should strive to minimize that outcome but not as an extract from the automation itself.
Personal opinion time, and it's totally decoupled from the automation discussion, you want to solve a lot of problems simultaneously? I would wave a wand and enact the following policies:
-Enact a UBI which would effectively include a "stipend" for healthcare (set the UBI to some level that allows for basic living and healthcare expenses)
-Eliminate Medicare and Social Security (leave medicaid and other disability programs in place as that is "solving a different problem")
-Eliminate all other welfare programs (block grants, food programs, etc)
-Make it illegal for employers (both private and public) to directly provide healthcare insurance
-Eliminate the restriction on insurance providers competing across state lines
-Come up with a federal healthcare program that competes on the healthcare market
-Provide a healthcare digital platform for shopping for health insurance
-Tax wealth and corporations differently so as to reflect the change in the compensation model.
Eliminates several problems:
-Healthcare is no longer tied to employment
-Introduces healthcare insurance providers into a true competitive market
-Creates government efficiency by eliminating all the complexity of the welfare system
-Creates a better and more efficient safety net for all individuals
-Eliminates the gap in social security
-Allows healthcare to find it's true price point (private insurance significantly subsidizes medicare in the current system)
-Government isn't controlling healthcare but it can provide a mechanism for those to acquire for those who need it
At the end of the day, I believe this type of system is both more efficient and more effective for society as a whole.
Sounds like an engineering approach to a social, political, economic problem. Were that the world be so neat.
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Automation and other factors already have had a huge impact on USPS. They have laid off a shyte-load of employees over the last decade.
However ...
Tens of millions of Americans, especially those in rural areas, do not have the interwebs. The mail is still their main way of communication, and it figures to be for many, many more years.
Also, there are some things that one can't get virtually. Today, millions of people receive their medications by mail. Again, that is especially true of those in rural areas.
Now, maybe there will be privatization of all of the above, including medication delivery. But the service will still be necessary.
It's a difficult problem. As is the case with most, there is a lot of nuance, a lot of gray.
When FedEx goes under who will deliver the mail? Oh, just the passenger cargo airlines will go under, hmn.
Amazon with drones will save the day, when? In 20 years? As Gen. Patton said, "timing is everything".
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Automation and other factors already have had a huge impact on USPS. They have laid off a shyte-load of employees over the last decade.
However ...
Tens of millions of Americans, especially those in rural areas, do not have the interwebs. The mail is still their main way of communication, and it figures to be for many, many more years.
Also, there are some things that one can't get virtually. Today, millions of people receive their medications by mail. Again, that is especially true of those in rural areas.
Now, maybe there will be privatization of all of the above, including medication delivery. But the service will still be necessary.
It's a difficult problem. As is the case with most, there is a lot of nuance, a lot of gray.
We can't engineer, design, ROI, our way out of mass unemployment, a pandemic, a colapse of the service economy, the end of travel and entertainment, and an inequitable distribution of wealth.
I don't care how many bars and restaurants are open, I'm not going. I'm not flying, going on a cruse, using public transportation, going to the dentist (except for an emergency), or going to weddings, funerals, mass, or bah mitzvahs.
The post office is a big RED HERRING.
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We can't engineer, design, ROI, our way out of mass unemployment, a pandemic, a colapse of the service economy, the end of travel and entertainment, and an inequitable distribution of wealth.
I don't care how many bars and restaurants are open, I'm not going. I'm not flying, going on a cruse, using public transportation, going to the dentist (except for an emergency), or going to weddings, funerals, mass, or bah mitzvahs.
The post office is a big RED HERRING.
If you are comfortable with that then do it. Everyone has to live their own life. I'm choosing to get out and live, flying, traveling, attending celebrations. We are all going to die eventually.
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If you are comfortable with that then do it. Everyone has to live their own life. I'm choosing to get out and live, flying, traveling, attending celebrations. We are all going to die eventually.
No, not really. You're behavior affects everyone in a pandemic. Not just your own.
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Not going to disagree with the general concept, though I wouldn't tax the automation system so to speak. Generally speaking, the automation system generates more than it destroys at a high level. It certainly can have an overall negative impact at the individual level and I think we should strive to minimize that outcome but not as an extract from the automation itself.
Personal opinion time, and it's totally decoupled from the automation discussion, you want to solve a lot of problems simultaneously? I would wave a wand and enact the following policies:
-Enact a UBI which would effectively include a "stipend" for healthcare (set the UBI to some level that allows for basic living and healthcare expenses)
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Has there been an example anywhere that UBI has worked? Finland came out with their results in the last few weeks and people were happier, but it didn't change the economics as people did not go looking for jobs. UBI sounds great on paper, but I have yet to see where it ever works. The money isn't there, the resentment from people working to pay the UBI for those that aren't grows. And what is basic living mean? Is it indexed? My basic living expenses in the Chicagoland area are different than those of someone living in Evansville or Syracuse. San Franciso, NYC, Los Angeles would be higher than Chicago. How is all this being paid for?
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No, not really. You're behavior affects everyone in a pandemic. Not just your own.
Which was the case before the pandemic, too. One of the mayors out west said a few days ago they will not fully unlock until a cure arrives. He didn't say vaccine or drugs to minimalize risks, but a cure. People are starting to lose it and some of these officials may have much more on their hands than a virus with less than 1% mortality rate.
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Which was the case before the pandemic, too. One of the mayors out west said a few days ago they will not fully unlock until a cure arrives. He didn't say vaccine or drugs to minimalize risks, but a cure. People are starting to lose it and some of these officials may have much more on their hands than a virus with less than 1% mortality rate.
No, it wasn't the case.
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If you are comfortable with that then do it. Everyone has to live their own life. I'm choosing to get out and live, flying, traveling, attending celebrations. We are all going to die eventually.
Hay Dad, go for it.
We are living in very different realities.
My friend, a Chinese doctor in Flushing NYC, lost 30 of 32 patients.
She has a Dr. friend who has lost over 100.
I live in N.J., I have lost three friends in Newark, N.J., all in their 50's.
During the first week of April 20% of NYPD were out sick.
I'm 77 and in good health, I'm being cautious. If I were 35 and living in Wisconsin, I'd probably think differently.
But, what has the pandemic done to the post office, Wall Street, innovation, And automation? Everything. As we say, it is a game changer.
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Which was the case before the pandemic, too. One of the mayors out west said a few days ago they will not fully unlock until a cure arrives. He didn't say vaccine or drugs to minimalize risks, but a cure. People are starting to lose it and some of these officials may have much more on their hands than a virus with less than 1% mortality rate.
1 % of what? The total population? The population of the northeast? Of people over 50 or 60 or 70? Of urban and suburban people? Of health care professionals? Come on, we are better than using a 1% number.
I have no problem with "officials". The virus will do what the virus will do. The body will do what the body will do. The consumer, the worker, the market will do what the they will do. The officials are not really that powerful or significant.
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Which was the case before the pandemic, too. One of the mayors out west said a few days ago they will not fully unlock until a cure arrives. He didn't say vaccine or drugs to minimalize risks, but a cure. People are starting to lose it and some of these officials may have much more on their hands than a virus with less than 1% mortality rate.
(A) Find the quote. 'One of the mayors out west' has as much credibility as that Canadian girl we all met over the summer when we were teenagers.
(B) I strongly suspect that even that person, if asked, will say they misspoke slightly, that they used the word 'cure' as shorthand for vaccine and effective treatment.
But, some people ::)
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(A) Find the quote.
(B) I strongly suspect that even that person, if asked, will say they misspoke slightly, that they used the word 'cure' as shorthand for vaccine and effective treatment.
But, some people ::)
There is no vaccine or cure for AIDS, SARS, EBOLA, N1H1, among other virus infectious diseases.
The reality is sinking in, maybe not in Wisconsin, but in the rest of the world.
Why am I not surprised that my belovid Wisconsin is in denial?
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There is no vaccine or cure for AIDS, SARS, EBOLA, N1H1, among other virus infectious diseases.
The reality is sinking in, maybe not in Wisconsin, but in the rest of the world.
Why am I not surprised that my belovid Wisconsin is in denial?
AIDS is not a virus.
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What is it? A syndrome?
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HIV is the virus, AIDS is the disease...but it was certainly clear what you meant.
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There is no vaccine or cure for AIDS, SARS, EBOLA, N1H1, among other virus infectious diseases.
The reality is sinking in, maybe not in Wisconsin, but in the rest of the world.
Why am I not surprised that my belovid Wisconsin is in denial?
And what reality is that? We all need hide in our homes and this is the end of travel? We will all live off the socialist dole cause “most” will have to stay in their homes indefinitely?
I’m not even sure what your overall point is other than you’ve survived a lot and lived a lot so you’re comfortable saying the world as we know it is gone and over and never coming back.
Also, your doctors must serve a very elderly and/or afflicted patient base cause losing 94% of your patients, and presumably well over half in the case of the doctor who supposedly lost 100, is bubonic plague level crap, not Corona at its most deadly. 15% is the highest recorded death rate, and that’s for those 80+ in Italy.
You’re in a critical at risk group so I wish you good health and encourage all the safe measures, but stop the Chicken Little extrapolation to anyone and everyone else.
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If you are comfortable with that then do it. Everyone has to live their own life. I'm choosing to get out and live, flying, traveling, attending celebrations. We are all going to die eventually.
Hopefully some sooner than others.
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Hopefully some sooner than others.
Is this actually rooting for somebody to die? You might want to check that; karma's a beyotch.
But yes, some will die sooner than others. Always. I doubt there will ever be an occasion in which everybody on earth dies the exact same nanosecond.
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And what reality is that? We all need hide in our homes and this is the end of travel? We will all live off the socialist dole cause “most” will have to stay in their homes indefinitely?
I’m not even sure what your overall point is other than you’ve survived a lot and lived a lot so you’re comfortable saying the world as we know it is gone and over and never coming back.
Also, your doctors must serve a very elderly and/or afflicted patient base cause losing 94% of your patients, and presumably well over half in the case of the doctor who supposedly lost 100, is bubonic plague level crap, not Corona at its most deadly. 15% is the highest recorded death rate, and that’s for those 80+ in Italy.
You’re in a critical at risk group so I wish you good health and encourage all the safe measures, but stop the Chicken Little extrapolation to anyone and everyone else.
