Vaccine/Antibody updates

[forgetful]

Some pretty strong side effects from vaccine.

https://crooksandliars.com/2020/11/doctors-urge-cdc-admit-side-effects

They absolutely need to be upfront and honest about the side effects. Some people may choose they don't want to vaccinate, but at least they were honest, and gave the person a choice.

If they aren't honest, word will get out about the severity of side effects, and a lot of people will feel like they were lied to and risks were hidden. Feeling like you were lied to will fuel conspiracy theories, and could lead to A LOT of people forgoing a vaccine.

[Jockey]

They absolutely need to be upfront and honest about the side effects. Some people may choose they don't want to vaccinate, but at least they were honest, and gave the person a choice.

If they aren't honest, word will get out about the severity of side effects, and a lot of people will feel like they were lied to and risks were hidden. Feeling like you were lied to will fuel conspiracy theories, and could lead to A LOT of people forgoing a vaccine.

Exactly. Well said.

[jesmu84]

They absolutely need to be upfront and honest about the side effects. Some people may choose they don't want to vaccinate, but at least they were honest, and gave the person a choice.

If they aren't honest, word will get out about the severity of side effects, and a lot of people will feel like they were lied to and risks were hidden. Feeling like you were lied to will fuel conspiracy theories, and could lead to A LOT of people forgoing a vaccine.

Honesty and transparency with mucho dinero on the line?? Ya. Right.

[GooooMarquette]

Some pretty strong side effects from vaccine.

https://crooksandliars.com/2020/11/doctors-urge-cdc-admit-side-effects

The press releases from the companies certainly did not make the side effects sound that distressing. I can’t ever remember feeling bad enough to take a day off work after a vaccination. Granted, it sounds far less troublesome than Covid does, but people need to hear what they should expect.

If it really is that bad and they don’t do a better job of publicizing it, I fear two consequences: (1) people will not come back for their second dose, as indicated in the article; and (2) people who are further down the queue might not even come in for their first dose. Obviously, both of those things would be problematic.

[Jockey]

The press releases from the companies certainly did not make the side effects sound that distressing. I can’t ever remember feeling bad enough to take a day off work after a vaccination. Granted, it sounds far less troublesome than Covid does, but people need to hear what they should expect.

If it really is that bad and they don’t do a better job of publicizing it, I fear two consequences: (1) people will not come back for their second dose, as indicated in the article; and (2) people who are further down the queue might not even come in for their first dose. Obviously, both of those things would be problematic.

I think there will be a lot more trust in the future when the government talks about Covid and the vaccine.

[MU82]

The 260K dead Americans ... the hundreds of thousands of permanently closed businesses ... the millions upon millions of unemployed ... the emperor doesn't care about any of those.

Here is what he cares about:

“Don’t let Joe Biden take credit for the vaccine. Don’t let him take credit for the vaccines, because the vaccines were me."

[4everwarriors]

Fact doe, hey?

[Uncle Rico]

The 260K dead Americans ... the hundreds of thousands of permanently closed businesses ... the millions upon millions of unemployed ... the emperor doesn't care about any of those.

Here is what he cares about:

“Don’t let Joe Biden take credit for the vaccine. Don’t let him take credit for the vaccines, because the vaccines were me."

Give Diaper Don a break.  Did you see that desk?  Tiny hands, tiny desk

[MU82]

Fact doe, hey?

Sure. As long as your emperor takes "credit" for all the deaths, lost jobs and closed businesses, too.

Hey.

[tower912]

If he wants credit for something he didn't actively lead, ok.   Thanks for doing the bare minimum and staying out of the way of the scientists.   Should have listened to more of them.

[MU82]

Obviously, Obama gets 100% of the credit for the stock market continuing to rise these last 4 years ... even if it didn't rise quite as high, percentage-wise, as it did during his 8 years in office.

"Don’t let Don Trump take credit for the stock market. Don’t let him take credit for the stock market, because the stock market was me."

[forgetful]

I'm really worried about the vaccine roll-out. The logistics for who to prioritize, and how to deliver the vaccine to those groups has been left up to the States, and it is a monumental task. As of right now, sufficient funds to do this hasn't been provided to them, nor has suitable resources to implement and execute a vaccination process as difficult as this will be.

With limited vaccines, and such a dire situation, this needs to have all the leg work and planning already done, with supplies, and a delivery apparatus at the local level already established and waiting. I fear we are far from that, particularly in rural, and poor areas hard hit by this virus.

