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Author Topic: Vaccine/Antibody updates  (Read 21675 times)

mu_hilltopper

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #525 on: November 19, 2020, 10:57:18 AM »
From NYT:

Dr. Anthony Fauci said that at least 75 percent of society would need to take the Covid-19 vaccine, even if it had 95 percent efficacy, before it was safe to stop wearing masks and social distancing.

Did he explain that better?

I mean .. say my family gets the vaccine, two shots, and yeah, wait a month for it to reach full efficacy.

We could be exposed to the virus and our immune system would fight it with ~90% effectiveness.   Pretty good odds we don't get sick, nor spread the virus further.

What would be the purpose for wearing masks after a full dose of the vaccine?

Skatastrophy

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #526 on: November 19, 2020, 11:04:24 AM »
Did he explain that better?

I mean .. say my family gets the vaccine, two shots, and yeah, wait a month for it to reach full efficacy.

We could be exposed to the virus and our immune system would fight it with ~90% effectiveness.   Pretty good odds we don't get sick, nor spread the virus further.

What would be the purpose for wearing masks after a full dose of the vaccine?

I think the misunderstanding is that you still get sick when you have a vaccine, your body just knows how to fight off the infection. You can still be an asymptomatic spreader if you're vaccinated.

Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #527 on: November 19, 2020, 11:50:40 AM »
I think the misunderstanding is that you still get sick when you have a vaccine, your body just knows how to fight off the infection. You can still be an asymptomatic spreader if you're vaccinated.

Isn't more that they don't know if you can be an asymptomatic spreader versus "you can...".

Hopefully they study this with the trial group and have a stronger POV by the time everyone is lining up for the vaccine.

Skatastrophy

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #528 on: November 19, 2020, 01:49:31 PM »
Isn't more that they don't know if you can be an asymptomatic spreader versus "you can...".

Hopefully they study this with the trial group and have a stronger POV by the time everyone is lining up for the vaccine.

You're right, the vaccine could be 100% effective. Unlikely but possible.

Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #529 on: November 19, 2020, 01:57:30 PM »
You're right, the vaccine could be 100% effective. Unlikely but possible.

I see what you were implying.  I was referring to people within the 90%.  I’ve read that they don’t know yet if they can spread. 

Jockey

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #530 on: November 21, 2020, 11:44:06 AM »
I think we all agree that medical professionals and 1st responders should be the first to get the vaccine. But, then who is next?

Should we vaccinate the most vulnerable (elderly, those with pre-existing conditions, etc.) or might it be better to vaccinate those who are spreading the disease (18-30 years old) first?

I tend toward the vulnerable, but understand the other argument as well. I think the thing that seals the argument for me is that the vulnerable will be much, much easier to vaccinate.

4everwarriors

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #531 on: November 21, 2020, 12:02:32 PM »
Pretty sure those incarcerated at next in line, hey?
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pbiflyer

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #532 on: November 21, 2020, 12:03:48 PM »
Educators next?
Elderly so they can enjoy time left on this mortal coil?
Anti maskers? Very last people in line.

tower912

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #533 on: November 21, 2020, 12:07:07 PM »
If you have had it, do you give up your place in line?   I know I am going to be offered the vaccine in the next 3 months.  Will the vaccine double down on protection?    Which will provide longer protection?

My instinct is to move back in the line. 
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forgetful

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #534 on: November 21, 2020, 01:29:51 PM »
If you have had it, do you give up your place in line?   I know I am going to be offered the vaccine in the next 3 months.  Will the vaccine double down on protection?    Which will provide longer protection?

My instinct is to move back in the line.

I thought about this before, actually had a post related to it that I changed to nm.

I think in an ideal world, we would test everyone for antibodies before vaccination. If you have a prior positive test in the last 6-months, or antibodies indicating a previous infection, do not vaccinate now. Place priority on others. That way we can get to herd immunity faster.

The problem with this is two fold. 1) What about false positive tests in either prior infection, or antibodies. 2) We know people can be infected a 2nd time, and we do not know about the added benefit of the vaccine on top of prior infections. It may be prudent to vaccinate them again.