My friends are Chinese doctors in Flushing, NYC. They have patients in nursing homes.
Yes it is that bad in Elmhurst General. "Plague level", as you say. From personal experience I know that Italy was even worse.
I live in a rural area, much different vibe. Now about flying back to Bergamo? UNITED has canceled the direct flight from Newark, UA19. They offer a flight to Frankfort, UA 960, which last night was 20% subscribed. Then a layover, then a flight to Milan, then on to Bergamo. 20 hrs., unstainable.
No lockdown involved, no government officials involved, it is just the old supply and demand economics at work. I don't need to be on the dole to fly or not to fly. I'm no Chicken Little my friend, just writing some very uncomfortable facts.
I think it unfortunate that you chose the word dole. I guess you have never been poor, good for you.
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If you are comfortable with that then do it. Everyone has to live their own life. I'm choosing to get out and live, flying, traveling, attending celebrations. We are all going to die eventually.
You and chico planning a trip together?
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You and chico planning a trip together?
JWags85 can join them, but I would wager they are not flying.
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We are all going to die eventually.
I hear Russian roulette is a ton of fun. So are alligator wrestling and skydiving without a parachute. Might as well give 'em a whirl. I mean, we're all gonna die sometime!
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I hear Russian roulette is a ton of fun. So are alligator wrestling and skydiving without a parachute. Might as well give 'em a whirl. I mean, we're all gonna die sometime!
As I see it we have a lot of risk takers. Wall Street is made for risk takers, Atlantic City was and Reno is full of risk takers. (I'll leave out the passive suicidal folks as it has gotten me into trouble around here in the past)
I would like to know the risk. That's not a lot to ask. Leave out the emotion, politics, economics, opinion, conspericy theories, bias, just give me the risk.
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Hopefully some sooner than others.
OK, if that makes you feel better.
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You and chico planning a trip together?
Not that I am aware of, but I will be on a plane next week and have no hesitation whatsoever.
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(A) Find the quote. 'One of the mayors out west' has as much credibility as that Canadian girl we all met over the summer when we were teenagers.
(B) I strongly suspect that even that person, if asked, will say they misspoke slightly, that they used the word 'cure' as shorthand for vaccine and effective treatment.
But, some people ::)
Thought it was San Francisco mayor, but it was Los Angles. Video included. Do not think he misspoke.
https://deadline.com/2020/05/los-angeles-mayor-eric-garcetti-never-be-completely-open-cure-1202934087/
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And he doesn't say what you claim he did. Learning to live with it. And as I watched and listened, I think my statement that 'cure' is shorthand for treatment and vaccine is valid.
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My friends are Chinese doctors in Flushing, NYC. They have patients in nursing homes.
Yes it is that bad in Elmhurst General. "Plague level", as you say. From personal experience I know that Italy was even worse.
I live in a rural area, much different vibe. Now about flying back to Bergamo? UNITED has canceled the direct flight from Newark, UA19. They offer a flight to Frankfort, UA 960, which last night was 20% subscribed. Then a layover, then a flight to Milan, then on to Bergamo. 20 hrs., unstainable.
No lockdown involved, no government officials involved, it is just the old supply and demand economics at work. I don't need to be on the dole to fly or not to fly. I'm no Chicken Little my friend, just writing some very uncomfortable facts.
I think it unfortunate that you chose the word dole. I guess you have never been poor, good for you.
Its funny, you and others rip on Chicos for "someone I know" counters to expert stats and figures (for good reason), yet you can turn right around and say its far worse than published mortality rates from countless countries and disease centers because you know people. Can't have it both ways. And apparently facts are only relevant if they are your own uncomfortable facts. If 10 out of every 100 people of a given demographic succumb to COVID across hundreds of thousands of cases, and thats what I'm going off of, you're not suddenly much more realistic and informed with your "uncomfortable facts" based on your vague small samples around you.
You're 40 years older than me. I know nothing of your health, but know I feature none of the comorbidities and in particular have excellent cardiovascular conditioning from the life Ive lived the last decade plus. So my view of risk and concern is different than yours. Which is fine, but apparently not to you.
And I spoke nothing of poverty. I spoke of "dole", aka government benefits given to the unemployed, which in your apparent inevitable meteoric approaching socialist reality, coupled with the Black Death all but a few like you apparently truly understand, would apply to many "non-poor" who no longer have jobs to go to cause they are not allowed or they work in travel and entertainment, which apparently no longer will exist.
JWags85 can join them, but I would wager they are not flying.
Oh good. Glad you waded into the BS tribalism of "this person doesn't happily agree with me, so I'll automatically lump them in other people I don't agree with. In a tone ripe with condescension. Don't call me "friend" in any further posts, cause my friends, of all ages, don't feel the need to lord their experience and "knowledge" over me.
And I plan on flying as soon as necessitates. Perhaps back to Wisconsin, though I may drive if my GF comes along. I'll wear a mask and sanitize often. I'm far from a hypocrite, shocking to your worldview im sure.
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And he doesn't say what you claim he did. Learning to live with it. And as I watched and listened, I think my statement that 'cure' is shorthand for treatment and vaccine is valid.
He said cure. The articles on this subject say the same thing As they quote him. Cure is not the same thing as vaccine, he says cure before that city is fully opened up.
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Good morning Wisconsin.
Love to all the shut- in's, and lefouts.
Anyone have anything nice to say this morning?
A non political, non conspiratorial, non spiteful or angry comment.
Is there any humble gratitude in the house this morning?
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The sun is shining. Got some yard work ahead of me and a pork loin to grill tonight. Probably going to stop by my favorite microbrew and pick up a six pack. While wearing a mask of course!
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The sun is shining. Got some yard work ahead of me and a pork loin to grill tonight. Probably going to stop by my favorite microbrew and pick up a six pack. While wearing a mask of course!
Sounds like a solid day.
Thank your postal worker if you see them.
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Sounds like a solid day.
Thank your postal worker if you see them.
Thank you guys/gals. Picked up my meds. at the post office, it was closing time, but the worker went to the back to fetch my meds.. They know we care and they reciprocate.
BTW, the meds. were from the V.A., another great government service.
Now for my Risotto, prepared by my wife. Lots to be grateful about.
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Today a United Parcel box truck was at my post office, what's that about? Is that socialism or capitalism? It's the new world.
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Today a United Parcel box truck was at my post office, what's that about? Is that socialism or capitalism? It's the new world.
The United States Post Office has been delivering packages for UPS, Fed Ex etc...for many years. Nothing new here.
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Today a United Parcel box truck was at my post office, what's that about? Is that socialism or capitalism? It's the new world.
UPS and fedex do the long hauling and USPS finishes the local delivery.
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"BTW, the meds. were from the V.A., another great government service."
prolly couldn't say that too loud 3 1/2 years ago...hopefully they didn't come from tomah, wi. V.A.
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The United States Post Office has been delivering packages for UPS, Fed Ex etc...for many years. Nothing new here.
hi
What's new is that now it is BIG political issue.
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hi
What's new is that now it is BIG political issue.
Your post mentioned the truck and asked what it was about and called it the new world...
Is it new that a political party used a $900 million profitable enterprise as political issue? Unions, black people, wealthy GOP private business execs.
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Your post mentioned the truck and asked what it was about and called it the new world...
Is it new that a political party used a $900 million profitable enterprise as political issue? Unions, black people, wealthy GOP private business execs.
We are led around by political operatives. Non issues are elevated for political gain. Now everything seems to be a conspiracy and everyone has a strongly held opinion without any understanding of the facts or process.
Who around here has any idea of how the office of an Inspector General works? What do they do?
I have been under investigation twice, no problem, it is how the system works. What does the General Accountability Office do? Who cares, don't bother us with the facts, we have our opinions and our political issues.
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We are led around by political operatives. Non issues are elevated for political gain. Now everything seems to be a conspiracy and everyone has a strongly held opinion without any understanding of the facts or process.
Who around here has any idea of how the office of an Inspector General works? What do they do?
I have been under investigation twice, no problem, it is how the system works. What does the General Accountability Office do? Who cares, don't bother us with the facts, we have our opinions and our political issues.
The United States Post Office had a $900 million profit before Congress passed legislation that it prefunds USPS retirement for 75 years, a requirement for no other government entity. Those are facts, not conspiracy, not opinion. The USPS is a public service and it was doing just fine before this.
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The United States Post Office had a $900 million profit before Congress passed legislation that it prefunds USPS retirement for 75 years, a requirement for no other government entity. Those are facts, not conspiracy, not opinion. The USPS is a public service and it was doing just fine before this.
ERISA does not apply to government plans. Therefore, no funding requirements.
Without funding requirements most government sponsored plans have fallen behind over time. It is not the benefits that cause the problem it is the performance of the investments and the lack of funding.
However, government plans are favorite whippingboys for right wing politicians.
These days it is hard to seperate truth and reality from propaganda, myth, and conspiracy. Enjoy the race to the bottom.
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ERISA does not apply to government plans. Therefore, no funding requirements.
Without funding requirements most government sponsored plans have fallen behind over time. It is not the benefits that cause the problem it is the performance of the investments and the lack of funding.
However, government plans are favorite whippingboys for right wing politicians.
These days it is hard to seperate truth and reality from propaganda, myth, and conspiracy. Enjoy the race to the bottom.
The USPS was up 6.1% or $1.3 billion in package shipping this past year. It has to follow high costs set by Congress. Yet it is still successful. One aspect of the 2006 Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act made it illegal for the Postal Service to price parcel delivery below its cost.
Also in the 2006 Act, it was required that the USPS establish a fund for Postal Service retiree benefits and, that it required prepayments for many decades. It paid $5 billion per year plus from 2007-2017. Before this it was pay as you go. No other Federal agency requires a similar pre-funding mandate. Private companies do not require 100% pre-funding. The Postal Service would have posted operating profits without the mandate. This takes away the USPS ability to spend money elsewhere, modernize, etc...capital investments.
ERISA is about pensions. The 2006 Act was about pre-funding many decades of retiree health benefits.
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You are correct, ERISA does not cover post retirement benefits including health.
I wonder how many rank and file workers know that.
Pay as you go makes sense for government organizations because they are assumed to be around for the long term and the government can tax.
Which brings the convetsation to national health care. It is only a matter of time, the clock is ticking.