[Jockey]

Give Diaper Don a break.  Did you see that desk?  Tiny hands, tiny desk

I’m guessing he will be on NPR for one of their Tiny Desk concerts soon. Don’t know if he will be able to wrap those tiny fingers all of the way around the guitar neck, though.

[rocky_warrior]

Ahem...the past few posts have not been productive...

[Jockey]

Ahem...the past few posts have not been productive...

Scoop is supposed to be productive?

Who knew?

[mu_hilltopper]

Scoop is supposed to be productive?

Who knew?

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

You are saying you don't trust the antibodies developed through the virus.   Is it the strength or the duration that concerns you?

Tower I saw this today and thought it could be helpful for you. 

https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1333445089243373569?s=21

[Johnny B]

Is it crazy to think there may not be full capacity crowds allowed next season? Alot of people arent getting the vaccine no matter what.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

It’s nuts to look at this timeline and see the moderna vaccine was designed in mid-Jan with the NIH and in testing already in March.  Just unbelievable to think of the speed with this new technology. 

https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1332771238771630080?s=21

[GooooMarquette]

It’s nuts to look at this timeline and see the moderna vaccine was designed in mid-Jan with the NIH and in testing already in March.  Just unbelievable to think of the speed with this new technology. 

https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1332771238771630080?s=21

Agreed. Part of the credit goes to the Trump Administration for implementing OWS (the one truly beneficial thing he has done during the pandemic), but we are also fortunate that companies have developed mRNA technology, which allows for more rapid development of vaccines without the inherent risks of actually injecting live or attenuated viruses into people.

#keepsciencing

[jesmu84]

Agreed. Part of the credit goes to the Trump Administration for implementing OWS (the one truly beneficial thing he has done during the pandemic), but we are also fortunate that companies have developed mRNA technology, which allows for more rapid development of vaccines without the inherent risks of actually injecting live or attenuated viruses into people.

#keepsciencing

1 downside to the new technology is the unknown long-term risk

[GooooMarquette]

1 downside to the new technology is the unknown long-term risk

Agreed. In theory, there are reasons to believe long-term effects will be less common and severe than with viral vaccines, but in practice we never know for sure until it is tried.

Fortunately, by the time most of us get access to the vaccine (likely May or June if you are <65 and otherwise relatively healthy), it will have been nearly a year since participants got the vaccine in the Phase 2 studies. While that doesn't eliminate the possibility that there could be side effects that take many months or years to develop, it still tells us about the vast majority of likely side effects.

Not perfect, but still pretty good in the midst of a pandemic....

[forgetful]

It’s nuts to look at this timeline and see the moderna vaccine was designed in mid-Jan with the NIH and in testing already in March.  Just unbelievable to think of the speed with this new technology. 

https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1332771238771630080?s=21

There is a lot more to this than just the timeline reported here.

What is key is that back under Bush, he recognized the need to prepare for a pandemic, particularly in technology for rapid vaccine development, which he funded. That led to some of the first uses of new vaccine technology in 2003 for SARS. At that time, they were able to go from sequence information to a testable vaccine in 20-months (technology very crude still). By that time, the SARS virus was gone. But those vaccines have been tested and optimized in animal studies for the past 17 years.

Obama took Bush's mantle and expanded investment in new vaccine technology, particularly pushing forward mRNA based approaches which were proving successful in animal studies, and had the capacity to be rolled out in extremely fast timescales ($25M investment to drive Moderna's research into mRNA technology). That investment is what built the infrastructure that the current vaccines are built off of.

You also have massive investments by the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations (CEPI) (really emerged from Bush's focus on protecting the US from Pandemic's and Biowarfare), focusing on this technology.

So technically we went from recognizing this to a vaccine in roughly 12-months, but the ground work, technology development, testing and optimization against SARS has been going on for 17-years. In January, everything was already in place and ready to get this done, all that really needed to be done was get the DNA sequence, and get out of the way of science.

Side note. The importance of a president who likes to read. Much of this was spurred by George Bush reading an advanced copy of "The Great Influenza" by John M. Barry during a vacation, and then him reading more on vaccine technology and how out of date it was. In some regards, having a president who loved to read is now saving lives.

[GooooMarquette]

forgetful - you are right that Bush, Obama and many diligent scientists deserve the lion’s share of credit for getting it to the point where Moderna, Pfizer/Biontech and others can even dream of an mRNA vaccine.

Kudos to those who laid the groundwork for making this even remotely possible.

Hopefully that will not get lost in a diatribe started by by one man trying to take credit for the entire thing.

[Warriors4ever]

Very interesting background explanation, thank you.
I read that book too. Plus American Experience did an episode on it some years ago.