A third aspect. Has the vaccine's safety been tested in people with prior infections? I don't think issues would be likely, but I also don't think we can know for certain until it has been tested.

Retire0

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #535 on: November 21, 2020, 02:11:52 PM »
Educators should be next up after healthcare and emergency services.
New TallTitan bold prediction: Sacar Anim will play in more NBA games than Markus Howard.

TallTitan's bold prediction of Davante Gardner being drafted in 2014.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27259.msg310060;topicseen#new

reinko

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #536 on: November 21, 2020, 02:13:09 PM »
My 40 year old self in good health ain’t getting shizz until like July.

pbiflyer

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #537 on: November 21, 2020, 02:13:34 PM »
If you have had it, do you give up your place in line?   I know I am going to be offered the vaccine in the next 3 months.  Will the vaccine double down on protection?    Which will provide longer protection?

My instinct is to move back in the line.

I have not gotten an antibody test because it likely would not have made a difference in my behavior.
I may have had it early on before testing was available.
You bring up a really good reason to pull the trigger on a test now though. Will look into it.

GooooMarquette

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #538 on: November 21, 2020, 02:36:17 PM »
Educators should be next up after healthcare and emergency services.


I think the first after healthcare and emergency services should be the less obvious 'essential' workers who really are essential for our basic day-to-day survival, like grocery store clerks, food production and delivery personnel, people who maintain our utilities, etc.

Educators are critically important for society and should be in the next group, but they aren't as immediately necessary for our basic day-to-day survival as people who give us access to food, water, heat, etc.

 

Retire0

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #539 on: November 21, 2020, 03:26:50 PM »

I think the first after healthcare and emergency services should be the less obvious 'essential' workers who really are essential for our basic day-to-day survival, like grocery store clerks, food production and delivery personnel, people who maintain our utilities, etc.

Educators are critically important for society and should be in the next group, but they aren't as immediately necessary for our basic day-to-day survival as people who give us access to food, water, heat, etc.

 

Nah. Education.

You can shop while distancing with masks and be safe.
New TallTitan bold prediction: Sacar Anim will play in more NBA games than Markus Howard.

TallTitan's bold prediction of Davante Gardner being drafted in 2014.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27259.msg310060;topicseen#new

injuryBug

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #540 on: November 21, 2020, 03:36:11 PM »
Nah. Education.

You can shop while distancing with masks and be safe.

How much spread has been in schools by teachers?  My wife is an elementary teacher.  There has been no psread that she knows of in school.  All come from outside activities (dance teams going to tournaments and hanging out with several other teams inside for 6-8 hours).

Hopefully the research is being done to figure this out.  Maybe it is teachers and our district is the exception.
Whatever it is it will be good to start getting people vaccinated and getting back to normal slowly

GooooMarquette

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #541 on: November 21, 2020, 03:58:08 PM »
Nah. Education.

You can shop while distancing with masks and be safe.



You can teach with masks and social distancing too. And you can also survive for a few months without in-person learning, but you can't without food and clean water.

I have HUGE respect for educators - my wife works in the local public school system - and I understand the critical long-term importance of education. But if we are going to prioritize based on necessity, we should start with the functions we need just to get by from day to day. Healthcare, emergency workers, food, clean water, electricity.

Skatastrophy

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #542 on: November 21, 2020, 04:24:36 PM »
How much spread has been in schools by teachers?  My wife is an elementary teacher.  There has been no psread that she knows of in school.  All come from outside activities (dance teams going to tournaments and hanging out with several other teams inside for 6-8 hours).

Hopefully the research is being done to figure this out.  Maybe it is teachers and our district is the exception.
Whatever it is it will be good to start getting people vaccinated and getting back to normal slowly

Here's a post from earlier this month in the K-12 thread.

Studies are finally coming out that state the obvious: Schools reopening is dramatically increasing the R0 of coronavirus when analyzing the impact of 790 'phases' across 131 countries

> Reopening schools was associated with a 24-per-cent increase in R after 28 days, although the researchers cautioned they were unable to account for different precautions some countries implemented for reopening schools, such as limiting class sizes, social distancing, cleaning, personal hygiene, face masks, and temperature checks.