If a corporation has a large funded healthcare program and they decide to end the program, who gets the money? The corporation, no ERISA, tough tootsie.
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Pay as you go makes sense for government organizations because they are assumed to be around for the long term and the government can tax.
That strategy is certainly working for Illinois.
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Postal Service update:
https://twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1289163999553171456?s=19
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Postal Service update:
https://twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1289163999553171456?s=19
Shocking. Trump knows vote by mail will be huge so he ruins the ability to vote by mail. More voter suppression.
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Shocking. Trump knows vote by mail will be huge so he ruins the ability to vote by mail. More voter suppression.
I wrote at the beginning of this thread that they were trying to undermine the Post Office. Took a lot of flak.
It was a fact years ago and it is still a fact. The only difference is that lawlessness doesn't matter to a certain president. In fact, he embraces it.
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I wrote at the beginning of this thread that they were trying to undermine the Post Office. Took a lot of flak.
It was a fact years ago and it is still a fact. The only difference is that lawlessness doesn't matter to a certain president. In fact, he embraces it.
some just can't help themselves anymore...covid thread let ya'll go political. now it's bleeding over to other threads and you guys make your snide comments typing with one hand and throwing the dirty bird with the other. i get a little zinger here and there, but, the minute anyone tries to challenge you guys here, the thread goes ballistic from the left, it gets shut down and the blame is on the meat boys...
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Great point, rocket. Please make the case that it isn't political. How it is actually moving the country forward. Please.
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Trump suing to ban Post Office from using drop boxes. Trying to rig election.
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The Post Office is a huge underutilized asset in this country. Tremendous real estate and has one hundred percent coverage to the consumer.
Here is my plan:
1. The congressional mandate to pre fund 75 years of post retirement benefits needs to go away. This will allow the service to hire more workers
2. With expanded works Expand Office hours and deliveries to 7 days a week.
3. Add services available at Branches by offering some basic low cost banking services. Lots of people don't have bank accounts. Post Office could become a very profitable bank very quickly.
4. Increase the last mile charge to other carriers who utilize the post office.
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Don't worry, y'all. Florida is being cleared for mail-in voting.
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The Post Office is a huge underutilized asset in this country. Tremendous real estate and has one hundred percent coverage to the consumer.
Here is my plan:
1. The congressional mandate to pre fund 75 years of post retirement benefits needs to go away. This will allow the service to hire more workers
2. With expanded works Expand Office hours and deliveries to 7 days a week.
3. Add services available at Branches by offering some basic low cost banking services. Lots of people don't have bank accounts. Post Office could become a very profitable bank very quickly.
4. Increase the last mile charge to other carriers who utilize the post office.
Actually, very reasonable. Eliminates the pay day loan business, ideally.
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My B-i-L always gets some sort of USPS money orders when he sends us $ as things like Paypal etc. are too much for him to navigate.
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The Post Office is a huge underutilized asset in this country. Tremendous real estate and has one hundred percent coverage to the consumer.
Here is my plan:
1. The congressional mandate to pre fund 75 years of post retirement benefits needs to go away. This will allow the service to hire more workers
2. With expanded works Expand Office hours and deliveries to 7 days a week.
3. Add services available at Branches by offering some basic low cost banking services. Lots of people don't have bank accounts. Post Office could become a very profitable bank very quickly.
4. Increase the last mile charge to other carriers who utilize the post office.
This is common in other countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_savings_system
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23 U.S. Postal Executives were either displaced or reassigned today:
https://twitter.com/jameshohmann/status/1291877554828259331?s=19
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You can roll your eyes, Wags, but that doesn't stop efforts to privatize USPS. Of course the single biggest reason is because they have a strong union and nothing makes these people happier than busting unions.
Times change, needs change. So as I said, the sides need to get together to come up with solutions.
https://www.csmonitor.com/1995/0207/07014.html
https://www.govexec.com/management/2018/09/dozens-senators-both-parties-push-measure-block-trumps-usps-privatization-plan/151396/
https://www.mahablog.com/2020/04/12/the-republican-plan-to-kill-the-us-postal-service/
https://ourfuture.org/20130210/you-should-be-outraged-by-what-is-being-done-to-our-post-office
https://www.workers.org/2013/08/10387/
What are your thoughts on Unions as it relates to Police Departments? You a big fan of the "blue wall?" Unions are corrupt, unnecessary, and protect the worst among the work force. No incentive to strive for excellence when things like tenure, and virtual termination-free work environment exists.
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What are your thoughts on Unions as it relates to Police Departments? You a big fan of the "blue wall?" Unions are corrupt, unnecessary, and protect the worst among the work force. No incentive to strive for excellence when things like tenure, and virtual termination-free work environment exists.
but whatabout...
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23 U.S. Postal Executives were either displaced or reassigned today:
https://twitter.com/jameshohmann/status/1291877554828259331?s=19
To destroy a country, as Putin wants, means destroying the most trusted institutions. The 2 most trusted in this country are USPS and Social Security.
They are both under attack this week.
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To destroy a country, as Putin wants, means destroying the most trusted institutions. The 2 most trusted in this country are USPS and Social Security.
They are both under attack this week.
And you think Russia is a threat to the U.S.? TF outta here with that. China is the enemy and its not even a contest.
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but whatabout...
Lightweight response when you can't debate the point...typical for the all too often, misguided, "progressive" liberal.
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What are your thoughts on Unions as it relates to Police Departments? You a big fan of the "blue wall?" Unions are corrupt, unnecessary, and protect the worst among the work force. No incentive to strive for excellence when things like tenure, and virtual termination-free work environment exists.
Like everything else in life, there are pros and cons of unions.
However, the current obstacles the USPS faces has nothing to do with unions
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Lightweight response when you can't debate the point...typical for the all too often, misguided, "progressive" liberal.
lol, buddy you've got no idea.
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And you think Russia is a threat to the U.S.? TF outta here with that. China is the enemy and its not even a contest.
China is the #1 enemy for influence in developing countries around the world.
China is the #1 enemy for technological expertise.
But, Russia is the one that gives trump his marching orders. That is the most dangerous enemy at this point in time.
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Don't worry, y'all. Florida is being cleared for mail-in voting.
Brother MU, I voted in Florida's August 18 primary by mail. If the rest of the state is anything like my county, I'm pretty confident in the integrity of the system.
Brother Trump, As to having the postal service act as a bank for low-and moderate-income persons, ARE YOU NUTS??????? Let's suppose the postal service is successful in pulling in say $25 billion nationally. Where would you propose the Postal Service place that money? What types of lending decisions, lending policies, OFAC and AML policies would you instill for the postal services. Do you really want the federal government competing with everyone from the West Bumfork Credit Union to JP Morgan Chase -- at the federal government's borrowing rate?
We have banks for low and moderate income people. They're called Credit Unions and they work reasonably well, thank you very much.
Then there's everything from ALM to CECL to Reg O and every other reg imaginable for which the postal service will have to comply. The compliance cost alone would be in the billions on start-up and the oversight is beyond anything the postal service is used to. Would you regulate the Post Office with the Comptroller of the Currency, FDIC or, possibly, the NCUA.
The post office has done a bad enough job of delivering mail and becoming relevant in the 21st century. The implications for this style of management in banking is frightening -- as in bring down the economy frightening!
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China is the #1 enemy for influence in developing countries around the world.
China is the #1 enemy for technological expertise.
But, Russia is the one that gives trump his marching orders. That is the most dangerous enemy at this point in time.
source please? if this is your opinion, drop whatever it is you are doing and seek help
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And you think Russia is a threat to the U.S.? TF outta here with that. China is the enemy and its not even a contest.
LOL, as if we can only have one adversary
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23 U.S. Postal Executives were either displaced or reassigned today:
https://twitter.com/jameshohmann/status/1291877554828259331?s=19
It is criminal what is going on with the U.S. Postal Service.
Just when we need to do everything possible to make the mail service gear up at a major time of need -- with an election only months away, during a global pandemic -- the emperor is doing everything in his power to make it likely that there will be huge problems. Then he can call it a "disaster" and "rigged."
Shameful.
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It is criminal what is going on with the U.S. Postal Service.
Just when we need to do everything possible to make the mail service gear up at a major time of need -- with an election only months away, during a global pandemic -- the emperor is doing everything in his power to make it likely that there will be huge problems. Then he can call it a "disaster" and "rigged."
Shameful.
Destroy institutions that people love if you want to create unrest.
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Destroy institutions that people love if you want to create unrest.
I don't believe the plan is that complex; the simple answer IMO is he is attempting to sabotage the mail in vote. Nothing more, nothing less.
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I was listening to an interview with the Economist podcast and a lifelong Republican campaign manager who had worked for George W. Bush and Romney campaigns said really the only way for Trump to win at this point is voter suppression, and that is what he is going to do. He mentioned sabotaging the mail in vote explicitly. This from a REPUBLICAN campaign worker.
It is insane to me how this is being done so openly and brazenly in supposedly the land of the "free." We might not even have a free and fair election this fall.
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The Post Office is a huge underutilized asset in this country. Tremendous real estate and has one hundred percent coverage to the consumer.
Here is my plan:
1. The congressional mandate to pre fund 75 years of post retirement benefits needs to go away. This will allow the service to hire more workers
2. With expanded works Expand Office hours and deliveries to 7 days a week.
3. Add services available at Branches by offering some basic low cost banking services. Lots of people don't have bank accounts. Post Office could become a very profitable bank very quickly.
4. Increase the last mile charge to other carriers who utilize the post office.
Who are you kidding?
Don't you know the plan?
Bankrupt the government and flush it down the drain.
Don't you know the pension prefund scheme is part of the plan?
No corporation does anything like that.
Furthermore, government plans are typically pay as you go from taxes.
Government plans are not covered by ERISA or insured by PBGC.
So what's the plan for the post ffice?
Privatization, along with all government services.
Schools, water, police and fire, prisons, air trafic control, transportation, you name it.
The only opportunity left for capitalism is to monitize the public sector.
Great plan, Wall Street makes money, minorities lose their jobs and the last vestages of unions get crushed.
Then the starving masses can again work in sweat shops at coolie wages, just like the good old days.
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I feel like the US government doesn't realize how many invoices are still paid by physical check via USPS in the United States. The move to slow down mail is causing payments to be delayed, which is causing a cash flow crunch for businesses. All during a severe economic downturn.
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I feel like the US government doesn't realize how many invoices are still paid by physical check via USPS in the United States. The move to slow down mail is causing payments to be delayed, which is causing a cash flow crunch for businesses. All during a severe economic downturn.
I saw a call for everyone to turn off their auto-bill-pay, and to start paying all periodic debt payments by mail by physical checks and see how long before JPM/Wells/Citi/USB/Etc. start twisting arms to get the Post Office back to running smoothly.
Will this happen? nope. Will delayed payments cause serious problems? Yep.
My boss got something in the mail a couple weeks ago that had been postmarked in March. He was fine because it was a physical CD from a weird guitarist. Gonna sting when the rent checks start getting stuck in USPS limbo.
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I saw a call for everyone to turn off their auto-bill-pay, and to start paying all periodic debt payments by mail by physical checks and see how long before JPM/Wells/Citi/USB/Etc. start twisting arms to get the Post Office back to running smoothly.
Will this happen? nope. Will delayed payments cause serious problems? Yep.
My boss got something in the mail a couple weeks ago that had been postmarked in March. He was fine because it was a physical CD from a weird guitarist. Gonna sting when the rent checks start getting stuck in USPS limbo.
Except that is the plan. Once people start complaining about slow delivery, it will give these people more ammunition to demand privatization.
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Except that is the plan. Once people start complaining about slow delivery, it will give these people more ammunition to demand privatization.
Yeah this. The best way to push privatization is to doom your public institutions to failure and then point to that failure as proof that you were right to doom them.
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To destroy a country, as Putin wants, means destroying the most trusted institutions. The 2 most trusted in this country are USPS and Social Security.
They are both under attack this week.
Add the FBI, our courts, the IRS, our medical system, higher education, hay, it's a long list.
Then blame the deep state, liberals, unions, NATO, journalist's, judge's, Generals, and you have the new world.
The Post Office is only the most obvious. Time to clean house. When people who don't believe in governing govern you have chaos.
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https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/08/12/conspiracy-steal-election-folks-alarms-sound-after-postal-worker-reports-removal
> "I grew up in a culture of service, where every piece was to be delivered every day. And his policies, although they've only been in place for a few weeks, are now affecting the way that we do business and not allowing us to deliver every piece every day, as we've done in the past," said Karol. "I don't see this as cost-saving measures. I see this as a way to undermine the public confidence in the mail service. It's not saving costs. We're spending more time trying to implement these policy changes. And it's, in our offices, costing more over time."
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https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/08/12/conspiracy-steal-election-folks-alarms-sound-after-postal-worker-reports-removal
The head of the postal union and a freelance journalist as sources? Who was the editor, Jockitch?
You should be better than this.
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The head of the postal union and a freelance journalist as sources? Who was the editor, Jockitch?
You should be better than this.
:-*
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The head of the postal union and a freelance "journalist" as sources? Who was the editor, Jockitch?
You should be better than this.
fixed fer ya ;)
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fixed fer ya ;)
Naw, that person self-identified as a journalist. Who are you to question that?
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https://twitter.com/nprpolitics/status/1293632103448489986?s=19
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fixed fer ya ;)
Thank you, "healthcare professional".
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https://twitter.com/nprpolitics/status/1293632103448489986?s=19
So does NPR talk to the union leader or the freelance journalist for their piece?
Jesus wept, you guys are pathetic.
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So does NPR talk to the union leader or the freelance journalist for their piece?
Jesus wept, you guys are pathetic.
I'm confused. If the head of the union says the machines are being removed that is easily verifiable, no? Send someone in to see if they're gone, follow up with a question to the USPS as to why they're gone, and then ask if they're being replaced.
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The quiet part out loud:
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1293896544668782592?s=19
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The quiet part out loud:
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1293896544668782592?s=19
Oh don't worry. I'm sure the sycophants will either fade away for awhile or come up with another talking point. They always do.
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He is up front about it. That must suck when the guy you are trying to defend admits to what he is accused of.
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We have a leader openly admitting to inhibiting free and fair elections in order to ensure he gets reelected.... and at least a third of the country is cheering him on while he does it.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
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He is up front about it. That must suck when the guy you are trying to defend admits to what he is accused of.
Hasn't slowed anyone down yet
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We have a leader openly admitting to inhibiting free and fair elections in order to ensure he gets reelected.... and at least a third of the country is cheering him on while he does it.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
So, if President Trump is re-elected, then the election was rigged, aina?
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So, if President Trump is re-elected, then the election was rigged, aina?
Man, that's some real nihlistic crap considering that Trump is the one, you know, actively saying all the bad things.
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So, if President Trump is re-elected, then the election was rigged, aina?
Nope. But if their are widespread issues related to mail in ballots we know why. They've never been a problem before.
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We have a leader openly admitting to inhibiting free and fair elections in order to ensure he gets reelected.... and at least a third of the country is cheering him on while he does it.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
Indeed, in normal times admitting out loud that you are attempting to rig your own election would be grounds for impeachment for abuse of power. Yet Trump is free to say these things out loud without fear of repercussion because the entire spineless GOP has been captured by Trumpism.
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So, if President Trump is re-elected, then the election was rigged, aina?
So, cheerleading the destruction of Democracy is patriot, aina?
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Nah, just want to be sure I clearly understand why Biden lost, were it to happen, hey?
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Nah, just want to be sure I clearly understand why Biden lost, were it to happen, hey?
I just want to understand how anyone could support what is going on given what the President said today. I mean, he pretty much said that he is using his power as President to limit funding to the USPS to impact mail in voting.
Are you OK with that?
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Funny how things change. It was only a couple weeks ago that people were laughing when I said trump was sabotaging the USPS.
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I just want to understand how anyone could support what is going on given what the President said today. I mean, he pretty much said that he is using his power as President to limit funding to the USPS to impact mail in voting.
Are you OK with that?
Outside of legitimate absentee voting, if a citizen doesn't care enough about the election to get off their ass and go to the polls, then maybe they don't value the freedom that comes with being able to cast a ballot. Mail-in voting serves one and only one purpose. That is to facilitate fraud, hey?
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So, if President Trump is re-elected, then the election was rigged, aina?
It's almost as if you were conditioned to come to that conclusion.
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Outside of legitimate absentee voting, if a citizen doesn't care enough about the election to get off their ass and go to the polls, then maybe they don't value the freedom that comes with being able to cast a ballot. Mail-in voting serves one and only one purpose. That is to facilitate fraud, hey?
False.
By the way if the federal government stands in the way of states executing their election it’s just a disaster. Congress should take this off the table as it would be a gigantic cluster.
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Outside of legitimate absentee voting, if a citizen doesn't care enough about the election to get off their ass and go to the polls, then maybe they don't value the freedom that comes with being able to cast a ballot. Mail-in voting serves one and only one purpose. That is to facilitate fraud, hey?
Interesting. Cite your sources to back up your claim that mail-in voting facilitates fraud.
Utah doesn't seem to have a problem with it, and they elect Republicans every single cycle.
But please, continue.
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Outside of legitimate absentee voting, if a citizen doesn't care enough about the election to get off their ass and go to the polls, then maybe they don't value the freedom that comes with being able to cast a ballot. Mail-in voting serves one and only one purpose. That is to facilitate fraud, hey?
I wish I could say that I wanted to understand how someone could look at the dashboard above the Covid thread, read about the voting infrastructure available in densely populated areas, and come to the bolded conclusion. But I do understand, I just don't like the answer.
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Outside of legitimate absentee voting, if a citizen doesn't care enough about the election to get off their ass and go to the polls, then maybe they don't value the freedom that comes with being able to cast a ballot. Mail-in voting serves one and only one purpose. That is to facilitate fraud, hey?
Nope. You've been duped....again.
https://www.nytimes.com/article/mail-in-voting-explained.html
Maybe someday you'll wake up and realize that "voter fraud" is a red herring for "voter supression."
But I doubt it.
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So, if President Trump is re-elected, then the election was rigged, aina?
Depends on your definition of "rigged." Hacking voting booths, voter fraud, sending in a dead guy's vote? Absolutely not. Intentional voter suppression targeting traditionally liberal areas and demographics? Absolutely.
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Outside of legitimate absentee voting, if a citizen doesn't care enough about the election to get off their ass and go to the polls, then maybe they don't value the freedom that comes with being able to cast a ballot. Mail-in voting serves one and only one purpose. That is to facilitate fraud, hey?
'preschiate da reeemynder ta rekwest my absenntie ballot.
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IBTL
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Outside of legitimate absentee voting, if a citizen doesn't care enough about the election to get off their ass and go to the polls, then maybe they don't value the freedom that comes with being able to cast a ballot. Mail-in voting serves one and only one purpose. That is to facilitate fraud, hey?
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/92/09/14/9209144d2091fdf35e788195ce855376.gif)
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https://www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/n7wk9z/the-post-office-is-deactivating-mail-sorting-machines-ahead-of-the-election?__twitter_impression=true
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Nope. You've been duped....again.
https://www.nytimes.com/article/mail-in-voting-explained.html
Maybe someday you'll wake up and realize that "voter fraud" is a red herring for "voter supression."
But I doubt it.
Nope, they happily live in the alternative facts world of the Bowling Green Massacre, and they like it that way. The real world is just a nuisance.
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4ever’s senile non-gibberish posts make even less sense than the senile gibberish.
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https://www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/n7wk9z/the-post-office-is-deactivating-mail-sorting-machines-ahead-of-the-election?__twitter_impression=true
Did you even read the article? It's the same quotes from the Iowa union lady. And they "anonymous sources" admit that volume is down at their facilities and that the machines might not be needed at those 15 facilities.
Alex Jones would be proud of the conspiracy.
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Larry Kudlow this morning:
“So much of the Democratic asks are really liberal left wishlists we don't want to have — voting rights — and aid to aliens, and so forth. That's not our game and the president can't accept that kind of deal."
They're not even trying to hide it, are they?
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Trump flat out told Fox that he doesn't want to fund the post office in order to prevent universal mail-in voting. Which presents a dilemma since I just assume anything he says is balderdash. Do I believe him, do I not believe him....? conflicted.
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Trump flat out told Fox that he doesn't want to fund the post office in order to prevent universal mail-in voting. Which presents a dilemma since I just assume anything he says is balderdash. Do I believe him, do I not believe him....? conflicted.