The article: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/coronavirus-r-rate-school-closures-lockdown-lancet-study-b1251617.html

The study: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30785-4/fulltext

forgetful

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #543 on: November 21, 2020, 04:34:28 PM »

I think the first after healthcare and emergency services should be the less obvious 'essential' workers who really are essential for our basic day-to-day survival, like grocery store clerks, food production and delivery personnel, people who maintain our utilities, etc.

Educators are critically important for society and should be in the next group, but they aren't as immediately necessary for our basic day-to-day survival as people who give us access to food, water, heat, etc.

But those people are really just minimum wage workers, they should just be happy they have jobs.

Not to mention, what are their supervisors supposed to bet on if the COVID risk decreases?



...this doesn't actually need teal does it?

Warriors4ever

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #544 on: November 21, 2020, 04:35:17 PM »
I can shop with a mask and distance and be reasonably safe. But the workers have to deal with the anti-maskers and those who won’t distance for whatever reason, plus they are in the environment all day. You cannot compare shoppers with workers.

Jockey

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #545 on: November 21, 2020, 06:03:33 PM »
But those people are really just minimum wage workers, they should just be happy they have jobs.

Not to mention, what are their supervisors supposed to bet on if the COVID risk decreases?



...this doesn't actually need teal does it?

A great post (until you added the rider at the end). ;)

If people are unable to recognize snark and/or sarcasm, it’s their problem - not yours.

GooooMarquette

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #546 on: November 22, 2020, 03:19:15 PM »
A new Gallup poll shows Americans' willingness to get Covid vaccine is increasing...from 50% in September to 58% in late October. And this was before Pfizer and Moderna both showed high effectiveness and a low level of side effects.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/325208/americans-willing-covid-vaccine.aspx

There are probably lots of reasons for the increase, from the fall surge to the economic toll of the pandemic. For me though, it's largely two things: (1) the fact that the companies seem to be following a more realistic timeline than the ones hailed by the Administration a few months ago (respecting science over politics?); and (2) the fact that two companies making the same type of vaccine (both Pfizer and Moderna use mRNA) showed very similar results.

It also helps that the rollout will be more gradual than the Administration predicted...meaning that average, relatively healthy middle aged guys like me probably won't have access until late spring or early summer. By then, researchers will know even more about possible long-term side effects, since it will be several months post-vaccination for the clinical trial participants.

tower912

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #547 on: November 22, 2020, 04:00:43 PM »
Discussed with my 13 YO while hiking in the woods the philosophical and ethical issues of whether I should get the vaccine early or move to the back of the line.  He immediately said that I should go to the end of the line.   He rightly points out that in 6-8 months it will be like getting a booster.   

Raising another smart one.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

4everwarriors

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #548 on: November 22, 2020, 04:42:58 PM »
Fahrenheit, my ass is takin' dat vaccine da furst moment itz available ta mee, hey?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

MU82

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #549 on: November 22, 2020, 04:45:36 PM »
A new Gallup poll shows Americans' willingness to get Covid vaccine is increasing...from 50% in September to 58% in late October. And this was before Pfizer and Moderna both showed high effectiveness and a low level of side effects.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/325208/americans-willing-covid-vaccine.aspx

There are probably lots of reasons for the increase, from the fall surge to the economic toll of the pandemic. For me though, it's largely two things: (1) the fact that the companies seem to be following a more realistic timeline than the ones hailed by the Administration a few months ago (respecting science over politics?); and (2) the fact that two companies making the same type of vaccine (both Pfizer and Moderna use mRNA) showed very similar results.

It also helps that the rollout will be more gradual than the Administration predicted...meaning that average, relatively healthy middle aged guys like me probably won't have access until late spring or early summer. By then, researchers will know even more about possible long-term side effects, since it will be several months post-vaccination for the clinical trial participants.

This is good news. Thanks for posting.
“None of these steps we’re asking people to take are political statements. Every one of them is based on science, real science. ... I know the country has grown weary of the fight. We need to remember we’re at war with the virus, not with one another.”

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