I’m not shy about saying it. trump is a traitor and a criminal. He is actively trying to subvert the election.
Traitor.
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"USPS says Pennsylvania mail ballots may not be delivered on time, and state warns of ‘overwhelming’ risk to voters"
https://www.inquirer.com/politics/election/pennsylvania-mail-voting-deadlines-post-office-lawsuit-20200813.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true
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Somehow we can guaranty packages come in time for Christmas yet we can’t deliver one piece of mail to registered voters.
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IBTL
Congratulations on continuing to feign impartiality every time the people you agree with get called out.
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“President Trump and Melania Trump requested mail-in ballots for Florida's primary election on Tuesday, registration records show. He has questioned the legitimacy of mail voting in other states, despite there being no evidence of significant voter fraud.”
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1294281563463716865
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“President Trump and Melania Trump requested mail-in ballots for Florida's primary election on Tuesday, registration records show. He has questioned the legitimacy of mail voting in other states, despite there being no evidence of significant voter fraud.”
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1294281563463716865
There is a difference in voting absentee through the mail and sending a ballot to every registered voter.
The first is fine and has been done for years. The latter would be so full of errors, mistakes and fraud, it's scary.
I vote absentee every election, but mainly because i dont want to stand in line with the plebs.
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There is a difference in voting absentee through the mail and sending a ballot to every registered voter.
The first is fine and has been done for years. The latter would be so full of errors, mistakes and fraud, it's scary.
In states where they currently mail a ballot to everyone, like Oregon for instance, fraud hasn't been a problem.
But I do think that requesting a ballot to be mailed to you, which you can then mail back, isn't much of a problem and not too high a hurdle for someone to overcome.
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Congratulations on continuing to feign impartiality every time the people you agree with get called out.
Huh?
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There is a difference in voting absentee through the mail and sending a ballot to every registered voter.
The first is fine and has been done for years. The latter would be so full of errors, mistakes and fraud, it's scary.
I vote absentee every election, but mainly because i dont want to stand in line with the plebs.
Base your opinion on data please, instead of your emotions.
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"What Really Scares Voting Experts About the Postal Service"
"It's not called the United States Postal Business. It's called the United States Postal Service."
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/08/how-postal-service-preparing-election/615271/
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Montana.
https://nbcmontana.com/news/local/dozens-of-montana-usps-drop-boxes-removed?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma
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There is a difference in voting absentee through the mail and sending a ballot to every registered voter.
The first is fine and has been done for years. The latter would be so full of errors, mistakes and fraud, it's scary.
I vote absentee every election, but mainly because i dont want to stand in line with the plebs.
I'm fine with requiring voters who want to vote via mail to request a ballot. It should just be as easy as securely possible to do so.
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I did a mail in ballot in April.
There is zero chance I will do that in November. I'll mask up and vote in person.
Do. Not. Mail. Your. Ballot.
Every municipality has some form of drop box. Take it there personally.
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Base your opinion on data please, instead of your emotions.
You're new here, ain't ya?
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I did a mail in ballot in April.
There is zero chance I will do that in November. I'll mask up and vote in person.
Do. Not. Mail. Your. Ballot.
Every municipality has some form of drop box. Take it there personally.
That is where I am. I will take my mail in ballot and drop it off at the clerk's office a week before the election.
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Montana.
https://nbcmontana.com/news/local/dozens-of-montana-usps-drop-boxes-removed?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma
To be fair, one would be hard-pressed to legitimately claim this was part of some sort of Republican or Trump conspiracy to rig the election.
Montana is a red state. They would want more, not fewer, people to vote there.
It's only 3 electoral votes. If you were going to get rid of drop boxes in order to sway the election, you would probably pick somewhere more densely populated.
Most people can mail a letter by putting in their own mailbox and putting the flag up. At worst, they can go to their own post office. If they can find a way to mail their bill payments, they can find a way to vote.
Lastly, could it actually be possible that the claim that these boxes were rarely used is actually true? People like to bitch about how inefficient government operations are, but the minute that no-brainer cost-cutting measures might inconvenience them, they are the first to complain.
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To be fair, one would be hard-pressed to legitimately claim this was part of some sort of Republican or Trump conspiracy to rig the election.
Montana is a red state. They would want more, not fewer, people to vote there.
It's only 3 electoral votes. If you were going to get rid of drop boxes in order to sway the election, you would probably pick somewhere more densely populated.
Most people can mail a letter by putting in their own mailbox and putting the flag up. At worst, they can go to their own post office. If they can find a way to mail their bill payments, they can find a way to vote.
Lastly, could it actually be possible that the claim that these boxes were rarely used is actually true? People like to bitch about how inefficient government operations are, but the minute that no-brainer cost-cutting measures might inconvenience them, they are the first to complain.
Very, very competitive senate election there this year that could end up very well deciding the majority in the Senate.
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Huh?
that's what she said?
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Very, very competitive senate election there this year that could end up very well deciding the majority in the Senate.
This^. The Senate race is a dead heat atm, and Republics believe mail-in voting favors Democrats, though I have seem analysis that says there is no advantage, typically, for one side or the other. This year, with COVID, that might not be true.
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Disappointed that so many Americans think it's a good idea that the president of the United States has declared war on the U.S. Postal Service for the express purpose of affecting the upcoming election.
One would think that every American would be sickened by this.
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Disappointed that so many Americans think it's a good idea that the president of the United States has declared war on the U.S. Postal Service for the express purpose of affecting the upcoming election.
One would think that every American would be sickened by this.
His actual *stated* purpose.
Republicans have never been bigger sell outs.
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Why is the goal to privatize the USPS?
Do we try to privatize fire departments? Police departments? The military?
It's a federal entity that provides a service to citizens at a hell of a price.
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Disappointed that so many Americans think it's a good idea that the president of the United States has declared war on the U.S. Postal Service for the express purpose of affecting the upcoming election.
One would think that every American would be sickened by this.
No more so than the thought of voting early and often. Or, no more so than the thought of Uncle Joe driving the bus.
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Disappointed that so many Americans think it's a good idea that the president of the United States has declared war on the U.S. Postal Service for the express purpose of affecting the upcoming election.
One would think that every American would be sickened by this.
Every real American is.
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His actual *stated* purpose.
Republicans have never been bigger sell outs.
No. No. No.
If someone is actively working to "fix" a presidential election, they are a traitor.
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No more so than the thought of voting early and often. Or, no more so than the thought of Uncle Joe driving the bus.
Give it a rest smart boy.
Biden was filmed riding a bike just like anyone else. trump was filmed walking down a ramp like a demented old man.
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To be fair, one would be hard-pressed to legitimately claim this was part of some sort of Republican or Trump conspiracy to rig the election.
Montana is a red state. They would want more, not fewer, people to vote there.
It's only 3 electoral votes. If you were going to get rid of drop boxes in order to sway the election, you would probably pick somewhere more densely populated.
Most people can mail a letter by putting in their own mailbox and putting the flag up. At worst, they can go to their own post office. If they can find a way to mail their bill payments, they can find a way to vote.
Lastly, could it actually be possible that the claim that these boxes were rarely used is actually true? People like to bitch about how inefficient government operations are, but the minute that no-brainer cost-cutting measures might inconvenience them, they are the first to complain.
To be fair, my post said the word Montana and included a link. In the USPS thread, I post anything relevant to the USPS as well as voting by mail. To be fair, I like what is fair for everyone.
I wouldn’t call Trump and some Republicans intentions a conspiracy, as, that implies some sort of secrecy. There hasn’t been anything secret about it. We can agree on that, yes?
I would hope we can also agree that one of the biggest goals of any election is to maximize the amount of voters, and, to make voting as safe, easy as possible. We can agree on this, yes? People can choose however they want to vote. I am for all of the people of Montana and every other state having every opportunity to vote by mail as well as having their other USPS services, yes.
We can agree that the USPS is a service and not a business. Yes?
We can agree taking 671 mail processing machines (514 million pieces mail every day) out of service a couple of months before an election isn’t a good idea. Yes?
Asking boards of elections to mail out ballots with first class rates rather than 20 cent marketing mail rates. We can agree this is a bad idea just before an election. Yes?
You would agree that we are in a Pandemic. Yes? And you would agree many people would feel much safer voting by mail. Yes?
You would agree that Veterans need to receive their medications in a timely manner. Yes?
It’s always interesting to me, the people who whine and complain about USPS and economic efficiency. These same people often times seem to be the same people who never seem to acknowledge how well it was running before being required to pre-fund retirement benefits for 75 years. (The House of Reps votes to end these pre-payments that no other public or private entity has to make. But the Senate has yet to do so.)
These same people don’t seem to care about billions of dollars of stimulus to wealthy corporations, or trillion dollar deficits, millions in personal gain grift, or wasted spending in other areas. Crickets there. Interesting how that works.
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You would agree that Veterans need to receive their medications in a timely manner. Yes?
General Honore speaks about this.
https://crooksandliars.com/2020/08/former-army-commander-calls-citizens-march
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No. No. No.
If someone is actively working to "fix" a presidential election, they are a traitor.
so, you are saying we should levy the death penalty upon our potus?
gotta past your bedtime...sheesh!
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No more so than the thought of voting early and often. Or, no more so than the thought of Uncle Joe driving the bus.
Are Muslims allowed to vote in your version of America? Or are you just gonna post Islamophobic chain emails on public message boards and never respond, aina?
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There is a difference in voting absentee through the mail and sending a ballot to every registered voter.
The first is fine and has been done for years. The latter would be so full of errors, mistakes and fraud, it's scary.
I vote absentee every election, but mainly because i dont want to stand in line with the plebs.
1) This is incorrect.
2) In Federal Court last month Trump's lawyers acknowledged the terms are used interchangeably.
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Yet another thread gone off the political rails. Why not just have a political board and be done with it?
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usps now says it cannot guarantee mail-in ballots to arrive on time
it is being reported by multiple sources-i was afraid to site any one source in particular so as not to offend any one and/or not to mislead via a bias
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usps now says it cannot guarantee mail-in ballots to arrive on time
Which has never been a problem til this year.
Wonder why?
Oh I know....
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/13/donald-trump-usps-post-office-election-funding
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Yet another thread gone off the political rails. Why not just have a political board and be done with it?
Because now everything is political. Even my zipcode, car, doctor, sport, and reading habits, are political. I understand your frustration of not wanting to hear that everything is political. Might be time to look in the mirror.
There was a time when motorcycles, guns, medical procedures, and beans were not political, but not now.
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Yet another thread gone off the political rails. Why not just have a political board and be done with it?
I agree. And I should probably lock this one already.
Though I find this one intriguing. The USPS is a flawed organization to be sure. It needs fixed. But the current rhetoric is troubling. I'm happy to hear that the USPS officials still think they can handle ballot volumes.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/13/donald-trump-usps-post-office-election-funding
USPS officials have not said they need additional funding to deliver mail-in ballots this fall. “The Postal Service has ample capacity to deliver all election mail securely and on-time in accordance with our delivery standards, and we will do so,” DeJoy said at a meeting of the USPS board of governors on Friday.
I'll allow it for now...
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A lot of people have moved to online/mail fulfillment of prescriptions. Even if genuine efficiency focus, this doesn’t seem like a good time to move fast and break things.
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Because now everything is political. Even my zipcode, car, doctor, sport, and reading habits, are political. I understand your frustration of not wanting to hear that everything is political. Might be time to look in the mirror.
There was a time when motorcycles, guns, medical procedures, and beans were not political, but not now.
The top of this board says political free zone. Pinned for everyone to see. It does not say everything is political and therefore ok.
Our numbers up to 26 now. It will only make a small dent here and we are sad to leave. Could be up on Discord in minutes, but want to do it right and using server software based solution. The moderators work hard here, but they don’t enforce what they stated this board’s rules are despite continuous requests. It has become unreadable. We wish them well, people have a choice.
Thank you to those that sent DMs to be moderators on an alternative site. We will be up soon enough. We do not seek to replace this site as there are many good things about Scoop, but unfortunately too many have ruined it and those in charge do not want to stop it apparently because they agree with commentary. We will offer an alternative without the political mud slinging by posters that ruin thread after thread.
Either open up a political board or don’t allow it which is what your stated position is. Right now they are doing neither and toxicity continues unabated.
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The top of this board says political free zone. Pinned for everyone to see. It does not say everything is political and therefore ok.
Our numbers up to 26 now. It will only make a small dent here and we are sad to leave. Could be up on Discord in minutes, but want to do it right and using server software based solution. The moderators work hard here, but they don’t enforce what they stated this board’s rules are despite continuous requests. It has become unreadable. We wish them well, people have a choice.
Thank you to those that sent DMs to be moderators on an alternative site. We will be up soon enough. We do not seek to replace this site as there are many good things about Scoop, but unfortunately too many have ruined it and those in charge do not want to stop it apparently because they agree with commentary. We will offer an alternative without the political mud slinging by posters that ruin thread after thread.
Either open up a political board or don’t allow it which is what your stated position is. Right now they are doing neither and toxicity continues unabated.
The Parler of MU message boards.
👋🏼 👋🏼 👋🏼
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The top of this board says political free zone. Pinned for everyone to see. It does not say everything is political and therefore ok.
Our numbers up to 26 now. It will only make a small dent here and we are sad to leave. Could be up on Discord in minutes, but want to do it right and using server software based solution. The moderators work hard here, but they don’t enforce what they stated this board’s rules are despite continuous requests. It has become unreadable. We wish them well, people have a choice.
Thank you to those that sent DMs to be moderators on an alternative site. We will be up soon enough. We do not seek to replace this site as there are many good things about Scoop, but unfortunately too many have ruined it and those in charge do not want to stop it apparently because they agree with commentary. We will offer an alternative without the political mud slinging by posters that ruin thread after thread.
Either open up a political board or don’t allow it which is what your stated position is. Right now they are doing neither and toxicity continues unabated.
Unintentional comedy GOLD.
If you wanted to open up an MU forum, you could do that in 10 minutes and not attempt to grand stand here.
Take your ball and go home, no one here will miss you.
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Saving small businesses. "The USPS makes more deliveries in 16 days than UPS and FedEx combined ship in a year."
https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/24/if-we-let-the-us-postal-service-die-well-be-killing-small-businesses-with-it/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
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Uh-oh, guys. I think he really means it this time.
What do?
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Why don’t you guys just all go over to IWB’s free board? There’s no traffic and you could be posting by this afternoon.
I mean if you were actually serious about leaving...
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V1 - Hey, we replied the last time you brought this up and changed our policies with you in mind.
In case you missed it:
We're going to enact two policy changes:
- MUScoop will no longer force you to read all threads, so you can individually choose what topics interest you personally, and not click those you might find political. This is a new concept on the internet, so it might take some practice.
(If you accidentally click on a thread that does not interest you, fear not, there is a little "x" button on your browser tab that will close the window for you -- and we've made that a complimentary feature.)
- We are now making the "ignore user" function part of the basic subscription package.
In all seriousness, we do our best. COVID and the recent civil unrest has made us let more political speech go unchecked -- that being said, we've also handed out several vacations to the most reported authors.
TL;DR: Life is suffering. Eat Arby's.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_vvex_mfik
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Disappointed that so many Americans think it's a good idea that the president of the United States has declared war on the U.S. Postal Service for the express purpose of affecting the upcoming election.
One would think that every American would be sickened by this.
Why be suprised or sickened? It has been going on for a long time. Whenever a minority wants to control a majority and call it democracy certain tools have to be employed.
The rationalization is that it is the only way to win.
The post office is just the latest, how about the courts, gerrymandering, disinformation, or alt-facts. Americans like being lied to as in Professional Wrestling, talk radio, and reality t.v..
Yes, Americans are as ignorant, neive, and gullible as they seem. Believe me!
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"You don't like a particular policy or a particular president? Then argue for your position. Go out there and win an election. Push to change it. But don't break it. Don't break what our predecessors spent over two centuries building. That's not being faithful to what this country's about."
or
just use your pen and your phone, eyn'a?
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Thanks rocket, for giving me the chance to bring this back to the USPS.
Don't break what our predecessors spent over two centuries building. That's not being faithful to what this country's about
Lets be faithful and not break things...like things Founding Father Ben Franklin helped create!
"The USPS traces its roots to 1775 during the Second Continental Congress, when Benjamin Franklin was appointed the first postmaster general. The Post Office Department was created in 1792 with the passage of the Postal Service Act. It was elevated to a cabinet-level department in 1872"
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Thanks rocket, for giving me the chance to bring this back to the USPS.
Lets be faithful and not break things...like things Founding Father Ben Franklin helped create!
"The USPS traces its roots to 1775 during the Second Continental Congress, when Benjamin Franklin was appointed the first postmaster general. The Post Office Department was created in 1792 with the passage of the Postal Service Act. It was elevated to a cabinet-level department in 1872"
The USPS is a great big opportunity for Wall Street.
Amazon, FedEx, off load expensive deliveries at discount prices to the USPS.
Then comes the big payoff, shut it down, charge more for rural delivery, sell stock on Wall Street and life goes on.
However, now we have a trifecta, do it during a pandemic and an election cycle.
Better do it now because "we" may lose the election and our window of opportunity will close.
As "we" say, never let a national emergency go to waste.
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Thanks rocket, for giving me the chance to bring this back to the USPS.
Lets be faithful and not break things...like things Founding Father Ben Franklin helped create!
"The USPS traces its roots to 1775 during the Second Continental Congress, when Benjamin Franklin was appointed the first postmaster general. The Post Office Department was created in 1792 with the passage of the Postal Service Act. It was elevated to a cabinet-level department in 1872"
Thank you, Mr. Gailey!
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No more so than the thought of voting early and often. Or, no more so than the thought of Uncle Joe driving the bus.
This has nothing to do with your emperor admitting that he is sabotaging the USPS to help his own re-election chances. It's not even a very good attempt at goalpost-shifting. You musta been heavily into the nitrous, Doc.
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Nm
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The postal service shenanigans are as old as government itself. The M/O: Go to the legislative and executive branch, hold something of vital importance (i.e., mail in ballots) hostage unless you get the funding you want.
The Postal Service is doing to Congress what school districts in Illinois have done for years: "Give us more tax dollars or we'll defund football. Or we won't be able to teach English and History. Or..."
The postal service is the same way. It's one of the most incredibly inefficient organizations in America. It's payroll is padded and its operation is horse and buggy in a fan jet era.
Time for Congress to call their bluff, as the President did, and tell them, "do your job and quit your complaining!"
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The postal service shenanigans are as old as government itself. The M/O: Go to the legislative and executive branch, hold something of vital importance (i.e., mail in ballots) hostage unless you get the funding you want.
The Postal Service is doing to Congress what school districts in Illinois have done for years: "Give us more tax dollars or we'll defund football. Or we won't be able to teach English and History. Or..."
The postal service is the same way. It's one of the most incredibly inefficient organizations in America. It's payroll is padded and its operation is horse and buggy in a fan jet era.
Time for Congress to call their bluff, as the President did, and tell them, "do your job and quit your complaining!"
I guess you are just going to ignore the President's stated motivations hey?
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The postal service shenanigans are as old as government itself. The M/O: Go to the legislative and executive branch, hold something of vital importance (i.e., mail in ballots) hostage unless you get the funding you want.
The Postal Service is doing to Congress what school districts in Illinois have done for years: "Give us more tax dollars or we'll defund football. Or we won't be able to teach English and History. Or..."
The postal service is the same way. It's one of the most incredibly inefficient organizations in America. It's payroll is padded and its operation is horse and buggy in a fan jet era.
Time for Congress to call their bluff, as the President did, and tell them, "do your job and quit your complaining!"
Many people want what is fair.
You (and some others) repeat the same thing every few weeks or months. Yet you and those others never seem to add the "Why" it is inefficient in your comments. And you never seem to point out the very quick and easy things that would make it better. Here I'll help you.
The United States House passed legislation that would stop forcing the USPS from pre-funding retirement benefits for USPS for 75 years. (That mandate began after 2006 when of course the public service not a business had healthy profits) Would you believe it's still sitting in the United States Senate collecting dust?
Would you believe that the reason your stamps and other costs are so inexpensive after all these years is because it is still mandated how much the USPS can charge/raise prices?
I must have missed your posts and others' posts when wealthy corporations and individuals recently received hundreds of billions of dollars. I must have missed your and others' posts about the almost trillion dollar military/defense budget. (Wouldn't you want those thank you for your service veterans to receive their medications?) What's that the Defense Department has lost trillions of dollars and Veterans can't get their meds too?
Are you aware the USPS is the most popular bipartisan government organization? Good luck with going after that.
Why isn't your first thought just before an election: Let's make sure during a pandemic that every single person votes that can and wants to vote. ?
Why isn't your next thought appreciation of the service (not a business) that the USPS provides, and your third thought acknowledgement of how well it was doing prior to being forced by a lame duck congress in 2006 to provide funding that no other public or private entity has ever had to do before? Or its 50% minority employment?
Interesting how this works.
In 1864, 150,000 Union soldiers voted by mail.
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Anyone who has convinced themselves mail voting (done for centuries) is now going to lead to voter fraud: remember when Trump lost the popular vote in 2016 by millions, so he concocted an explanation that there was voter fraud? And then he created a commission to investigate — yes, that really happened — but they could find no evidence whatsoever and had to disband? https://apnews.com/f5f6a73b2af546ee97816bb35e82c18d/Report:-Trump-commission-did-not-find-widespread-voter-fraud
Yet here again, Trump is faced with the very real prospect he’s going to lose, so he can only trot out the same “fraud” line that was proven false. And worse, while in a position of power, he’s using it as pretext to deny people their ability to vote by constructing barriers around the voting process (sound familiar?). That’s what withholding funding to USPS is about, but don’t take my word for it, take his — “They need that money in order to have the post office work so it can take all of these millions and millions of ballots.”
So you can perform mental gymnastics to convince yourself that the fraud claim is true, but it isn’t. It’s as fictitious as the last time Trump tried this.
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To some defenders, the “fraud” is allowing brown people to vote.
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Many people want what is fair.
You (and some others) repeat the same thing every few weeks or months. Yet you and those others never seem to add the "Why" it is inefficient in your comments. And you never seem to point out the very quick and easy things that would make it better. Here I'll help you.
The United States House passed legislation that would stop forcing the USPS from pre-funding retirement benefits for USPS for 75 years. (That mandate began after 2006 when of course the public service not a business had healthy profits) Would you believe it's still sitting in the United States Senate collecting dust?
Would you believe that the reason your stamps and other costs are so inexpensive after all these years is because it is still mandated how much the USPS can charge/raise prices?
I must have missed your posts and others' posts when wealthy corporations and individuals recently received hundreds of billions of dollars. I must have missed your and others' posts about the almost trillion dollar military/defense budget. (Wouldn't you want those thank you for your service veterans to receive their medications?) What's that the Defense Department has lost trillions of dollars and Veterans can't get their meds too?
Are you aware the USPS is the most popular bipartisan government organization? Good luck with going after that.
Why isn't your first thought just before an election: Let's make sure during a pandemic that every single person votes that can and wants to vote. ?
Why isn't your next thought appreciation of the service (not a business) that the USPS provides, and your third thought acknowledgement of how well it was doing prior to being forced by a lame duck congress in 2006 to provide funding that no other public or private entity has ever had to do before? Or its 50% minority employment?
Interesting how this works.
In 1864, 150,000 Union soldiers voted by mail.
Stop with the hisory, Trump said the pandemic of 1918 ended World War II. We are living in a new world of altered reality.
No use tryig to win a useless argument with an ideologue. These people know everything you said is true, they don't care. They will do whatever it takes to further their ideology.
Don't waste your breath, they don't care. Yes, there are some people who just don't know the truth, but the folks around here know the truth, but they don't care. They have an agenda, did I say, they don't care?
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Anyone who has convinced themselves mail voting (done for centuries) is now going to lead to voter fraud: remember when Trump lost the popular vote in 2016 by millions, so he concocted an explanation that there was voter fraud? And then he created a commission to investigate — yes, that really happened — but they could find no evidence whatsoever and had to disband? https://apnews.com/f5f6a73b2af546ee97816bb35e82c18d/Report:-Trump-commission-did-not-find-widespread-voter-fraud
Yet here again, Trump is faced with the very real prospect he’s going to lose, so he can only trot out the same “fraud” line that was proven false. And worse, while in a position of power, he’s using it as pretext to deny people their ability to vote by constructing barriers around the voting process (sound familiar?). That’s what withholding funding to USPS is about, but don’t take my word for it, take his — “They need that money in order to have the post office work so it can take all of these millions and millions of ballots.”
So you can perform mental gymnastics to convince yourself that the fraud claim is true, but it isn’t. It’s as fictitious as the last time Trump tried this.
They know that, they don't care.
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The postal service shenanigans are as old as government itself. The M/O: Go to the legislative and executive branch, hold something of vital importance (i.e., mail in ballots) hostage unless you get the funding you want.
The Postal Service is doing to Congress what school districts in Illinois have done for years: "Give us more tax dollars or we'll defund football. Or we won't be able to teach English and History. Or..."
The postal service is the same way. It's one of the most incredibly inefficient organizations in America. It's payroll is padded and its operation is horse and buggy in a fan jet era.
Time for Congress to call their bluff, as the President did, and tell them, "do your job and quit your complaining!"
Party line ideology, in other words, you don't care. Don't bother with the rationalizations and propaganda, just be honest and say, hay man, I don't care.
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To some defenders, the “fraud” is allowing brown people to vote.
Things have gotten pretty bad when you and others are stealing my mantle of being the “far lefty” here on Scoop. ;)
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The postal service shenanigans are as old as government itself. The M/O: Go to the legislative and executive branch, hold something of vital importance (i.e., mail in ballots) hostage unless you get the funding you want.
The Postal Service is doing to Congress what school districts in Illinois have done for years: "Give us more tax dollars or we'll defund football. Or we won't be able to teach English and History. Or..."
The postal service is the same way. It's one of the most incredibly inefficient organizations in America. It's payroll is padded and its operation is horse and buggy in a fan jet era.
Time for Congress to call their bluff, as the President did, and tell them, "do your job and quit your complaining!"
The postal service can certainly get more efficient while providing the same level of service. It’s been true for decades and is true in any org.
Why choose the middle of a pandemic when people are relying more on their service (essentials & prescriptions) and governments as well with ballot delivery? Why is now time to call ‘their’ bluff?
Edit: seems like a really dumb labor relations strategy if you are trying to reform that side of the equation.
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Party line ideology, in other words, you don't care. Don't bother with the rationalizations and propaganda, just be honest and say, hay man, I don't care.
To clear the record:
1) I voted by mail in Florida for our primary. It is Tuesday. I voted over a month ago to be sure my ballot arrived on time. It did because I can monitor it on the county supervisor of elections website. If you are going to vote by mail, the system works. You just have to mail your ballot in early enough to ensure counting.
2) It is not partisan, by a long shot. In fact, I doubt you have any idea who I voted for President over my life. You would be surprised.
3) I am in favor of overhauling government procurement, regardless of agency. Yeah, I am just as aggravated by defense procurement that goes billions over budget as I am at the postal service. I would like to see pay to troops raised significantly and post-service health care improved, as our soldiers, sailors and airmen are doing the toughest job in this country. If it comes at the cost of multi-billion dollar defense systems, so be it. I used to work as a Director of Financial Analysis for Amtrak and I have come to the belief that Amtrak should be gassed and replaced, where necessary. Amtrak is like the Postal Service, a Government Sponsored Enterprise or GSE (which also includes Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, both of which also should be privatized and the government should be out of mortgage lending), that has a economic objective for a political mission. It does not work. You are either one or the other.
4) Before you start regulating what you call corporate greed, are you prepared to regulate how much you can earn in your 401(k) or pension, if you have one? Millions of Americans benefit from corporate profits through 401(k)s, IRAs, Pensions and direct market investment. If you have a pension, the money to support your retirement payments for the rest of your life has to come from somewhere. Your 401(k) and whatever you get in Social Security has to carry you to your death. Higher corporate profits means a better retirement.
To go back to the Postal Service, nobody at a GSE gets compensated for taking risk that will alienate politicians. You lay off 100 postal workers somewhere as part of an efficiency or out-sourcing program and I promise you will never hear the end of it. Unless Congress tells the Postal Service NO and orders them to be efficient and improve operations (including outsourcing), they wont. They will be back playing on fears of vote suppression to gain more appropriations.
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3) I am in favor of overhauling government procurement, regardless of agency. Yeah, I am just as aggravated by defense procurement that goes billions over budget as I am at the postal service. I would like to see pay to troops raised significantly and post-service health care improved, as our soldiers, sailors and airmen are doing the toughest job in this country. If it comes at the cost of multi-billion dollar defense systems, so be it. I used to work as a Director of Financial Analysis for Amtrak and I have come to the belief that Amtrak should be gassed and replaced, where necessary. Amtrak is like the Postal Service, a Government Sponsored Enterprise or GSE (which also includes Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, both of which also should be privatized and the government should be out of mortgage lending), that has a economic objective for a political mission. It does not work. You are either one or the other.
First off, comparing USPS to the military is comparing apples to orangutans. One is a "service"; the other is a necessity.
Second, referring to your earlier post that USPS should be run as a profitable business is nonsense. Do you expect the military (which you used as a comparison) to be run as a business?
USPS could be run as a profitable business only if we no longer run it as a national service. We would have to eliminate rural delivery. Hence, it would no longer be a national service. USPS has been a staple of the USA basically as long as we have been a country. By its nature, it is not going to be profitable.
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The amount of time people are willing to spend arguing on the internet with a completely insincere person astounds me.
Just let it die. The issue isn't that they simply need to be schooled up by you. A 2,000 word essay doesn't change the fact that they already know & choose to play a game on the internet or elsewhere.
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First off, comparing USPS to the military is comparing apples to orangutans. One is a "service"; the other is a necessity.
Second, referring to your earlier post that USPS should be run as a profitable business is nonsense. Do you expect the military (which you used as a comparison) to be run as a business?
USPS could be run as a profitable business only if we no longer run it as a national service. We would have to eliminate rural delivery. Hence, it would no longer be a national service. USPS has been a staple of the USA basically as long as we have been a country. By its nature, it is not going to be profitable.
Brother Jockey, you missed the point. First, I believe the USPS should be run efficiently. I know better than anyone that an entity with a political mission cannot run with a GAAP-based profit. It is just not possible.
What I did say and, again, for the record, is I think the request for more appropriations is an election year ploy in which postal unions are trying to hold a national election hostage. To be clear, I do not think the USPS needs it and should operate efficiently. It is not political. It is a belief that they simply do not need it.
Finally, on the military, I was responding to an assertation that I was singling out the postal service over other wasteful elements of government. The commentor suggested I was myopic when it came to the USPS. I hate waste of tax dollars, no matter where it is. That is not partisan!
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Brother Jockey, you missed the point. First, I believe the USPS should be run efficiently. I know better than anyone that an entity with a political mission cannot run with a GAAP-based profit. It is just not possible.
What I did say and, again, for the record, is I think the request for more appropriations is an election year ploy in which postal unions are trying to hold a national election hostage. To be clear, I do not think the USPS needs it and should operate efficiently. It is not political. It is a belief that they simply do not need it.
Finally, on the military, I was responding to an assertation that I was singling out the postal service over other wasteful elements of government. The commentor suggested I was myopic when it came to the USPS. I hate waste of tax dollars, no matter where it is. That is not partisan!
How many times are you going to post in this thread without acknowledgement of some of the reasons beyond its control that challenge USPS efficiency in the first place? It is extremely disingenuous to repeatedly say that something is inefficient without considering some of the highly unusual, if not ridiculous reasons why.
For many, there is a current sense of urgency to help the USPS maximize voter quantity regardless of voting preference. For many there is a current sense of urgency that veterans don’t have to keep waiting weeks or longer for their meds. For many there is a sense of urgency to help small businesses. I can’t find the posts and threads about all of the other current and recent wastes of tax dollars.
It is what it is, an administrative self serving gaslighting distraction to the muddy the waters, and now you are seeing not bipartisan pushback. None of it is surprising.
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What I did say and, again, for the record, is I think the request for more appropriations is an election year ploy in which postal unions are trying to hold a national election hostage.
So despite the order of a Trump appointee to slow service and remove/take offline machines, and despite the president saying his motive for not funding the USPS is to deter mail-in voting ... you believe this is really all just a ploy by the union?
Huh.
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Brother Jockey, you missed the point. First, I believe the USPS should be run efficiently. I know better than anyone that an entity with a political mission cannot run with a GAAP-based profit. It is just not possible.
What I did say and, again, for the record, is I think the request for more appropriations is an election year ploy in which postal unions are trying to hold a national election hostage. To be clear, I do not think the USPS needs it and should operate efficiently. It is not political. It is a belief that they simply do not need it.
Finally, on the military, I was responding to an assertation that I was singling out the postal service over other wasteful elements of government. The commentor suggested I was myopic when it came to the USPS. I hate waste of tax dollars, no matter where it is. That is not partisan!
So you believe this all started with the USPS asking for more money?
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The president of the United States came right out and said he wants to starve the USPS specifically to hurt the process of mail-in voting during the middle of a global pandemic that has millions of Americans afraid to go to the polls. It is a calculated, cruel attempt to steal the election - one polls suggest he will lose handily - and he admits it.
There is nothing else necessary to analyze. Even if one believes that the USPS is horribly inefficient and needs to be changed/updated/gutted/whatever, you enact those changes after an election that is about to take place during a global pandemic.
It's like trying to take away health care that covers pre-existing conditions from millions of Americans during a global pandemic -- an unnecessary, cruel, self-serving, evil act that the president also is trying to do.
I know there are policy issues pushed by this president that can be defended -- his obsessive support of the 2nd Amendment, his anti-abortion rhetoric, his trade wars, etc. I happen to disagree with some of those, but I understand why others defend them.
I don't see how any American can defend gutting the U.S. Postal Service just months before this most unique election in our nation's history.
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The president of the United States came right out and said he wants to starve the USPS specifically to hurt the process of mail-in voting during the middle of a global pandemic that has millions of Americans afraid to go to the polls. It is a calculated, cruel attempt to steal the election - one polls suggest he will lose handily - and he admits it.
There is nothing else necessary to analyze. Even if one believes that the USPS is horribly inefficient and needs to be changed/updated/gutted/whatever, you enact those changes after an election that is about to take place during a global pandemic.
It's like trying to take away health care that covers pre-existing conditions from millions of Americans during a global pandemic -- an unnecessary, cruel, self-serving, evil act that the president also is trying to do.
I know there are policy issues pushed by this president that can be defended -- his obsessive support of the 2nd Amendment, his anti-abortion rhetoric, his trade wars, etc. I happen to disagree with some of those, but I understand why others defend them.
I don't see how any American can defend gutting the U.S. Postal Service just months before this most unique election in our nation's history.
They/he know/knows the game, they/he doesnt/don't care. Awkward, D-.
It's just an intentional foul to them, it's strategic to win.
It's like the Wisconsin player running around punching people in the jewels.
They know it's wrong, they don't care.
It's their only play at this point.
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Dear Typical St Louis person,
If this is a union poly, why are physical mailboxes being removed by the hundreds?
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USPS annual costs $9 billion.
Total U.S. annual budget $4.79 trillion.
Let's take a look at the pie chart below:
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To clear the record:
1) I voted by mail in Florida for our primary. It is Tuesday. I voted over a month ago to be sure my ballot arrived on time. It did because I can monitor it on the county supervisor of elections website. If you are going to vote by mail, the system works. You just have to mail your ballot in early enough to ensure counting.
2) It is not partisan, by a long shot. In fact, I doubt you have any idea who I voted for President over my life. You would be surprised.
3) I am in favor of overhauling government procurement, regardless of agency. Yeah, I am just as aggravated by defense procurement that goes billions over budget as I am at the postal service. I would like to see pay to troops raised significantly and post-service health care improved, as our soldiers, sailors and airmen are doing the toughest job in this country. If it comes at the cost of multi-billion dollar defense systems, so be it. I used to work as a Director of Financial Analysis for Amtrak and I have come to the belief that Amtrak should be gassed and replaced, where necessary. Amtrak is like the Postal Service, a Government Sponsored Enterprise or GSE (which also includes Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, both of which also should be privatized and the government should be out of mortgage lending), that has a economic objective for a political mission. It does not work. You are either one or the other.
4) Before you start regulating what you call corporate greed, are you prepared to regulate how much you can earn in your 401(k) or pension, if you have one? Millions of Americans benefit from corporate profits through 401(k)s, IRAs, Pensions and direct market investment. If you have a pension, the money to support your retirement payments for the rest of your life has to come from somewhere. Your 401(k) and whatever you get in Social Security has to carry you to your death. Higher corporate profits means a better retirement.
To go back to the Postal Service, nobody at a GSE gets compensated for taking risk that will alienate politicians. You lay off 100 postal workers somewhere as part of an efficiency or out-sourcing program and I promise you will never hear the end of it. Unless Congress tells the Postal Service NO and orders them to be efficient and improve operations (including outsourcing), they wont. They will be back playing on fears of vote suppression to gain more appropriations.
With all due respect:
1.) I agree, vote early.
2.) I might be suprised, but I don't care. My history of voting over the years has been very eclectic. As I have grown, I have changed.
3.) Not so easy.
Government procurement is very complex, as Trump said about health care insurance, who knew?
Major weapon ststems take decades, they start contracting before they have the cutting edge technology even nailed down. Costing of technology that has not been developed is beyond difficult. They are just budget estimates. I have know major weapon system project managers, they have teams of very smart people working these issues for decades.
I use the V.A., no problem. In some respects they are cutting edge because they have mega data to work with. Lots of willing subjects. I also use concierge medicine, it can sometimes leave a lot to be desired. I use the Italian health care system, very interesting. In many respects better than ours. For example, they use less meds..
Amtrack, now we are talking policy. Problem is nobody wants to talk policy, just ideology and culture wars. Europe has solved the problem of mass transit high speed trains. We never will because of the auto, aircraft, oil, even rubber lobby. Our culture does not value the common good, we value individual rights. Therefore, no national high speed rail service.
You can talk unions, taxes, politics, costing of right of way maintenance, whatever, but national rail will never happen in our life time. No will.
Privatizing the GSE's is totally ideology. The sharp people have found a way to make millions off Fanny, Freddy etc..
You failed to mention deregulation, it goes along with privatization, totally ideology. Sure, deregulate the banks, FAA, FDA, SEC, and what do you have? Another Enron, S&L debacle, stock market bubble and crash, MAX 8, Madoff, or Florida investment advisor scams.
4.) Yes I have 401(k)'s, trust funds, pensions, reale estate, S.S., stocks, C.D.'s, and T bills and bonds. I don't leverage. No more putts and calls, day trading, financial advisors, life insurance, get rich quick schemes.
You make a case for the ownership society. The same economic philosophy as the trickle down economy. Same unfounded ideology. Risk has been transfered from the corporations to the uninformed, uneducated workers. The so-called financial advisors aren't much better, if not worse in a self serving way. And I won't even broach fees.
I understand most people have to rationalize there situation, actuarial science notwithstanding.
Long term rate of return (like gravity), fiduciary responsibility, mortality, morbidity, comutation, all out the window.
Now we play on the ego of the "informed" investor. Buyer be ware, "it is what it is". We create a pseudoscience of investing and a worship of Wall Street where greed is god.
Finally let me close in agreement that the left is being hyperbolic also.
The P.O. is efficient, and has been over politicized. It is more like the Military than not. They were the first to use the airlines for freight. They really created the airline industry as we know it. They still use air cargo, UPS, Fedex in a big way. They use automation, high speed readers and sorters, and have even tried retail sales of cards, boxes, stamps, etc.. Not unlike defense conversion (rip stop nylon, tubless tires, night vision, heads up display, jet engines, noise canceling headphones, emergency medical procedures, radar, global positioning, paints and coatings, game theory, microminiaturization, simulators), in fact our entire modern civilization.
Think the private sector did all that if you wish, but know they capitalised on government RD&D.
It is easy to come up with simple bumper sticker solutions like ,Government is the problem not the solution, another to come up with solutions to complex problems.
Sleep well, good night.
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USPS annual costs $9 billion.
Total U.S. annual budget $4.79 trillion.
Let's take a look at the pie chart below:
Yep. Billions of dollars could be found - in the Pentagon budget, as it turned out - to build a wall that we had been told 1000 times Mexico would pay for.
Indeed, some of the money, intended for schools on bases, was stolen from military families.
But not a penny can be found to protect the votes of Americans during a global pandemic.